Logos Is Too Expensive

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This post has 406 Replies | 11 Followers

Posts 302
JPH | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 10 2012 9:37 AM

George Somsel:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/convert-pdf-converter.html

most public domains are scanned not created from from docs, so even adobe conversion is mediocre at best.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 10 2012 9:50 AM

John Harrigan:

George Somsel:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/convert-pdf-converter.html

most public domains are scanned not created from from docs, so even adobe conversion is mediocre at best.

Perhaps.  I once had PDF files for Hermann Gunkel's Schöpfung und Chaos which I was considering translating, but I soon found that the OCR software couldn't handle the fraktur type which had been used for the book so that major text-critical work would have been necessary to first get a readable German text before translating it into English.  I was glad to hear of another translation of the work.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9
Angel Watson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 1:19 AM

We really aren't talking about one Christian helping another.  We are talking about a Christian business which needs to make a profit in order to be able to continue in business and offer the products they have chosen to produce.  If they can't pay the help, the rent, the utilities, etc. and come out with a few $$ left over they won't be around a few years (or less) down the road. 

Posts 383
Stephen Thorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 2:41 AM

This thread has become rather long, but I'd like to say two things.

Firstly, I'd like to say that although I think Logos is expensive it's also probably a fair price. One may have to dig deep but you simply can't get a product as good as Logos anywhere else! Perhaps Logos could review their prices and see how they could make it a bit more affordable. The payment plans are a good way forward, but I would like to see the administration charge scrapped. Gift tokens would be good and last year's Christmas Credit was a brilliant idea.

Secondly, there seems in some quarters a little bit of snobbery when it comes to the lower priced packages. Yes, I am biblically trained and a serving pastor, but the Leaders Package has served me exceptionally well over the years and I have naturally added to my resources, but telling me that as a leader and academic I shouldn't have any thing less than Scholars is not only insulting but ridiculous. Naturally, one would like to have the biggest package there is, but ultimately one simply has to go with what one can afford. 

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 5:09 AM

Stephen Thorp:
Secondly, there seems in some quarters a little bit of snobbery when it comes to the lower priced packages. Yes, I am biblically trained and a serving pastor, but the Leaders Package has served me exceptionally well over the years and I have naturally added to my resources
YesI have the OL, and it works great.

I will also say that some people (like myself) do not want the "higher packages" because of theological positions that the "higher packages" contains.

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 5:13 AM

tom:

Stephen Thorp:
Secondly, there seems in some quarters a little bit of snobbery when it comes to the lower priced packages. Yes, I am biblically trained and a serving pastor, but the Leaders Package has served me exceptionally well over the years and I have naturally added to my resources
YesI have the OL, and it works great.

I will also say that some people (like myself) do not want the "higher packages" because of theological positions that the "higher packages" contains.

Well that's interesting.  I don't know the packages enough to discern this.  Care to expand upon that thought?  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 1777
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 6:53 AM

I am currently a member of a church body which publishes quite a bit through Logos, but even so, many of our pastors (of which I am not) only go the the Original Languages level.  CPH even did a bit of explaining to Logos to get the Lectionary stuff which they provided to Logos included in Original Languages, like the other Libraries because of this...

Original Languages is focused on original language tools (duh!).  As George pointed out, it is unfortunately missing the key modern lexicons (BDAG and HALOT) for the biblical languages.  While it doesn't have summary "Bible Background" information, it does have many key texts for this background, eg. Context of Scripture, Pseudophigrapha and Nag Hammadi - all in English.  For people with the background to use them, these sources are much more valuable than, say Edersheim.

To get all these tools in another package, last I saw, you need to go Gold.  Scholars itself would not be worth it to me.  Silver has some things that are attractive (Early Church Fathers, K&D - heck, at one time it had the Barkleys) but have never taken the plunge.

Not all of us are American Evangelicals.  LC-MS has been defining itself against them since 1847.

SDG

Ken McGuire

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 2872
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 7:28 AM

John Harrigan:

Michael Childs:
If the book is public domain, and there is not much tagging involved, why not just make the Logos version yourself as a personal book?  Then it costs nothing.  Everybody is happy.

Because they usually come in pdf, which is difficult to convert.

John, I understand the difficulties of converting pdf, but I have personally found that it can be done with a little effort.  I have done it often. The problem for me has not been converting the document text itself, or even the required editing,  but dealing with footnotes.  I don't know if that is what you call "tagging" or not, but every footnote has to be cut and pasted individually into the Word document.  That is why I have not made my own edition of several works, because it is the footnotes that are often so valuable.  Now if someone ever invents a pdf converter that actually can handle footnotes - then we got it made!

In making Personal Books, I have found it great fun, but hard work.  Which makes me appreciate what Logos does, and more willing to pay Logos because there is a heck of a lot more tagging involved than most people realize.  But you certainly can do it yourself if you think the Logos price is too high.  Unsually, the Logos price is a bargain.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 11501
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 7:32 AM

Michael Childs:
The problem for me has not been converting the document text itself, or even the required editing,  but dealing with footnotes.  I don't know if that is what you call "tagging" or not, but every footnote has to be cut and pasted individually into the Word document.  That is why I have not made my own edition of several works, because it is the footnotes that are often so valuable

Michael,

I think some weeks ago Rosie shared a Word script with a very detailed user manual how to at least semi-automate this. I haven't tried myself, but it looked really cool. Probably in the files forum.

EDIT: it's a bit longer ago and the thread title is not very instructive, but Google was friendly: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/47783.aspx 

Mick

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 302
JPH | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 7:46 AM

Michael Childs:
I don't know if that is what you call "tagging" or not

That and referencing other resources in the logos library.

Michael Childs:
Which makes me appreciate what Logos does, and more willing to pay Logos because there is a heck of a lot more tagging involved than most people realize.

Agreed. My point was just to "amen" the too expensive complaint in this thread in regard to public domain resources (logos is already in the black before it gets to pre-pub). Conversely, I agree with Jonathan Burke that modern resources still under contract with publishers are a great deal. My desire is just to see the older works a bit cheaper.

Posts 258
Gary Osborne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 8:00 AM

Mr. Micawber:

I will also say that some people (like myself) do not want the "higher packages" because of theological positions that the "higher packages" contains.

 

Well that's interesting.  I don't know the packages enough to discern this.  Care to expand upon that thought?  

All I'll say to that is I'd be shocked if the answer isn't C-A-L-V-I-N-I-S-M.  I love Logos but darned if I still don't see it slanting more and more in the direction of Reformed dogma in terms of the percentage of material is offers.  It's so plain to me it's not even funny.  But that's just my two cents.  Feel free to bash - it's been ordained so what does it matter. :)

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 8:05 AM

Gary Osborne:
All I'll say to that is I'd be shocked if the answer isn't C-A-L-V-I-N-I-S-M.  I love Logos but darned if I still don't see it slanting more and more in the direction of Reformed dogma in terms of the percentage of material is offers.  It's so plain to me it's not even funny.  But that's just my two cents.  Feel free to bash - it's been ordained so what does it matter. :)

You mean to say that you don't like the higher packages because they contain correct doctrine?  Tsk, tsk.  Big Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 258
Gary Osborne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 8:10 AM

George Somsel:

You mean to say that you don't like the higher packages because they contain correct doctrine?  Tsk, tsk.  Big Smile

 

Big Smile

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 8:15 AM

OLL is the best. Complement it with what You really need. I've done fine without BDAG - only if a new version of it comes out and/or my senior lecturerrequires me to have it I will purchase it.
OLL is designed for both Hebrew and Gk studies. I need mostly Gk, the Hebrew is just a bonus that I have more limited use of - so among else I've hid some Hebrew resources.

I'm venturing on Anabaptism and I'm somewhat close also to RCism (thank's to that I believe in purgatory in afterlife and that the bread literally turns into flesh in the Eucharist, I guess), so most of what Logos has to offer me and especially the Scholar's and higher base-packages are highly irrelevant to me.

Aply!
trulyergonomic.com 6,200own
12G A9-9420 V8.6 Acc 11
d:'13Q3 12G

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 8:18 AM

Unix:
I'm venturing on Anabaptism and I'm somewhat close also to RCism

That's a neat trick !  I'm not sure how you accomplish that.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 8:19 AM

Thanks, yeah it is! :D

Aply!
trulyergonomic.com 6,200own
12G A9-9420 V8.6 Acc 11
d:'13Q3 12G

Posts 450
Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 11:45 AM

Gary Osborne:

Mr. Micawber:

I will also say that some people (like myself) do not want the "higher packages" because of theological positions that the "higher packages" contains.

 

Well that's interesting.  I don't know the packages enough to discern this.  Care to expand upon that thought?  

All I'll say to that is I'd be shocked if the answer isn't C-A-L-V-I-N-I-S-M.  I love Logos but darned if I still don't see it slanting more and more in the direction of Reformed dogma in terms of the percentage of material is offers.  It's so plain to me it's not even funny.  But that's just my two cents.  Feel free to bash - it's been ordained so what does it matter. :)

 

Without giving my theological perspective, I don't think this is a far statement. There has been a large increase, especially in the last 18 months, of other view points. I've seen a number of Catholic resources, for example, come through CP and PP.

 

Posts 258
Gary Osborne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 12:00 PM

Alexander Longacre:

Without giving my theological perspective, I don't think this is a far statement. There has been a large increase, especially in the last 18 months, of other view points. I've seen a number of Catholic resources, for example, come through CP and PP.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree then.  I think my comments were not only fair, but extremely accurate.  The gap between Reformed/Baptist material vs Arminian/Wesleyan/Pentecostal material continues to widen as best I can tell.  But no hard feelings to anyone, regardless of theological persuasion.  I was simply commenting on what I feel like is a very clear trend.  Smile

Posts 2770
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 1:19 PM

Gary Osborne:

Alexander Longacre:

Without giving my theological perspective, I don't think this is a far statement. There has been a large increase, especially in the last 18 months, of other view points. I've seen a number of Catholic resources, for example, come through CP and PP.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree then.  I think my comments were not only fair, but extremely accurate.  The gap between Reformed/Baptist material vs Arminian/Wesleyan/Pentecostal material continues to widen as best I can tell.  But no hard feelings to anyone, regardless of theological persuasion.  I was simply commenting on what I feel like is a very clear trend.  Smile

If I may add my comment to this part of the discussion, as the "Baby" in the group. I'd like to say that I welcome the diverseness of Logos resources, as I may want or need to study different thoughts and such. I have noticed the inclusion of the many resources. Not sure of the ratios or any other such details. I would like the differing resources to be equal, however, I am unsure if that could ever be possible, considering what goes in to adding resources. Just my comment and thoughts pertaining to this. Smile

 

Posts 450
Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 4:23 PM

Gary Osborne:

Alexander Longacre:

Without giving my theological perspective, I don't think this is a far statement. There has been a large increase, especially in the last 18 months, of other view points. I've seen a number of Catholic resources, for example, come through CP and PP.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree then.  I think my comments were not only fair, but extremely accurate.  The gap between Reformed/Baptist material vs Arminian/Wesleyan/Pentecostal material continues to widen as best I can tell.  But no hard feelings to anyone, regardless of theological persuasion.  I was simply commenting on what I feel like is a very clear trend.  Smile

No hard feelings Gary :) For sure, the majority of the resources currently available are more Baptist in nature. (I would disagree in reformed - then again the evangelical field is so convoluted, it's hard to pick our Reformed vs. not) My point was more of what has been coming out in the last year or so. For sure, if Logos wants to put out more of a scope of resources, they would have a long way to go to catch up other theological systems. That being said, I doubt it will ever be as robust as many other users would want. Logos is evangelical in it's standings so I would expect (for good or bad) more of those types of resources. 

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