Advance Notice: Logos Ending Windows XP Support October 26, 2012

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395620#Comment_395620

I can understand the calming remarks on this thread. I just don't think they're realistic. It was just a short time ago calming remarks were made about Libronix. 'Oh, you can use both at the same time.' That lasted all of 18 months or so. At which point new and exciting books (the point!) are out of reach.

Then the calming remarks switch to 'se la vi'.

I've no doubt, if the conversation were in person, the heads would be shaking and the comment would be 'Gee, I don't know WHAT you're going to do!'

Rob Henderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/391402#Comment_391402

Will this affect the syncing of resources and reading plans between Logos 4+ of 5 with XP after October?

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395781#Comment_395781

Will this affect the syncing of resources and reading plans between Logos 4+ of 5 with XP after October?

Probably not. Remember - Logos knows that not everyone is going to upgrade, plus the system still has to sync with the mobile platforms. Logos just spent a considerable amount of time migrating to a new sync infrastructure. I doubt they are changing again so soon. [;)]

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395786#Comment_395786

Will this affect the syncing of resources and reading plans between Logos 4+ of 5 with XP after October?

Probably not. Remember - Logos knows that not everyone is going to upgrade, plus the system still has to sync with the mobile platforms. Logos just spent a considerable amount of time migrating to a new sync infrastructure. I doubt they are changing again so soon.

And I think they will sync because the data is not changing, and the data is going to Logos' servers, and the sync already deals with non-xp items.

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395551#Comment_395551

Has to be a more trendy date

hmm.

10-11-12? (October, 11 2012)

10-11-12 is the 5th day of the week this year.

Rob Henderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395800#Comment_395800

Thanks Tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395744#Comment_395744

That lasted all of 18 months or so.

How long should it last? Is there a deterministic set of criteria by which a company can make a decision to stop supporting a product (though the product will continue to work)?

Donnie

David Teter

You folks in software land have apparently totally lost touch with what it's like in pastor land. From your perspective it's all about functionality and support (and a big bottom line). For those tending the flock its the difference between someone spending eternity in heaven or hell and having enough to put food on the table and keep the lights on! I have not "upgraded" to the platinum edition because I don't have an extra $1000 just looking for a place to be spent wisely. And now you're saying there is a time in the future when I either spend a grand (that I have already pointed out I don't have) for new PC that will run whatever OS Microsoft decides to come out with or risk at some point my investment in your software becoming obsolete (and a wasted investment). You're allowing Microsoft to define your purpose for being. Bad choice!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395860#Comment_395860

Donnie ... I don't know. I'm not the one(s) trying to spread the gospel in places not rich in resources. But as I've said from the early days of my forum participation, the population of Logos users are not just book buyers. So maybe the usual business math might need a bit of adjustment.

Nah, just joking.

Logos is a profit-driven business.

And it's what's good for us that's most important, right?

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395864#Comment_395864

And now you're saying there is a time in the future when I either spend a grand (that I have already pointed out I don't have) for new PC that will run whatever OS Microsoft decides to come out with or risk at some point my investment in your software becoming obsolete (and a wasted investment).

Dave – I can empathize with you, but you are mistaken. You will lose nothing. Your computer will continue to run in the state that it is in now. You have been harmed in no way.

I like gadgets. I also happen to be unemployed. For several years now, the only time I get new gadgets is when people gift them to me. My parents purchased an iPad for my wife and me a couple of years ago. Apple is presumably releasing a new OS tomorrow (alongside the iPhone 5). My iPad will NOT be eligible to update to the new OS. There is a sense in which I feel that I have lost something… but that is ridiculous. Apple moving forward is what I want them to do. Just because I can't move with them doesn't mean I have been harmed. Tomorrow, when everyone is bragging about the new OS, my iPad will still function the way it does today. This analogy applies the same way for this Logos change. When the next version of Logos comes out, you will not be able to install it on your computer. You may feel a loss about that, but you will not have been harmed in any way. Your computer will still function the way it has in the past.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395864#Comment_395864

You folks in software land have apparently totally lost touch with what it's like in pastor land. From your perspective it's all about functionality and support (and a big bottom line). For those tending the flock its the difference between someone spending eternity in heaven or hell and having enough to put food on the table and keep the lights on! I have not "upgraded" to the platinum edition because I don't have an extra $1000 just looking for a place to be spent wisely. And now you're saying there is a time in the future when I either spend a grand (that I have already pointed out I don't have) for new PC that will run whatever OS Microsoft decides to come out with or risk at some point my investment in your software becoming obsolete (and a wasted investment). You're allowing Microsoft to define your purpose for being. Bad choice!

I don't know where you're getting the $1000 figure. I checked for my daughter since she was considering a new computer. Since you already have a monitor (I assume you're not reading the bits and bytes directly from the computer), you can get a very decent computer for under $500 without monitor. If you check around you might get it for a fair amount below $500 (say, $300 range).

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395874#Comment_395874

Logos is a profit-driven business.

And it's what's good for us that's most important, right?

Yes, unless we are desirous of having an orphan product which is what would happen if they didn't pay attention to the bottom line.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395888#Comment_395888

Well , you're probably correct. Every screen cost them and arm and a leg for the gee-whiz product line, so yes, unloading low-profit customers is probably a good thing for them.

Kind of like running your boat into shoaly waters. Reality is what to throw out.

Ralph Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395929#Comment_395929

It's about the money ! Lebowski.

Mike Wilkins

Bob,

While I understand the difficulties Logos faces in maintaining these different operating systems, I'm sure that there are many out there who, like me, work in small church situations with limited budgets and funds. The church supplies me with a desktop and laptop, both of which run on XP, and doesn't have the funds for me to upgrade to Windows 7 (much less 8) any time soon.

I do manage to purchase a few commentaries and the like each year for my Logos 4 Library and am disappointed to learn that that any future books - maybe some already on order, won't be supported on my system in the near future.

I encourage Logos to reconsider its action and, at the very least, delay the discontinuation of support for XP. Mike

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/395879#Comment_395879

And now you're saying there is a time in the future when I either spend a grand (that I have already pointed out I don't have) for new PC that will run whatever OS Microsoft decides to come out with or risk at some point my investment in your software becoming obsolete (and a wasted investment).

Dave – I can empathize with you, but you are mistaken. You will lose nothing. Your computer will continue to run in the state that it is in now. You have been harmed in no way.

I like gadgets. I also happen to be unemployed. For several years now, the only time I get new gadgets is when people gift them to me. My parents purchased an iPad for my wife and me a couple of years ago. Apple is presumably releasing a new OS tomorrow (alongside the iPhone 5). My iPad will NOT be eligible to update to the new OS. There is a sense in which I feel that I have lost something… but that is ridiculous. Apple moving forward is what I want them to do. Just because I can't move with them doesn't mean I have been harmed. Tomorrow, when everyone is bragging about the new OS, my iPad will still function the way it does today. This analogy applies the same way for this Logos change. When the next version of Logos comes out, you will not be able to install it on your computer. You may feel a loss about that, but you will not have been harmed in any way. Your computer will still function the way it has in the past.

Very good analogy. When Apple came with the new OS5 and it's Siri Voice Assistant, I was not included but my iPhone 4 works exactly the way it worked the day before the update. It's more about the feeling the first couple of days I had to realize I was "left behind" from the new update. Than I just moved on and just enjoy my iPhone 4 without those new bells and whistles. [:)]

Alan

I use XP both at home and at work. I have no intention of upgrading any time soon. Microsoft is still supporting XP why not you? Makes me wonder why I invested in upgrading to Logos 4.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396214#Comment_396214

I use XP both at home and at work. I have no intention of upgrading any time soon. Microsoft is still supporting XP why not you? Makes me wonder why I invested in upgrading to Logos 4.

Like about 75% of those on the forum, you haven't been listening. Microsof will no longer support Xp. Then there is the question of the .NET 4 / 4.5. Since 4.5 overwrites 4, and is not compatible with Xp, Logos would be restricting themselves to old technology. Read before you reply.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396219#Comment_396219

Microsof will no longer support Xp.

George, that isn't true. MS will support XP through 2014. What they won't do is make .NET 4.5 compatible with XP, nor offer a service pack to allow .NET 4.5 to run on XP.

So, when Logos4 transitions to .NET 4.5 (which will help solve a lot of the issues it currently has), Logos users with XP will not be able to take advantage of those upgrades. Further, Logos will continue to offer customer support for Logos 4 for XP users (in spite of what the title of the thread seems to imply), it just won't be developing the program in a way that will be compatible with (i.e. "supports") XP machines.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396224#Comment_396224

What they won't do is make .NET 4.5 compatible with XP, nor offer a service pack to allow .NET 4.5 to run on XP.

For those who are interested in knowing more background details...

When it was first announced that .NET 4.5 would not support XP, many developers requested (through multiple channels) that Microsoft change this decision (because XP is still in extended support, and because many companies still have customers on XP): http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/2723735-make-net-4-5-work-on-any-os-that-supports-4-0, https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/730732/net-framework-4-5-should-support-windows-xp-sp3.

When those suggestions were declined, new ones were opened (and garnered a lot of votes) because developers were dissatisfied with the answer: http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/3116039-support-xp-for-4-5-until-the-end-of-xp-support-, http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/3127346-support-a-net-4-0-service-pack-on-windows-xp-supp.

It appears at this point that Microsoft is committed to this decision (since they have shipped .NET 4.5). However, Microsoft did respond to community pressure on a related suggestion (to allow native C++ applications without .NET to support XP: http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/2287078-allow-vs11-c-applications-to-run-on-xp-sp3-orig), so there is a slim, slim possibility they'll reverse the .NET decision. (I think that's unlikely, though.)

Alex Tang

Hai,

Not too sure how accurate your statements is that very few Logos users are using Windows XP. Maybe you should ask us in the third world who have saved so hard just to buy your basic software. Many in the third world is still using XP even though it is 11 years old.

Alex Tang

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396260#Comment_396260

Not too sure how accurate your statements is that very few Logos users are using Windows XP. Maybe you should ask us in the third world who have saved so hard just to buy your basic software. Many in the third world is still using XP even though it is 11 years old.

Sounds like it is POLL time asking (for example)

Please list all operating systems that you use Logos on:
Then list each of Logos 3 and Logos 4 XP, Vista, 7 32, 7 64, (and the MAC OS)
Then ask % use of each (maybe ask how many hours per week usage)
Require the email address – one reply per customer
What % of customers reply may be meaningful data

This poll needs to go to every customer email and on the Logos 4 home page and the forum

Maybe

[Then if only we could get Microsoft to run a similar poll on its users – too many may be concerned on selling the newest and get rid of the old 11 year old system that is no longer making them money – 25 and even 50 year old cars are on the road [I put 12 years on both of my last two cars] but if you have a 6 year old computer you are expected to buy a new one – WHY? Are computers a type of reverse Ponzi scheme? [the early customers finance the changes for the latter customers: and then get dumped.] ]

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396283#Comment_396283

Not too sure how accurate your statements is

Sounds like it is POLL time asking

One of the advantages of having an online sync system built into software is that you can gather statics.

I can guarantee you that Logos knows exactly how many XP machines their software has been installed on, and how many are currently in use.

Karen Batishko

I just learned of this thread and browsed it this morning for the first time, but haven't read every post. From my here and there browsing, it sounds like the majority are happy to see this change.

Our two computers run XP on my desktop and Vista on my laptop. When I bought the laptop, Vista had just been released and I had the option of Vista or XP. I wish I'd opted for XP and have regretted that decision ever since. Logos4 is on my desktop and my laptop doesn't have enough disk space for it, and it's getting old enough that I certainly won't put money into a newer, larger drive. I know there are solutions to that, but I simply won't build on a Vista system.

I am really disappointed in Logos for taking this step, though I can appreciate their dilemma in trying to optimize their product and services with limited resources. It's easy to point to Microsoft as the villain - especially since they've seemed to be just that in so many instances over the years.

For me, I guess it's just a matter of seeing how crippling this will be since I'm not in a position to go out and buy a copy of Windows 8 to run on my old desktop or laptop - if it would even run on either - nor to buy a new computer right now. I guess this is all about money on both sides.

I guess of the few posts that I read, the one that struck me as the strongest reason to continue to support XP is one of the ones way back on the first page of this thread. If you are going to support the MAC operating systems, It seems fair to support XP whose user base appears to be at least 2X, if not more, larger than the MAC user base. Then, the most recent post before mine that calls for a poll makes a good point that regarding third world users. I suspect that one doesn't need to go to the third world to find many who are running old systems with XP, who can't afford to upgrade.

Personally, if Logos supported Linux, I'd be running it under Linux since I can update that operating system at no cost. My desktop is dual-booted to Linux and I much prefer it to Windows. However, I suspect that the Linux user base for Logos4 would be much smaller than even MAC.

That said, I do understand Logos's dilemma, and have to expect the inevitable.

Karen's Hubby

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396286#Comment_396286

For me, I guess it's just a matter of seeing how crippling this will be

Karen - This will not be crippling for you at all. Logos chose poor wording, in my opinion. All that is happening is that the newer versions of Logos will require a newer OS, but you will still be supported in the 4.6x builds.

EDIT: Sorry. Karen's Hubby. [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396286#Comment_396286

If Microsoft were an airline none of us would fly with them due to their dismal record.

Wish Logos ran on Linux.

The way it is now Logos programmers will be compensating for Microsoft's erors in .Net 5.5 and Windows 8, 9,10 and whatever.

[:@] [:'(] [:S]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396286#Comment_396286

Karen's Hubby ... the dilemma was they're own making. People have a bad habit of forgetting just how many thousands of software packages work with relative ease in Windows. I'd agree the 32bit vs 64bit might be an issue but this one belongs to Logos. And the impact on people in service of the Lord similarly belongs to them. Daily.

As does they're problem on the Mac. People somehow think 'a mess' was they're only choice, forgetting that I download my Libronix resources literally faster than Logos4, and sync my library as well. Logos4 was a tinkerer's dream run amok. And no, I'm not advocating 'Libronix'. I'm advocating caring about their customers.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396299#Comment_396299

People have a bad habit of forgetting just how many thousands of software packages work with relative ease in Windows. I'd agree the 32bit vs 64bit might be an issue but this one belongs to Logos.

Logos works fine in windows for me, as long as I do not load a 40+ tab layout. Occasionally there is a spinning pizza, two turns and then the books drop down in parallel box, but otherwise than that it is ok.

One problem that many may be having, is their computer needs a tuneup.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396296#Comment_396296

All that is happening is that the newer versions of Logos will require a newer OS

It is not just Logos that is caught in this "upgrade your OS or else..." threat. Much of my software will not run on the forthcoming Microsoft Operating System. I refuse to upgrade hundreds of programs to keep up with Microsoft. On most of my software upgrades will not even be possible for a long time, if ever. When I do buy a new laptop it will probably be a dedicated Logos 5 machine or dual boot just to run the rest of my software. That defeats a lot of the benefits of consolidation. Once upon a time I had to fire up multiple programs and switch between windows to use my multiple Bible software. I felt it was well worth the repeat purchase in Logos to have everything under one roof. I retired my Ages, PC Study Bible, QuickVerse and others. In the future I will have a Logos 5 machine and then the older machines that run the rest of my software. I can not repurchase all of it just to suit Microsoft's Brave New World.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396306#Comment_396306

Hello Super Tramp, I trust that all is well with you. Just pleased to see you back on the forums. I hope that your wealth and health are both increasing. God bless.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396309#Comment_396309

Lynden ... "Logos works fine for me."

Well, of course it works fine for you. But we're not talking about you. We're talking about people in places and wealth that don't easily accomodate 'the Cadllac of Bible software'.

We're talking about caring about other people that do the Lord's work. That IS the point of the software.

And no, I'm very obviously nothing anyone wants to brag about; my comments on the forum should display that quite well.

But in the company I was an executive for many years, we wouldn't dream of not supporting our overseas stores and less well-off customers. In places with poor communications, iffy electricity, etc. Cost us money and extra time to think it out. But we had a job to do.

And our US associates and customers knew that and even demanded it. They weren't of the variety 'works for me!'.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396316#Comment_396316

Lynden ... "Logos works fine for me."

Well, of course it works fine for you. But we're not talking about you. We're talking about people in places and wealth that don't easily accomodate 'the Cadllac of Bible software'.

We're talking about caring about other people that do the Lord's work. That IS the point of the software.

And no, I'm very obviously nothing anyone wants to brag about; my comments on the forum should display that quite well.

But in the company I was an executive for many years, we wouldn't dream of not supporting our overseas stores and less well-off customers. In places with poor communications, iffy electricity, etc. Cost us money and extra time to think it out. But we had a job to do.

And our US associates and customers knew that and even demanded it. They weren't of the variety 'works for me!'.

I am not sure if the "overseas" pastors have a bigger problem then the US pastors with the need of upgrade of the OS. Logos is used IMHO just by those pastors who are ready to use advanced technologies and to keep up with the progress. All others (most pastors) use (I speak for our country now) use just freeware Bible software. Actually, the truth is, to change XP for Win7 is the smallest problem for us. The cost of quality resources (commentaries, lexicons etc.) is much bigger challenge to most of us than hardware or OS expenses - you will have to do one day anyways (may be not for Logos, but for other software we use). Just my 2 cents.

Steve Maling

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396316#Comment_396316

Good morning, DMB,

At least it is morning here in Oregon.

Are you aware that Lynden is in the South Bahamas Adventist Conference? I suspect he is among the "overseas" folk about whom all of us are concerned.

Grace, mercy, and peace,

Steve

Daniel Rial

Bob,

I run Logos 4 on Win 7, 64 bit. How is my system going to be affected?

Dan

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396350#Comment_396350

Bob,

I run Logos 4 on Win 7, 64 bit. How is my system going to be affected?

Dan

Welcome to the forums Dan. No I do not work for Logos, but you will not be affected negatively at all. If anything, you should see improvements in the long run, as Logos 4 and 5, move to .Net 4.5 which will be compatible with Win 7.

Waiting with great anticipation and expectation.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396298#Comment_396298

If Microsoft were an airline none of us would fly with them due to their dismal record.

Microsoft is by no means perfect, and they have a dismal record in certain areas or contexts.

But in what respect does MS have a dismal record in the context of this discussion? They're supporting XP until 2014 - that's a crazy long life span for that operating system - ~13 years. .NET 4.0 will continue to work on XP - that means it will have supported every version of .NET starting with 1.0 in 2002. You just won't be able to install .NET 4.5 on XP, which might make some complain but doesn't seem unreasonable - 10+ years of .NET versions will be supported for 2 more years.

This impacts Logos, as I read it, because Logos has chosen to take a dependency on .NET 4.5 for future versions. I don't see how that can be laid at Microsoft's feet.

Donnie

Gregory Breen

With Microsofts' OS track record in mind, I find it hard to believe that .NET 4.5 will not bring its own bugs and performance challenges that will eventually lead to all of us who are using Windows 7 to be forced to upgrade to the 'latest & greatest' (yet never quite complete) Microsoft OS, Windows 8.

Hoping that that Vista/7 users aren't next on the chopping block,

Greg

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396304#Comment_396304

One problem that many may be having, is their computer needs a tuneup.

I disagree. If Logos is the only problem running on my computer, then it is not the computer. I do not have any other issues with my other large and complex programs.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396357#Comment_396357

Microsoft is by no means perfect, and they have a dismal record in certain areas or contexts.

Hoping that that Vista/7 users aren't next on the chopping block,

My problem with Microsoft is not that they are having a bunch of "accidents" in their releases. I believe they are intentionally sabotaging their own users for another buck. Case in point:

I bought a laptop with Vista pre-installed. I have kept it on auto update for all MS products. When I did the latest update of the Vista service pack I received a nagging message on my desktop saying "This Windows is not genuine." Microsoft is now offering to sell me a second license for the legal install I already own. That is dishonest and the same as stealing. I know for a fact Microsoft has been doing this practice to legally licensed owners of Windows since XP days. The internet is replete with complaints against Microsoft and any of the software gurus on this forum is familiar with this scenario.

There was an episode of the Simpsons where Bill Gates comes to "buy out" Homer Simpson's internet company. The two thugs accompanying Gates commence destroying everything in Homer's dining room. Touche. Just ask Sun corporation (owners of JAVA) about the honesty of Microsoft.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396365#Comment_396365

My problem with Microsoft is not that they are having a bunch of "accidents" in their releases. I believe they are intentionally sabotaging their own users for another buck. Case in point:

I bought a laptop with Vista pre-installed. I have kept it on auto update for all MS products. When I did the latest update of the Vista service pack I received a nagging message on my desktop saying "This Windows is not genuine."

...

Two responses, I suppose. 1) This doesn't address my question of how there's any evidence of Microsoft's "dismal record" as it relates to Logos moving past XP.

2) It was well publicized by Microsoft that they are doing hardware signatures as part of their attempts to certify Windows "genuine" licenses. I'm not a huge fan of the idea, either. I've seen things affected by changing hard drives but not by adding memory, for example. However, I've used the phone number that's prominently displayed in such scenarios half-a-dozen times, including as recently as last month, and I've never had any problem getting the O.S. certified as genuine. I've definitely not had to spend any money. Last month I didn't even have to talk to a person to get things squared away.

A friend and colleague whom I worked with several years ago, fairly well known in the Windows world up to that point, got to the point you seem to have reached regarding Microsoft's business practices. He finally made the decision to ditch MS and Windows. Had to learn brand new development platforms, O.S.'s, etc. Significantly more pain in the Linux world in terms of getting certain configurations and devices working (though once they are, they tend to "just work" forever - save sound cards - see http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html ) My point is that he put his money where his mouth was.

Donnie

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396370#Comment_396370

My point is that he put his money where his mouth was.

I own dozens of Linux distributions, MacOs from SE platform thru Lion, and every Windows license since Windows 1.0 and that does not negate the moral culpability of Microsoft to deliver what I paid for.

1) This doesn't address my question of how there's any evidence of Microsoft's "dismal record" as it relates to Logos moving past XP.

Bob Pritchett lamented over basing Logos on Microsoft's first graphics proposal that they abandoned in favor of .Net. I don't care what Microsoft says, if they change horses mid-stream, they can not be trusted. "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Will we never learn?

Prediction: Logos 8 will not be running on .Net

addendum:

It was well publicized by Microsoft that they are doing hardware signatures as part of their attempts to certify Windows "genuine" licenses. I'm not a huge fan of the idea,

I'm not a fan either. I should not have to make a phone call after every service pack update just to avoid being called a thief by someone who took my money. God thought it bad enough to carve a commandment in stone forbidding this conduct.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396403#Comment_396403

I should not have to make a phone call after every service pack update

That seems like a bit of frustration-induced hyperbole. I've never had to make a phone call (or otherwise had Windows genuineness affected) from either a service pack update or any other Windows update.

You probably know this, but .NET != "graphics". The vast majority of .NET code that I've written (starting in 2002) had nothing to do with graphics and as often as not didn't even have a user interface. The graphics element in the room related to .NET is WPF, to which Logos 4 hitched its wagon. At the time, I thought it seemed like a reasonable choice. But technological events overtook MS in that area - recall that this was before iPhone 1. Even Apple didn't predict what would happen with smartphones, as Steve Jobs originally was fully resistant to 3rd party apps running on the iPhone.

I think your prediction is too conservative. Logos 6 won't be using WPF, for two reasons: a) MS seems to be marginalizing it (overtaken by events); b) the degree of portability required across as much of the code base as possible to deal with all the target platforms will rule it out. If Logos 6 or beyond isn't using *.NET*, it will be for the latter reason.

that does not negate the moral culpability of Microsoft to deliver what I paid for.

Regarding this, and taking a concrete sliver of the whole MS pie, what would Microsoft delivering what you paid for look like in the case of Windows XP?

Donnie

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396418#Comment_396418

I should not have to make a phone call after every service pack update

That seems like a bit of frustration-induced hyperbole. I've never had to make a phone call (or otherwise had Windows genuineness affected) from either a service pack update or any other Windows update.

Likewise. A Genuine Windows check can occur with any Windows Update or before downloading certain software from the MS site. Super Tramp's dilemma is unusual if it arises after a SP update. Either Super Tramp has since misused the Product Key (?), quickly installed some new hardware after each SP (?) or MS haven't permanently resolved the status of the Product Key!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/396465#Comment_396465

Super Tramp's dilemma is unusual if it arises after a SP update. Either Super Tramp has since misused the Product Key (?), quickly installed some new hardware after each SP (?) or MS haven't permanently resolved the status of the Product Key!

I updated to the latest Service Pack two days before I got the "not genuine" notice. No new hardware was installed. I never used the license on another machine. The install was a "restore to factory settings" using the original OEM image. I never had that notice until this week. on this computer. I have had similar situations on WinXP machines and read of many others with the same.

It did appear immediately after an Avast boot time deep scan. Any relation?

Frustration? Yes! Hyperbole? I dunno.