The Jewish Annotated New Testament-Amy-Jill Levine/Marc Brettler

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jul 26 2012 4:44 PM

I think the notes from this work would provide a great perspective:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Jewish-Annotated-New-Testament/dp/0195297709/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0

 

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Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2012 5:33 PM

Yes, I just read the review at Review of Biblical Literature here.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

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Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2012 5:45 PM

While we're at it, let's get their Jewish Study Bible in as well.

(I've been requesting both of these for some time...)

 

Ben

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2012 5:52 PM

Ben:

While we're at it, let's get their Jewish Study Bible in as well.

(I've been requesting both of these for some time...)

 Ben

Yes

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2012 5:54 PM

Eric Weiss:

Yes, I just read the review at Review of Biblical Literature here.

Funny, that is where I saw it as well just a little while ago.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 3:33 AM

Lots of us have asked for this lots of times. Unfortunately it's from OUP, which Logos doesn't seem able to contract anything from these days. 

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 6:37 AM

Only commenting based on fgh's point, I have both this and the Jewish Study Bible. This one has some interesting comments, though nothing that might surprise you. It's in my closet, having read it (not a repeated use kind of resource). The mishnah/Talmud connects are interesting. The discussions where there's a dissonance are quite calm (i.e. the commenters could have 'gone to town' if they'd wanted to, but didn't). Just my own guesswork but I suspect they recognized there's just not a lot of 'data' from the 1st century and so not a lot to go on as to exactly where Jesus fit (and so quotes from either before or after).

But the Jewish Study Bible has a much more (OT based of course). The notes are not the depth you see in JPS commentaries, but the points quite often raise your eyebrows with a different perspective. One that I was so surprised about, I brought up in Bible class at church. And our pastor didn't blink; said yes, that's probably correct (I won't say WHAT!).  So everyone else in class had to raise their eyebrows too.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 7:13 AM

DMB:

And our pastor didn't blink; said yes, that's probably correct (I won't say WHAT!).  So everyone else in class had to raise their eyebrows too.

I actually have the Jewish Study Bible, and I do like it a lot.  You are correct not to post the quote, as it would probably send this thread into a tailspin, but I would be appreciative if you would give me the verse so that I can look it up.  This seems very intriguing!

As for the authors of the Jewish New Testament Study Bible, I really like Amy-Jill Levine.  I got to see her once at New Orleans Baptist Seminary's Greer-Heard Lectures, where she and Ben Witherington III seemed close, and right after that she came to speak in Birmingham.  One of the most profound things that she said was that when you are born Jewish, you don't have a problem with debating about issues of the Bible because you don't have to worry about anyone saying that you are no longer Jewish.  This presents a free market of ideas and healthy interpretive debate.  In Christianity, sometimes if you question the status quo then your Christianity will come into question by some, and this often times stifles healthy debate and learning.  She also has a great sense of humor!

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Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 7:19 AM

Joseph Turner:

DMB:

And our pastor didn't blink; said yes, that's probably correct (I won't say WHAT!).  So everyone else in class had to raise their eyebrows too.

 

I actually have the Jewish Study Bible, and I do like it a lot.  You are correct not to post the quote, as it would probably send this thread into a tailspin, but I would be appreciative if you would give me the verse so that I can look it up.  This seems very intriguing!

As for the authors of the Jewish New Testament Study Bible, I really like Amy-Jill Levine.  I got to see her once at New Orleans Baptist Seminary's Greer-Heard Lectures, where she and Ben Witherington III seemed close, and right after that she came to speak in Birmingham.  One of the most profound things that she said was that when you are born Jewish, you don't have a problem with debating about issues of the Bible because you don't have to worry about anyone saying that you are no longer Jewish.  This presents a free market of ideas and healthy interpretive debate.  In Christianity, sometimes if you question the status quo then your Christianity will come into question by some, and this often times stifles healthy debate and learning.  She also has a great sense of humor!

I have the JPS Study Bible, too. PLEASE post the reference to the quote (book-chapter-verse, or which supplementary article it's in) so I can read it, too. THANKS! Stick out tongue

 

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 7:58 AM

I couldn't find the statement; it was in the pre-Exodus account that we were studying at the time. But it was pretty heavy-duty, especially when one looks at later  Ephesians' and its possible use of the Psalms Targum.

But while I was looking, the Jewish Study Bible has quite a number of interesting statements (not controverisal):

Exodus 5. 5: This v. is best understood on the assumption that the Samaritan reading ("m'm" instead of MT "'m") is correct: Pharaoh claims that the Israelites already outnumber the Egyptians, and if they cease their labors they will increase even more-- the very thing he sought to prevent by enslaving them (1. 9- 14).

I'm fascinated with the connectivity between the DSS Biblical scrolls and the Samaritan Torah.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 8:13 AM

DMB:

I couldn't find the statement; it was in the pre-Exodus account that we were studying at the time. But it was pretty heavy-duty, especially when one looks at later  Ephesians' and its possible use of the Psalms Targum.

But while I was looking, the Jewish Study Bible has quite a number of interesting statements (not controverisal):

Exodus 5. 5: This v. is best understood on the assumption that the Samaritan reading ("m'm" instead of MT "'m") is correct: Pharaoh claims that the Israelites already outnumber the Egyptians, and if they cease their labors they will increase even more-- the very thing he sought to prevent by enslaving them (1. 9- 14).

I'm fascinated with the connectivity between the DSS Biblical scrolls and the Samaritan Torah.

Are you referring to Psalm 68:18 (68:19 Hebrew; 67:19 LXX) "You received gifts by/among men" versus Paul's "He gave gifts to men" in Ephesians 4:8?

Can you at least summarize the "heavy duty" statement - if not here, you can leave me a Comment at the link from my name. Thanks!

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 10:39 AM

I am curious as well, but I don't want to put you on the spot.

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Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 11:06 AM

At the risk of sounding like the red-headed kid who walks up late to the conversation and blurts out the obvious, is it correct to make the following assumptions about these two resources?  They are written by accomplished scholars who for the most part are practicing Jews and non of whom are Christian by traditional definition and which resources would be good for background and a viewpoint free from western gentile presumptions, but care would be needed in using as far as actual interpretation of the text. No antisemitic overtones intended. 

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 12:33 PM

Jerry M:
free from western gentile presumptions

Their scholarly assumptions are similar to other Western scholars; their knowledge which they use for understanding includes early Jewish works - an area that few Christian scholars have chosen to learn as intimately.

Jerry M:
care would be needed in using as far as actual interpretation of the text.

No more so than any other scholar's work. It seems to me that this is more of a problem in the OT where the Jews read the Hebrew scriptures through the lens of Jewish history and Christians read them through the lens of the Cross.

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 12:35 PM

Jerry M:

At the risk of sounding like the red-headed kid who walks up late to the conversation and blurts out the obvious, is it correct to make the following assumptions about these two resources?  They are written by accomplished scholars who for the most part are practicing Jews and non of whom are Christian by traditional definition and which resources would be good for background and a viewpoint free from western gentile presumptions, but care would be needed in using as far as actual interpretation of the text. No antisemitic overtones intended. 

 

Yes, I think you are correct.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 1:43 PM

Jerry ... I think you pointed out the obvious ... who among the Logos users know even a handful of the writers, for resources in Logos? Modern or a century ago?

Most learn by reading.

This is most obvious when someone tries to get a handle on 'which commentary set', much less which commentary book. Forum members just muddle around with 'kind of ' answers since it's not clear what the questioner is even looking for.

Then, as a last gasp, they point to the conservative site for the commentary ratings. Ah yes.

And so we say the writer is not 'one of us'.

Well, that makes it a whole lot easier. Of course all the writers in the NT were jewish but what would jews know, then or now?

Oh yes, no antisemic overtones intended.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 1:49 PM

I didn't take Jerry's comments that way.  I like these for their history of interpretation.  I like the Jewish historical perspective.  I took Jerry's comments to mean that a Christian reader would obviously have fundamental disagreements concerning Jesus.  Maybe I read my own opinion into his comments.

Ultimately, the Jewish perspective, which is the perspective that everyone who lived with Jesus would have had, is important for the history of interpretation, particularly concerning the OT commentary.

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Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 2:39 PM

DMB:
And so we say the writer is not 'one of us'.
I look to the book of Ruth to find ways that Jew and Gentile relationships can be mended, and I believe that healing will come.  Along those same lines I take my identity in Christ and not in a denomination.  But in both cases I hope not to portray any air of superiority.  Of course division will come, because God has and will elevate His children, but that is up to Him, not me.  I don't have either of these books, but from what I have seen, I would join the chorus to gladly see them in the Logos library.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2012 2:53 PM

Jerry M:
At the risk of sounding like the red-headed kid who walks up late to the conversation and blurts out the obvious

Whisper Be careful what you say about redheads around here. Jack might hear you. Big Smile

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 1:50 AM

Joseph,

in light of the disclaimer footnote to all your posts, let me comment on apart of your sentence that didn't sit well with me, especially as it seems to establish a very spurious truth-claim for fact - I'm rather sure you didn't mean it that way, but couldn't let this pass uncommented.

Joseph Turner:
Ultimately, the Jewish perspective, which is the perspective that everyone who lived with Jesus would have had, is important for the history of interpretation, particularly concerning the OT commentary.

I'm 100% d'accord with your proposition "Ultimately, the Jewish perspective ... is important for the history of interpretation, particularly concerning the OT commentary." 

But "the Jewish perspective, which is the perspective that everyone who lived with Jesus would have had" is something that makes my neck-hairs stand up for the following reasons:

 

  • there is no one "Jewish perspective". Jews themselves apply the saying "three Jews four opinions" which is otherwise often used for lawyers. There are multiple Jewish perspectives in the plural, some of which may have been shared by some Jews in the first centuries. 
  • at the time when Jesus lived, there were multiple schools of ideas, like the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes... We know the different Jewish perspectives they had from some surviving manuscripts (Qumran) , descriptions in the Gospels, Josephus...  but in most cases not in an exhaustive manner. Only the Pharisees as a group survived the destruction of Jerusalem.
  • Jewish perspectives evolved over the hundreds of years between Jesus' time and today. Especially the situation that Christianity, which (as observed from the outside) started as a Jewish sect, competed with the Jews for the same group of people and later on overtook the whole Roman empire and started to marginalize the Jews, led to changes in the "Jewish perspective" - basically it seems that some held/hold it for a valid exegetical principle that if Christians read Meaning A in the OT, Jewish reading may be anything but A (however unlikely). I can to a certain extent understand how such things come about, but I don't agree with this.
  • Jewish perspectives we read today have been shaped by Medieval scholasticism, Enlightenment, Modernism etc and the discussions about embracing these ways of thinking or defending against them. Thus they to a certain extent are far removed from the perspective of near-eastern population in the first century.
  • Especially the question of Messianic aspects in Jewish exegesis is highly debated, but it seems that some contemporary Jews rather downplay this perspective, but there may be no conclusive view on what "everyone who lived with Jesus" held in this regard.

 

 

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