Still using BibleWorks after installing Logos 4?
I bought a new laptop (Lenovo ThinkPad T500) a few days before L4 was released. A couple of days after L4 was released, I had the upgraded Platinum version installed, indexed, and running. It's taken me till today, two weeks later, to finally install my BibleWorks 7 on the new computer. This led me to wondering how much I will use BW now that I have Logos 4, and even more so will I want to upgrade to BibleWorks 8. Admittedly, I do like the clean look and speed of BibleWorks.
So how valuable is BibleWorks to you other Logos 4 folks? Would you upgrade to BW 8, having L4? Any thoughts?
Bill
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
Comments
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Bill Moore said:
I bought a new laptop (Lenovo ThinkPad T500) a few days before L4 was released. A couple of days after L4 was released, I had the upgraded Platinum version installed, indexed, and running. It's taken me till today, two weeks later, to finally install my BibleWorks 7 on the new computer. This led me to wondering how much I will use BW now that I have Logos 4, and even more so will I want to upgrade to BibleWorks 8. Admittedly, I do like the clean look and speed of BibleWorks.
So how valuable is BibleWorks to you other Logos 4 folks? Would you upgrade to BW 8, having L4? Any thoughts?
Bill
I didn't use it very long (about two months), but I sold Bibleworks 8 to get Logos 3, and now that 4 has fixed, for me, the issues that made 3 inferior to Bibleworks in certain respects (speed of searching, for example), I don't plan to go back. I can do most of the same searches, the speed is very comparable, plus I can access hundreds of others books. Now, some of those books were bundled with Bibleworks and I've had to purchase them separately with Logos (several Greek/Hebrew grammars), but all in all, I much prefer the customizability and other aspects of Logos 4. Bibleworks is also a good program but I felt too constrained by the fixed window position and other aspects of the interface. Plus Logos 4 now has a command bar which makes it very easy to quickly load and search items. I'm excited to see what other developments take place as more features are added/added back in the next 6 months or so.
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I'm thinking of giving away my Bibleworks 8 to a friend. Its not that its a bad program, its actually very good. there are still some times when I go to it to do tasks, but I certainly don't use it enough to justify keeping it on my harddrive when it could be utilized so much more by my friend. Of course this is assuming I can find the discs :-)
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Bill,
I use them both and love them both. Very different philosophies drive these two marvelous software packages. As far as upgrading from 7 to 8, I did that when 8 first came out and haven't regretted it. I wanted to stay current and help support them as a company and a ministry and use some of the newer features. It's the program I turn to first because it is superfast. (Plus, I purchased the BDAG and HALOT package from Bibleworks with version 5 and I use those all the time.) However, I need books--the better commentaries and alllllllllll the other resources Logos offers.
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At the risk of losing my status.....
I use both programs side by side every day - literally. I'm sure there are tasks that one or the other can do better than the other... but after more than a decade of working with both I have thousands of notes of varying length from one word to many printed pages in BW.
Most importantly for me, I have a workflow in place that I refuse to change because it works so well for me.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
At the risk of losing my status.....
I use both programs side by side every day - literally. I'm sure there are tasks that one or the other can do better than the other... but after more than a decade of working with both I have thousands of notes of varying length from one word to many printed pages in BW.
Most importantly for me, I have a workflow in place that I refuse to change because it works so well for me.
Could someone at Logos please remove 400 from Thomas' post count?
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But Phil you only need 40 to catch up.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
But Phil you only need 40 to catch up.
Once I get there, I wanna make sure I stay there.
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Thomas Black said:
At the risk of losing my status.....
I use both programs side by side every day - literally. I'm sure there are tasks that one or the other can do better than the other... but after more than a decade of working with both I have thousands of notes of varying length from one word to many printed pages in BW.
Most importantly for me, I have a workflow in place that I refuse to change because it works so well for me.
Increasing the risk of your losing your status, Thomas, would you be inclined to continue using BW had you not so much time and notes invested with it?
Bill
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
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Bill Moore said:
So how valuable is BibleWorks to you other Logos 4 folks? Would you upgrade to BW 8, having L4? Any thoughts?
Just on a side, serious, thought; if I had BW7 installed on a computer and I knew I would be using it beneficially along side L4, then I would go ahead and upgrade to BW8. BW8 does add some nice features. However I definitely prefer the feel and structure of L4. I feel like I'm entering an Icon and menu jungle every time I open BW.
EDIT: with that plug in the last two sentences...could I get 50 posts added to my count? or does the first sentence cancel out the final two?
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Bill Moore said:
So how valuable is BibleWorks to you other Logos 4 folks? Would you upgrade to BW 8, having L4? Any thoughts?
I started using BibleWorks before Logos and got tremendous value out of the program. When I purchased Logos I continued to use both programs, side-by-side. The more I used Logos, the less I used BibleWorks until finally I almost never fired up BibleWorks. I finally sold my copy of BibleWorks 7 a few weeks ago and do all of my language work inside of Logos.
BibleWorks is a great program but I don't know of anything BibleWorks can do that I can't do in Logos, often with much more flexibility within Logos.
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[*-)] I thought perchance I could dodge that one. Since this is a Logos forum.Bill Moore said:Increasing the risk of your losing your status, Thomas, would you be inclined to continue using BW had you not so much time and notes invested with it?
I believe I would. But then I truly don't know, my feelings on the matter are largely a product of my experience. If I were starting completely from scratch today with no software on my system and no licenses it would be a very hard decision....[:^)]
Honestly I think I'd still buy both since I'm fairly well versed in what each program can do. Which is a very comforting thought, I don't regret money well spent.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
I still use both (though I didn't update to v8 of BW - but it is on my todo list)
There are things that can be done in BW that can't be done in Logos. There are things that are quicker and easier to do in BW than in Logos. For bibles in many languages, BW cannot be beat.
I use it 5-10% of the time, but it is time very well spent.
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I am not even in the race there, but removing 400 would help :-)Philip Spitzer said:Thomas Black said:At the risk of losing my status.....
I use both programs side by side every day - literally. I'm sure there are tasks that one or the other can do better than the other... but after more than a decade of working with both I have thousands of notes of varying length from one word to many printed pages in BW.
Most importantly for me, I have a workflow in place that I refuse to change because it works so well for me.
Could someone at Logos please remove 400 from Thomas' post count?
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Thomas Black said:Bill Moore said:
Increasing the risk of your losing your status, Thomas, would you be inclined to continue using BW had you not so much time and notes invested with it?
I thought perchance I could dodge that one. Since this is a Logos forum.
I believe I would. But then I truly don't know, my feelings on the matter are largely a product of my experience. If I were starting completely from scratch today with no software on my system and no licenses it would be a very hard decision....
Honestly I think I'd still buy both since I'm fairly well versed in what each program can do. Which is a very comforting thought, I don't regret money well spent.
You should have known better. Thanks for your answer. It increases your credibility!
Bill
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
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Damian McGrath said:
I still use both (though I didn't update to v8 of BW - but it is on my todo list)
There are things that can be done in BW that can't be done in Logos. There are things that are quicker and easier to do in BW than in Logos. For bibles in many languages, BW cannot be beat.
I use it 5-10% of the time, but it is time very well spent.
Ditto on all three statements.
I definitely WILL upgrade from BW7 to BW8 not just because of the extra books but for the two included Japanese Bible versions. I doubt I will ever suprass the 5~10% range of use now that I have Logos 4, BDAG & HALOT. [:P] I'm still giddy with glee.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Damian McGrath said:
I still use both (though I didn't update to v8 of BW - but it is on my todo list)
There are things that can be done in BW that can't be done in Logos. There are things that are quicker and easier to do in BW than in Logos. For bibles in many languages, BW cannot be beat.
I use it 5-10% of the time, but it is time very well spent.
This is also my take on the two packages, except that I have BW8
when I search the Bible, compare versions, and deal with the original text BW is much more convenient, easier and faster to nagivate with an user interface more intuitive in those matters.
I mostly use Logos for electronic books and searching those resources.
Alain
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There are some things that BW 8 does that Logos 4 does not do: Vocabulary lists, Word list comparison, MT/LXX searches, graphical searching...
I will continue to use BW 8 for what it is designed to do better than Logos 4. I still feel they are complimentary programs rather than competing programs for original language studies.
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JohnFidel said:
I still feel they are complimentary programs rather than competing programs for original language studies.
This is my sense as well
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I also use BW8 every day along with Logos and sometimes WordSearch. But if Logos notes taking feature in v. 4 did not lag so much I would switch and likely only keep BW8 to keep up to date for writing for CCMag.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
All this honesty encourages me to share the truth about why the statistics regarding the tools I use in Logos do not really reflect what I use Bible software to do . . .
I used Bibleworks for the more complicated searches in original languages until I switched to being a Mac user and then used Accordance.
When I need to be a ninja with the biblical text, I use Accordance. When I need easy access to secondary literature, I use Logos.
I do hope Logos will continue to evolve to the point that it could be the only Bible software that I need. Improved Graphical Queries {cough, cough} . . . Speed Search {cough, cough} . . .
There . . . I said it.
Now I feel much better.
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Philip Spitzer said:
Of course this is assuming I can find the discs :-)
Thankfully, Bibleworks respects your right to lose the disks and not to upload anything to that mean nasty Big-Brother-like Cloud! [:O]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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I'm another BW 8 user, who uses it daily along with Logos. I do nearly all my original language work in BW, and use Logos as a secondary-literature library, for the most part. All my notes are in BW, and I like the way they're organized there.
I've also appreciated BW's native searching ability on imported texts, something not possible with Logos.(Yes, I know about PBB, but it's not the same thing.)
That said, I am highly impressed with L4, and for my many friends who need a program but don't necessarily need any original language work, I think it's now became my default recommendation. Plus, it's now the only PC/Mac/iPhone platform (once those last two get up to speed. I'd like a iPod touch, but I'd need to keep my books on it, not in the cloud.)
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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I have been using BW since the early 80's and upgraded each step along the way up to BW7. Since I've gotten into LOGOS, I literally have not openned BW even once.
Not only that ... I have been able to get FAR more out of my original language studies with L3 and even more now with L4 than ever before. I am grateful to BW for all its years of service to me (and many others) - but the "genius in the basement" has now been replaced.
Respectfully,
Ron
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Does anyone have any workspaces that they can share to get Lagos to do the same thing that Bibleworks does?
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RussQuinn said:
I do hope Logos will continue to evolve to the point that it could be the only Bible software that I need. Improved Graphical Queries {cough, cough} . . . Speed Search {cough, cough} . . .
Your cough is spreading... in addition to language tools, I'd throw in user manipulated geographic mapping capabilities and timeline construction, tightly integrated with the texts and imagery.
That said, I don't mind owning two Bible applications to get jobs done. Then I can pick and use the best strengths from both tools.
I will say though L4 is a huge leap forward in a number of areas. Well done Team Logos.
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Hi Jim,
You can make the two programs look alike, but there are features in each of them that are different. L4 does so much more with library resources than BW8. BW8 can create and compare word lists, verse lists has graphical queries etc. So it is not really just creating a layout as much as it is the fact that the two programs hae a different focus. One is a biblical library, the other is an original language tool. They overlap in many areas, but it is the differences that in my opinion make them complementary.
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Never thought of doing that - making it look like Bibleworks. I actually made it look better than Bibleworks but your screen-shot gave me the idea. Thanks. Don't have Jing reinstalled yet, but what I did was make a Bible reading view just like BW but I put it in the left half with ESV, HCSB, NASB95, KJV and Text Comparison. On the right I have a top pain for Passage Analysis, Search, Information and Bible Explorer. The bottom left is for Bible Notes and Highlighting.
Has all the cool stuff from Bibleworks on one screen plus some of the cool stuff from Logos4 too. Now the only thing I like is the same responsiveness.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Glad it got you thinking... regarding search time, if you enlarge my screenshot BW is .02sec and L4 is .35sec. Percentage wise it may be significant, but not from a practical standpoint. Note it was not the first search I ran in L4.. subsequent searches are faster. I am running L4 beta on a Macbook Pro using Parallels 5. L4 is really flexible, but I don't use Bw8 for it's layout. I use it for verse lists, word list comparisons and vocabulary lists.
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The new Datasheet view in the 4a beta is a big step in the right direction for reducing my need to leave Logos.
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Kevin,
Using the floating windows you can make it look like almost anything..[:D]
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JohnFidel said:
I will continue to use BW 8 for what it is designed to do better than Logos 4. I still feel they are complimentary programs rather than competing programs for original language studies.
I wish that Logos and BW were complimentary programs. I agree that they are complementary programs, however.
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Philip Spitzer said:Thomas Black said:
But Phil you only need 40 to catch up.
Once I get there, I wanna make sure I stay there.
<tear>Sniff sniff </tear>
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Russ Quinn said:
When I need to be a ninja with the biblical text, I use Accordance. When I need easy access to secondary literature, I use Logos.
Same here.
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Hey you're the one that had to take that David Allen book to heart. I had the good sense to ignore it. [;)]Philip Spitzer said:Philip Spitzer said:Thomas Black said:But Phil you only need 40 to catch up.
Once I get there, I wanna make sure I stay there.
<tear>Sniff sniff </tear>
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas Black said:
Hey you're the one that had to take that David Allen book to heart. I had the good sense to ignore it.
Getting things done in the community forums is a perfectly legitimate expression of productivity!
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I have BW about 2. I used it daily and much appreciated it. I used it for Greek and Hebrew and Albanian and ISBE after I got Logos. Eventually I capitulated and got first Greek and Hebrew, then Albanian, and now ISBE on Logos. I also had EBC on Zondervan, and got that on Logos, so now I have everything on Logos. I might use BW for exotic Bibles, tho you can get many of these on ESword.
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For a good example of why you would want to still keep using Bibleworks, see:
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/32600.aspx
Bibleworks can do this kind of search easily.
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I also use BW, and it because BW is faster than L4.
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When, the WIVU database is finally updated to Logos4 I will be happy to install version four(Till, then I will continue to be happy with Logos/Libronix3). But, even when Logos4 adds support for the WIVU database I will still need BibleWorks because it's ability to run queries on the cantillation/accent marks of the Hebrew Bible as well as it's robust graphical search engine and command line.
In terms of a customizable theological library Logos can't be touched, and for some needs(or wants) I will always be compelled to use both programs. I do think, however, that Logos4 is a beautiful looking program, but to my knowledge It still can't do what I want it to do.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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BKMitchell said:
I will still need BibleWorks because it's ability to run queries on the cantillation/accent marks of the Hebrew Bible
I wonder what I could achieve by such a search. Can I look for every word which is vowelled qamatz qamatz and has the Ga'ayah on the second consonant for instance?
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In theory Logos' "Hebrew Regular Expression" queries should allow for searching on both the nikkudot and the Ta'amin at the same time. I purchased Logos' WM 4.2 just try and see if it was possible, but I have not yet been able to preform them in either the WM 4.2 or the SESB Library. Of course searching on the Nikkudot works with any trouble, but accents don't seem to.
It, the programers at Logos are reading this please add Hebrew accent searching.
P.S
I have provide for a partial answer to your question on your, 'Profile comments section'
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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BKMitchell said:
In theory Logos' "Hebrew Regular Expression" queries should allow for searching on both the nikkudot and the Ta'amin at the same time.
As far as I can tell Logos 4 does not support regular expressions. Which goes in tandem with other Hebrew search deficiencies.
BKMitchell said:I have provide for a partial answer to your question on your, 'Profile comments section'
See my reply in the same manner.
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Petitioning Logos:
I wonder how many current Logos users would be willing to petition Logos to add more Hebrew search capabilities to Logos4?
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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I agree. For me Bibleworks is on my computer every day, and it is a speed demon. Logos is very clunky by comparison (especially for original language work). I generally use it for the journals and commentaries, research what I need, then print it out (and use it like a book!). Then I close Logos (which is a resource hog) I hate reading commentaries on a computer screen anyway. Both programs are valuable for their specific functions.
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BKMitchell said:
Petitioning Logos:
I wonder how many current Logos users would be willing to petition Logos to add more Hebrew search capabilities to Logos4?
I would. I use BibleWorks now and it would be nice to be having it work in Logos 4. Compared to the speed and capabilities of BibleWorks, Logos 4 might as well be Adobe Reader.
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777 said:
I would. I use BibleWorks now and it would be nice to be having it work in Logos 4. Compared to the speed and capabilities of BibleWorks, Logos 4 might as well be Adobe Reader.
Nice, to meet you 777.
Well, I guess there are three or four users here that would like to see an improvement in Hebrew searching.
I am thinking of upgrading to to logos 4, It really does have a nice looking GUI but I do not want to lose any of the functions I currently enjoy with the SESB.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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I haven't re-read the thread so forgive me if I'm redundant here.....BKMitchell said:I am thinking of upgrading to to logos 4, It really does have a nice looking GUI but I do not want to lose any of the functions I currently enjoy with the SESB.
Do you know that you can install L4 side by side with L3 with no penalty (aside from hard disk space)? Go ahead and give it a shot. Then when you need to use some of the L3 SESB searching you can. :-)
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Wow - Bibleworks (and QuickVerse, for that matter) have been acquired by WordSearch. Wonder what that does to a lot of people's thinking.
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Source?
I know Wordsearch has "partnered" with Bibleworks to provide some other resources, like NICOT. But I don't see anywhere that Wordsearch has bought the company outright.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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