Advance Notice: Logos Ending Windows XP Support October 26, 2012

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This post has 445 Replies | 12 Followers

Posts 31
Michael Carr | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 4:12 PM

I have Windows 7 at the office and Windows XP at home.  How will I be affected -- particualarly with downloading books.

Regards, Michael Carr <><

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 4:30 PM

Gerry Wegener:

Do I have to change my computer or can I simply upgrade my operating system?

I am not very pleased with this change.

 

Gerry Wegener

If your computer will run W7, all you need to do is to install W7.  If your computer will not run W7, you need to get a new computer (or otherwise upgrade your existing computer which is probably a less desirable option than getting a new one).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1692
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 4:58 PM

Scott Pixler:
I use Logos 4 on two laptops, one a Dell XP and the other a MacBookpro on 10.7. Should I refuse future updates to Logos4 on my XP machine?

There is no need to refuse updates; the system won't update to a version you can't run.

Posts 1692
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 5:07 PM

Jim Gammon:
Your need to upgrade is understandable. YET this is notification at the last minute.

We're sorry about this. The biggest driving force is our need to (at last, after putting it off for a couple years) move to .NET 4.0, which should have significant advantages for us (and for you, in a better product).

Unfortunately, .NET 4.5 is coming along with Windows 8 (it's actually out now), and it is an "in-place" install. .NET 4.0 will run side-by-side with .NET 3.0 on your system, but .NET 4.5 will overwrite .NET 4.0. And .NET 4.5 doesn't support XP.

(Other people don't like this, too: https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/730732/net-framework-4-5-should-support-windows-xp-sp3,)

So, our options are to stick with .NET 3.5 -- out of date, with bugs, performance issues, lack of access to significant advantages -- or move to .NET 4.0 / 4.5, which we've been planning for a while. When we decided to move future release to .NET 4 it still supported XP; it's the new .NET 4.5 "upgrade in place, with no XP support" that creates the "new" problem, and thus our announcement.

We have done an analysis of our user base, and XP users are a small portion. Most importantly, they won't be "turned off", and it's our intention to provide the best support we can for as long as possible. At the moment, I don't know of any imminent changes that would make new books not work on XP, or any reason people couldn't happily run it and their books (and even new books) for many months / years into the future. 

We intend to retain the ability to compile and release on the existing XP-compatible platform so that we can even do a "service pack" as necessary to 4.6. We're just giving advance notice that we'll be moving future releases to .NET 4, and thus losing this XP support.

I like to support things as long as possible, and am sympathetic to users who can't afford to upgrade, but at the same time, things have to move on, and XP (while it had a long life, and was sold for a long while) is 10 years old, and with Windows 8, now three whole generations out of date. That's a long run. 

 

Posts 1692
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 5:16 PM

Robert Armstrong:
Respectfully Bob, 60 days does not qualify as "advance notice".

My just-posted message explains how this isn't so much a policy decision, as something driven by Microsoft's decision to have .NET 4.5 (just released) install "in place" rather than side-by-side, and to not add XP support. I'm sorry the notice isn't longer, but please do keep in mind that we aren't "ending" your ability to use Logos on XP -- we're just not advancing that platform with future developments. It still runs, and will continue to run, and should even support new books for some time to come.

Robert Armstrong:
I have worked in the software industry for years and I have never experienced this kind of approach to dropping support for an OS.

With respect, I propose that we're actually much better at supporting old OS's than many companies. (Apple practically forces new upgrades, regularly obsoletes old hardware and software, doesn't support 2-3 year old devices with the latest apps, etc.) While technically you could buy XP two years ago, it is really a 10-year old platform. Vista came out 6 years ago, and was clearly identified as the successor. Even if you subscribe to the "skip every other release" Windows strategy, you've had three years since Windows 7 came out. So even if XP was available, everyone who bought it in the last six years knew they were intentionally buying "the old version" of Windows. 

 

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 6:09 PM

Robert Armstrong:
I have worked in the software industry for years and I have never experienced this kind of approach to dropping support for an OS.

 

Really? Then you need to do some more reading of what's going on - how about this one for instance, Microsoft says no upgrade path for Windows 7 phones, some of which aren't even a year old?

http://www.crn.com/news/mobility/240002436/no-windows-phone-8-upgrade-path-for-wp7-users.htm

http://www.neowin.net/news/editorial-thanks-microsoft-for-no-wp8-upgrade-path

Or RIM confirming no upgrade path for Blackberry 7, released in August 2011!

InstallShield has quite a few products no longer upgradeable that are as little as 5 years old

The list goes on and on. I understand you are upset and this may have been a comment out of frustration, but if you objectively compare policies, Logos' policy is much more customer-friendly than many. As software vendors adapt .NET 4.5, you will see them do the exact same thing as Logos.

Posts 25
Diane Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 9:06 PM

I have XP and won't be upgrading, whatever it does, it will do. If I can no longer use Logos that will be what happens. 

Posts 10521
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 9:31 PM

Diane ... your Logos4 will continue operate on your XP. They just won't be updating it and resources that need the newer version won't download.

That sounds pretty scary but actually Logos4 is pretty complete, even in Bob's estimation (the owner). Most future updates aren't likely to matter a lot.

I run the older Libronix3. Love it. Don't need updates. Don't need headaches.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 10
Ho-Ngon Yung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 10:13 PM

You should not drop the support for Windows XP. The rationale? WindowsXP is still the leading OS when compare with Windows 7 from a news article as of August 1st, 2012

http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/01/microsoft-windows-market-share-july-2012/

Taking into consideration that Windows XP is so old but still tops the market share, that means there are still many systems are running on XP. Forcing people to upgrade to Windows 7(no one will upgrade to Vista, the reason is obvious)just because running the Logos software is not a good idea and not fair when XP is still the leading OS.

This would be particular true for many minsters who may not have much time to learn to debug Windows 7 which is much more difficult than XP systems.

Talking about Windows 8, historically Microsoft did not release any new release without big problems. Remember the first release of XP  from Windows 3.1, problems were everywhere. Now the XP becomes a stable system only after this 11 years. Forcing people to abandon a stable system where nearly all bugs are fixed seems not a wise choice.

Please consider seriously and not to drop the support to XP. Thank you.

Posts 10
Ho-Ngon Yung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 10:28 PM

Sorry, some follow up here

1. There are still many systems on sale which is running XP and there are still so many buyers out there. ( no market, no buyer)

2. The release of Windows 8 and Net 4.5 are not for outdated software reason but to chase Apple for the market share . If Microsoft is not successful to gain market share for Windows 8 and Net. 4.5, they will soon be releasing Windows 9, 10 , 11 in no time. Reading this article "iphone is bigger than all Microsoft service combined" will just add to my worries that Microsoft will be releasing new versions sooner and sonner.

http://worldnewsresource.com/apples-iphone-bigger-than-microsofts-products-and-services-combined/4090/donald-masters

Are you chasing the stars following Microsoft? We ministers, do not need the post-modern period of technology, we need a stable system so we can study the most ancient knowledge, our Lord's word. Please support us in doing so.

Sorry to take up so much space. God bless.

 

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 10:38 PM

Ho-Ngon Yung:

Taking into consideration that Windows XP is so old but still tops the market share, that means there are still many systems are running on XP. Forcing people to upgrade to Windows 7(no one will upgrade to Vista, the reason is obvious)just because running the Logos software is not a good idea and not fair when XP is still the leading OS.

This would be particular true for many minsters who may not have much time to learn to debug Windows 7 which is much more difficult than XP systems.

Talking about Windows 8, historically Microsoft did not release any new release without big problems. Remember the first release of XP  from Windows 3.1, problems were everywhere. Now the XP becomes a stable system only after this 11 years. Forcing people to abandon a stable system where nearly all bugs are fixed seems not a wise choice.

W7 is more difficult than Xp?  I doubt that.  Also, Xp was not a development from 3.1 but from Windows 95 which I used until finally getting a new computer which came with Windows Me.  I'm not sure what the complaint regarding Vista might have been although I apparently was confusing Me with Vista.  With W7 64 bit you can have more memory which makes things run better.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 6
Ed Reeves | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 11:04 PM

Do the statistics come from information that is automatically sent by the computer when Logos is upgraded? I use XP on all my computers and right now I find it frustrating that I should spend time and money to upgrade the system and then reinstall the many programs I have.

Posts 6
Ed Reeves | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 7 2012 11:09 PM

I agree completely and have similar questions.

Posts 27916
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 12:34 AM

Ho-Ngon Yung:
Forcing people to upgrade to Windows 7

Logos is not saying that people must upgrade to Windows 7. They are saying that XP will no longer move forward. It will be frozen at a stable release. Customer service will still handle XP calls. However, they are saying that people who are not on XP (or below) will reap some of the benefits of .NET 4.0 and 4.5.

 

Ho-Ngon Yung:
Forcing people to abandon a stable system where nearly all bugs are fixed seems not a wise choice.

Luckily that is not what Logos is proposing. What they are saying is that those who are on versions above XP can reap the benefits of their OS i.e. .NET 4. Logos is allowing people to stay on their current stable system with a stable Logos product. However, it is also saying that those of us on Vista or Win 7 will not be held back with poor performance due to pre .NET 4 versions of .NET. Perhaps because I have a foot in both worlds - XP desktop, Win 7 laptop - I see this as a reasonable decision. Now we will see if syncing changes my mind.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 27916
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 12:37 AM

Diane Barnes:

I have XP and won't be upgrading, whatever it does, it will do. If I can no longer use Logos that will be what happens. 

Welcome to the forums. The way that Bob P. described the transition, you should be able to run your Logos as long as your computer still runs.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1
Bernard Cartledge | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 12:47 AM

You say very few people are using the XP. This may be in the US, but my experience is that many still use the system elsewhere in the world. I think you might be making a premature move here! To what extent will your lack of support effect our use and ongoing use of Logos?

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 12:53 AM

Bernard Cartledge:

You say very few people are using the XP. This may be in the US, but my experience is that many still use the system elsewhere in the world. I think you might be making a premature move here! To what extent will your lack of support effect our use and ongoing use of Logos?

Just keep on truckin'.  You may have problems with some new resources at some time down the road, but not for a while.  Everything you already have you will continue to have.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1
Douglas Allen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 2:03 AM

If that is the case it means that the items I have on order but not yet delivered are likely not to be able to be delivered.

I am not in a position to upgrade to Windows 7 and will continue to e Windows XP (it being the only Windows

program that I use being a Lotus man myself).   Am I correct ? 

Sadly, if I am I see not alternative but to cancel the outstanding orders.

Douglas Allen

reverend.doulos@talktalk.net

Posts 98
JJ Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 2:23 AM

A very good idea to move on past XP combatibility. I think XP use is drying up fast, anyway. E ven our elementaryChristian school recently upgraded to Windows 7! :) while it is probably true that there are more churches and other frugal folks that are still using XP, even the most frugal will realize that it is time to move on (or simply not upgrade their Logos / Libronix software after October). It's time.

Posts 11
David Strittmatter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 3:40 AM

I'd like a little more time to make the switch from XP to Windows 7 or 8. My 6 year old laptop has XP and may not be upgradable to Windows 7 or 8. I do realize that Microsoft is dropping support for XP next year and I will have to do something. For now I'll have to keep running  with XP and live with the deficiencies.

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