Now the first three EEC commentaries are available individually

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Daniel Bender | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 15 2012 1:19 PM

Mark Smith:
I find it not just interesting but a backing away from a pre-pub guarantee made about this set. I find that unsettling. Since I didn't buy in it only can benefit me. If I had bought in, I'd feel deceived.

I bought the set at a time when my finances were a little tight; I bought in because I really wanted to get it and thought that I would be saving myself some money by getting the early price. I was convinced that the set would be available only as a set (this was stressed pretty clearly at the beginning). I definitely would not have bought the set if I knew that I could purchase individual volumes so soon. It's also a little disheartening to realize that a large number of the volumes are several years from availability. However, I'm not sure if I would say that I have been deceived. But I would say I feel a little foolish falling for all the hype.

 

 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 15 2012 3:55 PM

Michael Childs:
This is a new commentary set. Therefore, it needs as wide a distribution as possible in order to become accepted as a reputable scholarly resource.

I agree - however it seems, there's still some way to go. One aspect would be to see readers' review comments on the product pages (none) or at least some thoughts here. I'm not qualified for a review, but let me share my observations.

Being more interested in the NT than the OT commentaries, I looked up the pages for Phlm/Col and 1-3 John. The first one was obviously created when there was only Philemon as a standalone thing (?!) and it has no preview of the book. Logos should do their homework on this page. 

The one on the Johannine Epistles allows for look-into - what shall I say, "I'm not really impressed" would be an understatement. This is the first text from the series that wants to be the heir to WBC and BECNT? Give me a break. E.g. the 250 word on genre read like a Clippings file, lining up various snippets taken from seemingly arbitrary sources with no discussion. The conclusion is not substantiated by an argument (for comparison: Kruse in Pillars has twice as much, despite being contrained by the pages on paper, and develops a well worded text).

Same later in the commentary on 1:1 - five or six alternative positions are cited (not explained) without a discussion. Reminds me of the SIL Exegetical Summaries with all the good bits left out. I wondered whether this was a student's assignment ("what positions are held regarding this text? Find a couple of quotes from something in the library, but no more than 200 words") rather than a technical and pastoral commentary that's out to become the showcase for evangelical exegesis in the twenty-first century. 

Michael Childs:
Also, those who buy a volume are likely to come back and buy others, perhaps the entire set.
Hm. I really was willing to be persuaded. I like John's letters, I like to have a number of commentaries per book, I want to dig deeper into John's letters as a beginner in Greek.  

Reading the look-into pages was a real disappointment for me.

The trick that publishers of dead-tree commentaries use is to have a real "bang!" as the first issue (sometimes they badge engineer an outstanding existing work into the first installment of the series just for this purpose), just for the purpose of raking in favorable comments, pushing it on Amazon and bestcommentaries.com, in the seminary journals and the ETS. We all know that and Logos knows it even better. The little bit I've seen from the NT volumes today on logos.com doesn't make me hold my breath for other volumes.   

Maybe someone who owns these resources and has deeper insight into their value can come and readjust my perception.    

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 15 2012 5:44 PM

Daniel Bender wrote the following post at Today 1:19 PM: [8/15/2012]
I bought the set at a time when my finances were a little tight; I bought in because I really wanted to get it and thought that I would be saving myself some money by getting the early price. I was convinced that the set would be available only as a set (this was stressed pretty clearly at the beginning). I definitely would not have bought the set if I knew that I could purchase individual volumes so soon. It's also a little disheartening to realize that a large number of the volumes are several years from availability. However, I'm not sure if I would say that I have been deceived. But I would say I feel a little foolish falling for all the hype.
End Quote

The above quote sums up most of the comments on this thread.

Making the individual volumes available allowed me to get one that I wanted.
There are some others that I want.  And will get them when available but will most likely will never get the set.

I am thankful that the individual volumes are available.

But I understand that we were told ‘set only’.

Yes, it would have been nice if those that bought the set with the understanding that that was the only way had been told of the change.

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 15 2012 7:52 PM

Daniel Bender:

I bought the set at a time when my finances were a little tight; I bought in because I really wanted to get it and thought that I would be saving myself some money by getting the early price. I was convinced that the set would be available only as a set (this was stressed pretty clearly at the beginning). I definitely would not have bought the set if I knew that I could purchase individual volumes so soon. It's also a little disheartening to realize that a large number of the volumes are several years from availability. However, I'm not sure if I would say that I have been deceived. But I would say I feel a little foolish falling for all the hype.


The situation is even worse when you consider the discounts for the individual volumes in the academic program.  I would have NEVER bought the set (even at the “best price” that I was given for jumping in early) if I knew they would be available individually at these prices (or available individually at all).  I have to say that I feel somewhat cheated. It would have been a better deal for me to put the money in an interest bearing account and purchase volumes as they are published. I would have only spent $40.36 so far and the interest (calculated at 1%) I would have earned would have paid for more than 15% of the purchase. Most importantly, I would have been able to skip inferior or redundant volumes and save even more.
I am not complaining about the fact that commentaries did not quite live up to the hype because I knew going in that Logos could not possibly  deliver on the lofty promises to write a series that would be the new standard discussed in all scholarly journals and able to satisfy both scholars and laypeople alike.
I am however not pleased that Logos did not find necessary to inform us individually (if they can call me to offer me new deals, they are surely able to update me about past purchases and changing situations).
I guess it is a case of live and learn and … never again

Posts 887
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 15 2012 8:01 PM

Seriously, folks, if you feel you were deceived (and there is some validity to that charge - i.e., that you responded to a repeated hard-sell promotion or sales pitch that Logos was making which now in light of the current situation appears to have been a misrepresentation of the offer), then call Logos Customer Service and request a complete refund on your EEC purchase and remove it from your resources. Has anyone who here feels they were deceived or tricked attempted to do that and been rebuffed by Customer Service (which would likely also be a valid ground for complaint)?

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 325
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 16 2012 5:33 AM

I purchased 1,2,3 John yesterday.  The introduction read just like a sermon I had heard in the past from David Legge.  I am disappointed so far.

Posts 887
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 16 2012 6:02 AM

Michael:

I purchased 1,2,3 John yesterday.  The introduction read just like a sermon I had heard in the past from David Legge.  I am disappointed so far.

Fortunately for you in your case you clearly have 30 days to decide whether to keep it or return it.

Which part(s) of the Introduction are you referring to, and in what way does it replicate or echo Legge? The Introduction to 1 John includes/discusses Author, Recipients and Date, Theory of a Johannine School,  Occasion and Setting, Order of Composition, Relationship to the Gospel of John, Relationship to the Other Two Epistles, Purpose(s), Genre, Characteristics, Theological and Practical Emphases of the Epistle, Literary Design, Johannine Dualism, and an Outline.

 

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 2883
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 16 2012 7:29 AM

Eric Weiss:
Seriously, folks, if you feel you were deceived (and there is some validity to that charge - i.e., that you responded to a repeated hard-sell promotion or sales pitch that Logos was making which now in light of the current situation appears to have been a misrepresentation of the offer), then call Logos Customer Service and request a complete refund on your EEC purchase and remove it from your resources.

That is the great thing about Logos:  satisfaction is guaranteed, and refunds are always available. 

Nobody is perfect, but Logos is a great company to do business with. 

Keep in mind that there is no perfect commentary set.  Every set is a mixed bag with some very good and some not so good volumes - every set.  That will be true of the EEC.  However, the list of scholars working on the EEC indicate that there will be some gems in this set.  The only reason anyone should ever buy an entire set of commentaries is that one gets a real bargain price per volume by buying them all. 

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 16 2012 8:00 AM

The only commentary that I have read through from EEC is the Ezra Nehemiah one. I used it as I studied the passage and found it incredibly helpful, particularly in its treatment of the historical setting. Some of the "application questions" were a bit lame or forced, but overall if the quality of the set lives up to the quality of the first one I am happy and I am happy that people can buy them individually.

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 16 2012 8:00 AM

I am really happy that I got in for so little per volume.

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

Posts 1082
Martin Folley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 16 2012 3:29 PM

Jack Caviness:

Jonathan Pitts:
I love Logos, but communication could be improved a lot.

I agree with this statement, and not just about this incident.

BTW: I purchased the set, and the release of individual volumes does not bother me. At the price of the current volumes, the set will cost 250+% of what I paid.

 

... and now James has appeared as a pre-pub . I bought into the set  (and remain glad that I have done so) ... but the website does not seem to know this ... am I blessed that I have the opportunity to buy a second copy ? !

Come on Logos ... when will the site look at our licences and know what we have got, regardless of whether it was a bundle or not?

2010 17" MBP with High Sierra, iPad4 with iOS10.

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 16 2012 4:29 PM

Martin Folley:
Come on Logos ... when will the site look at our licences and know what we have got, regardless of whether it was a bundle or not?

According to Phil yesterday: just about now. Big Smile

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 7:21 AM

Jacob Hantla:
Some of the "application questions" were a bit lame or forced
 Um. Yes. 

After reflection, I've determined that I don't care about the set being broken up. I paid what I paid when I paid it because I was both convinced and willing that it was a worthwhile gamble to make.

I still am.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 887
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 7:56 AM

Interesting.

So initially we're told that it will only be sold as a set, so Get It Now! because the set price will go up incrementally as each volume is published between now and 2019.

Then we just recently saw that the already-published volumes are - and will be - available individually.

And now we find out that the about-to-be-published volumes (or James at least as the first upcoming one) will be available at pre-pub prices.

So:

1. If you bought the set during its initial promotion, you got it at $699.95 (average ~$16 per volume) - or $799.95 if you waited too long.

2. If you want the set now, it will cost $999.95 (average ~$23 per volume), and will probably go up incrementally in price as each volume is released, as Logos said.

3. Published volumes are now available individually at ~$34-$51 each.

4. To-be-published volumes will first be available as pre-pubs at a 25% discount, or a minimum of ~$25 each, assuming James is a lowest-priced volume.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 8:21 AM

However it "maths out" Eric, I suspect that Logos has had a change in heart because not enough people are involved on the purchasing side. 

Getting some folks in on individual volumes may in fact entice them to buy the set.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 8:22 AM

So if you buy all the volumes individually: At prepub prices it will come out a little over $1500 and at retail will be about $2000.  These are conservative figures and actual prices will probably be more.  Sounds like those that want all of them and got in initially got a real bargain and if they only wanted half of them, got the others free.  If you follow my thinking.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 887
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 8:33 AM

Jerry M:

So if you buy all the volumes individually: At prepub prices it will come out a little over $1500 and at retail will be about $2000.  These are conservative figures and actual prices will probably be more.  Sounds like those that want all of them and got in initially got a real bargain and if they only wanted half of them, got the others free.  If you follow my thinking.

I in fact did get in at $699.95 near the beginning after debating for a couple weeks (and forgetting that I could still cancel anytime I wanted to, including 30 days after the first volume shipped), figuring that an up-to-date commentary set on the whole Bible for that price was a good deal, even if it was heavily weighted with DTS-prof types, as long as too many of the volumes weren't sub-par. I paid it off at the 12-months-no-fee plan back in May. I still think it will be well worth the investment for a current full-Bible commentary series.

It would probably assuage some hurt feelings if the Logos Blog would have a post on why they changed the sale plan for the EEC.

 

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 653
Alex Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 9:45 AM

If this was the plan from the beginning, we were deliberately deceived.  If circumstances have dictated a change, then why won't Logos let us know?  Most of us are loyal Logos customers for a long time and have proven to be understanding when we know the facts.  I cannot believe that Logos is unaware of our feelings on this by now.  Their ongoing silence on the matter makes one suspicious that they don't have a satisfactory answer to this.

Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 9:45 AM

<clipboard artifact removed>

Eric Weiss:
It would probably assuage some hurt feelings if the Logos Blog would have a post on why they changed the sale plan for the EEC.
 Probably yes.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 9:56 AM

Alex Scott:
Their ongoing silence on the matter makes one suspicious that they don't have a satisfactory answer to this.

An email to every person who ordered on pre-pub before the situation changed would have been appropriate. Of course, it might have created a lot of backlash or negative posting before the event.

I think a pre-pub is a mutual commitment , esp. once money changes hands. It is a partnership. I believe it should be treated that way. Someone at Logos does not.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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