NIV English–Hebrew Reverse Interlinear

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 6:13 PM

Should have been available day one, they aren't taking care of current customers who have already made significant investments in Logos.

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P A | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 11:29 AM

Bump

When?Wink

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Dennis Audet | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 5:59 AM

I see that the NIV English–Hebrew Reverse Interlinear was removed from the LOGOS 5 Interlinear Bibles content yesterday.  No

This resource was supposed to be a Logos 4.0 deliverable which we paid for. 

What is going On?????

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 6:56 AM

The NIV English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Bible is still being worked on. It is nearing completion, we only have Numbers and Deuteronomy left to align.

Suffice it to say, we have had a number of bumps (not to mention chasms) along the road on this one. Some under our control, some out of our control.

I wish it was different, and I wish this work was done and being used by you folks right now. That is my goal, and what I want to happen as soon as possible. But it is going to be just a bit longer. I wish I could definitively say "It will be X weeks." But I can't.

Know that I'm well aware we haven't shipped this yet. It is not forgotten. Know we are working on it. Know that we want it done just as much, if not more, than you do.

Thanks for your patience with us as we work on completing this particular alignment.

Rick Brannan
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Dennis Audet | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 7:41 AM

Rick,

It's nice to get a credible response from a Logos person. I understand it's still not ready. Sad  However, Yesterday morning it was on the L5 resource list, as it was on L4, and now it's not on the L5 resource list. If I were to pay Logos they way Logos delivers this resource (waiting some 2 years now), Logos would not be very happy. But I am keeping the faith and trust that Logos will come through in the not too distant future (before the rapture) and I will get what I paid for a long time ago..... believe it or not I am trying to keep a good humor about this. Big Smile I pray for your success. Amen

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 9:05 AM

Dennis Audet:
believe it or not I am trying to keep a good humor about this

Thanks, Dennis. We appreciate it.

Rick Brannan
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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 10:28 PM

fgh:

Rick Brannan (Logos):
Reverse interlinears of the Old Testament typically take around a year of concerted effort on the part of an editor.

Rick, if OT RI's typically take a year, you'd expect an Apocrypha RI to take considerably less, so what's holding up the English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the NRSV Apocryphal Texts?

Bump.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 10:48 PM

fgh:

fgh:

Rick Brannan (Logos):
Reverse interlinears of the Old Testament typically take around a year of concerted effort on the part of an editor.

Rick, if OT RI's typically take a year, you'd expect an Apocrypha RI to take considerably less, so what's holding up the English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the NRSV Apocryphal Texts?

Bump.

Basically, we've never done a reverse interlinear of apocryphal/deuterocanonical material, and have encountered issues, both with the data and also with the toolset — which is in need of revamping/rewriting, and has had issues working with the "wonderful variation" of apoc/deut versification. On the bright side, we're learning a lot!

One example: The basis of Tobit in the NRSV is a bit of a pastiche. There were issues with determining which Greek text was actually translated; or at least which Greek text is the better of the two available to align against. So we've had to do some picking and choosing between the normal and 'alternate' editions of things in Rahlfs to build a dataset that represents the vorlage of the apoc/deut material.

However, we are actively working on getting through these issues and getting this one out the door into the hands of users. No promises or time estimates, but it is now at the top of someone's post-Logos-5 tasklist.

Rick Brannan
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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 3:23 AM

Thanks for the update, and sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. Too many posts lately...

Rick Brannan (Logos):
the "wonderful variation" of apoc/deut versification

Big Smile

Rick Brannan (Logos):
it is now at the top of someone's post-Logos-5 tasklist

That is good in one sense, of course, and I realize there are difficulties. Nevertheless, I don't quite like the sound of that. Quite a few people payed for this a year ago, and you're saying it was put aside to work on L5? That doesn't sound right to me. 

Furthermore, to lots of us this is Bible text, Logos is supposed to be first and foremost a Bible study software, and that software is programmed in such a way that much of its functionality can't be accessed without an RI. That leaves us crippled when studying this part of the Bible. This should have been done years ago. You should be working on the third or fourth Apocrypha RI by now. (Imagine the uproar if it had been the Reformed who had the larger canon!Stick out tongue)

Which naturally leads to the question: how is it possible that this RI isn't included in the regular base packages? 

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 9:50 AM

fgh:
Quite a few people payed for this a year ago, and you're saying it was put aside to work on L5? That doesn't sound right to me. 

This is a pre-pub, so I don't believe anyone has paid for it yet. When it is complete, the pre-pub will be fulfilled.

fgh:
Furthermore, to lots of us this is Bible text, Logos is supposed to be first and foremost a Bible study software, and that software is programmed in such a way that much of its functionality can't be accessed without an RI. That leaves us crippled when studying this part of the Bible. This should have been done years ago.

I understand different canons of different traditions. This is one reason why I pitched this project—it's important. It has had issues along the way; I don't think I need to go into any more detail than that. I appreciate that you and others want it. We want it too (and it is closer to being done every day).

It wasn't relegated to nothingness in the past; the alignment has been roughly complete and the process of building and verifying the reverse interlinear has been going on. It just hasn't been the first priority of anyone. It now is; and is much further along than it would have been because we did spend some time on it, juggling amidst a sea of priorities, in the past year.

Hope it helps.

Rick Brannan
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Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 10:02 AM

Sorry Rick, we tend to get caught up in the frenzy and become accusatory.  You and the team are greatly appreciated.

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Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 11:34 AM

Dennis Audet:
Yesterday morning it was on the L5 resource list, as it was on L4, and now it's not on the L5 resource list.

Does this mean that those who purchased an L5 upgrade (or Logos 4) will still automatically receive it when completed?

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Isaiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 28 2013 3:49 PM

Rick Brannan (Logos):

Hi David & Dennis.

David Taylor Jr:

Dennis Audet:

When will the NIV English–Hebrew Reverse Interlinear be available?

We've been patiently waiting for its release.

Logos, please reply. Thanks

Also wondering the same thing....

Thanks for your patience. We have been working on it.

Reverse interlinears of the Old Testament typically take around a year of concerted effort on the part of an editor. Without giving all the details, this one was thrown for a loop when the 2011 NIV came out and has had some other speedbumps along the way; some technical, and some otherwise. We've adjusted all of the alignments based on the previous NIV and are well on our way to completing this one. There is a possibility it will be done by the end of the year (2012), but it might slide into Q1 2013.

I know that's not optimal, but that's where we are right now.

[Drumroll] ... The OT Hebrew alignment for the NIV (2011) will be shipping soon, perhaps in the next couple weeks. Here's a sample of what to expect:

Again, thanks to everyone for their patience!

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 28 2013 4:13 PM

The sample is a little underwhelming. Wink

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Isaiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 28 2013 4:23 PM

alabama24:

The sample is a little underwhelming. Wink

Sorry about that. It's fixed now. ih.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 28 2013 4:25 PM

No problem. Welcome to the forums. Smile

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 28 2013 4:53 PM

Drumroll] ... The OT Hebrew alignment for the NIV (2011) will be shipping soon, perhaps in the next couple weeks. Here's a sample of what to expect:

Again, thanks to everyone for their patience!

Peace, Isaiah!        *smile*

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 28 2013 7:58 PM

Isaiah:
[Drumroll] ... The OT Hebrew alignment for the NIV (2011) will be shipping soon, perhaps in the next couple weeks.

Great news.

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Posts 159
Dennis Audet | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 29 2013 3:07 AM

Isaiah,

Thanks for the heads-up.

I am anxious to see and use the new NIV OT reverse-interlinear.

I am wondering if it will have the new Logos 5 interlinear features of Root, Root transliteration, & Sense as well as the typical manuscript and lemma transliterations which I do not see displayed in the sample. Perhaps a snapshot of the "Display" option list would clear up this uncertainty for the OT portion and if the display option list contains options that do not apply to the OT, you might point that out... Thanks

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John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 1 2013 7:39 PM

Just got the update! I am sure there will be several happy campers...

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