Complex Search

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Matthew Godwin | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Sep 4 2012 12:51 PM

Hi - serial forum lurker here... I'm starting to dig a little deeper into Logos (I have Platinum plus bits and bobs) in line with my studies and need to begin doing more complex searches.  More specifically, today I'm trying to find instances of 'sin' modified by an adjective... I've looked at the wiki, but it's all a little beyond me so far.  How would I go about formulating such a search?

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 1:30 PM

I'm not sure but I would like to find out as well, sounds like an interesting search criteria.

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Matthew Godwin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 2:45 PM

David Taylor Jr:

I'm not sure but I would like to find out as well, sounds like an interesting search criteria.

 

Thanks - I thought so too... It was a genuine question...

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Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 4:06 PM

Matthew Godwin:
I'm trying to find instances of 'sin' modified by an adjective

Here's a start with a syntax search:

I first found an example of sin (ἁμαρτία) modified by an adj --- Matt. 12:31. I opened this in Cascadia Syntax Graphs and used it as an example of how to formulate the syntax search.

It has a nominal phrase consisting of an adj phrase and another nominal phrase. For the 2nd nominal phrase, I set the head lemma to be ἁμαρτία. For the adj phrase, I set the morphology to be an adj.

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 5:45 PM

Whilst generally not as accurate as a Syntax search, a Morph Search is a lot easier to formulate. Try

lemma:ἁμαρτία WITHIN 1 word @J

if you use the English word "sin" you will get verbs (to sin) as well as nouns, so use a Greek lemma, because you can modify it (if necessary) as follows:

lemma:ἁμαρτία@N WITHIN 1 word @J

 

If the modifier (@J) must precede the Noun then use:-

lemma:ἁμαρτία AFTER 1 word @J

If you want to add another lemma for "sin" then use a List:-

(lemma:ἁμαρτία,  lemma:ἁμάρτημα) AFTER 1 word @J

If you don't like AFTER then use:-

@J BEFORE 1 word (lemma:ἁμαρτία,  lemma:ἁμάρτημα)

 

The wiki on Search should begin to make a little more sense by now!

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 5:50 PM

I don't understand morphology at all, where can I learn more about this?

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 6:15 PM

http://wiki.logos.com/Morphological_Search

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Rick Brannan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 10:02 PM

Hi Matthew (and others)

Matthew Godwin:

Hi - serial forum lurker here... I'm starting to dig a little deeper into Logos (I have Platinum plus bits and bobs) in line with my studies and need to begin doing more complex searches.  More specifically, today I'm trying to find instances of 'sin' modified by an adjective... I've looked at the wiki, but it's all a little beyond me so far.  How would I go about formulating such a search?

If you have the Cascadia Syntax Graphs, you can use a quer template to find "English Adjectival Modification". Open a search, select "Syntax" (fourth item, right of window). From there, see the "Query" drop-down? Click it. You should see something like this (I'm on Windows):

Select it. This will pop a little dialog box into the search window, where you can type "sin", like this:

Type "sin" in the box with the greyed-out text. Then click "Go". A syntax search is running behind the scenes to get this information for you. All the words with an English gloss of "sin" are evaluated for their relationships, and when an adjectival modification occurs, you get a search hit.

So you get the benefit of syntax searching, but without having to form a query. Bonus: This will save a query, and you can then open it from the File Menu, and see the sort of query it made.

There is a similar query template for the Andersen-Forbes syntax analysis of the Hebrew Bible, if you're interested in OT relationships too.

You can watch a video on using query templates here: http://youtu.be/dmar7jHT4hQ

Hope it helps.

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Posts 73
Matthew Godwin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 11:19 PM

Thanks to everyone for the help - I'm going to work through your explanations and hopefully get the hang of doing it myself...

Thanks again!

 

Edit: I worked through the Syntax Graph example and then found the syntax search query, which I'm pretty sure I understand!  Amazing stuff - thanks...

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Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 4:35 AM

Rick Brannan:
If you have the Cascadia Syntax Graphs, you can use a quer template to find "English Adjectival Modification".

Thanks for the info -- I wasn't aware of these built in templates. This should make syntax searches much more accessible. One question is when I run the example you presented, my results are far from what I would expect. Here's the results I got -- have I missed a step?

Rick Brannan:
Bonus: This will save a query, and you can then open it from the File Menu, and see the sort of query it made.

I also don't see where I can open this from the file menu to see how the query was structured.

 

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Matthew Godwin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 11:33 AM

Gary O'Neal:

Rick Brannan:
If you have the Cascadia Syntax Graphs, you can use a quer template to find "English Adjectival Modification".

Thanks for the info -- I wasn't aware of these built in templates. This should make syntax searches much more accessible. One question is when I run the example you presented, my results are far from what I would expect. Here's the results I got -- have I missed a step?

Rick Brannan:
Bonus: This will save a query, and you can then open it from the File Menu, and see the sort of query it made.

I also don't see where I can open this from the file menu to see how the query was structured.

 

 

Hi Gary, I clicked on 'Add Versions' and added ESV and then had two columns, Greek on the left and ESV on the right.  This showed the relevant verses.  Under files, there was an untitled syntax search which showed this search when I opened it... Hope this helps

 

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Rick Brannan | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 11:45 AM

These are the results of the queries.

On the saving of the query, I was mistaken. What I was thinking was that you can actually open up one of these query templates from a blank syntax search document. Note the "Templates" list on the right of the editor:

If you click the "English Adjectival Modification" template, you'll get something like the following, which can then be edited further.

The search will be now be remembered in the "Previous searches" list, so you can go back to it later if you'd like.

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Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 11:56 AM

Matthew Godwin:
Hi Gary, I clicked on 'Add Versions' and added ESV and then had two columns, Greek on the left and ESV on the right.

It wasn't the additional version that I was concerned about. Did your search return the same verses mine did? Of the six hits, only one of them is an adjective modifying 'sin'.

Matthew Godwin:
Under files, there was an untitled syntax search which showed this search when I opened it.

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place for this. When I run the search with the query template, I click the File menu in the main program--this is where I expected to see the Untitled Syntax Search.

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Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 11:58 AM

Rick Brannan:
On the saving of the query, I was mistaken. What I was thinking was that you can actually open up one of these query templates from a blank syntax search document. Note the "Templates" list on the right of the editor:

Ok. That makes sense. I'll take a look at how this is structured and what it is searching for. The results I got from this were inaccurate.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 8:26 PM

Gary O'Neal:
Ok. That makes sense. I'll take a look at how this is structured and what it is searching for. The results I got from this were inaccurate.

The English and Greek templates are  inaccurate a start! Suitably modified you are then at the mercy of the syntactic tagging  e.g.

Note that I quickly found that adjectival phrases are not always terminated by an adjective!

Compared to my text search earlier in the thread this has extra results at Mk 3:28, Jn 8:34 & 1 Jn 3:4 and you have to decide if these are relevant. But it misses 2 Pe 2:14 because "some adverbial phrases also modify nouns ...". If I include Adverbial phrases in Phrase 3 the missing result is included WITHOUT spurious results because of the Nouns specified at Word 1. Then we can drop Numeric phrases from the query!

My strategy is always to develop a text search first and get some expected results from which I can model the Syntax search. But the time taken to develop a Syntax query can often outweigh any advantage.

Dave
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Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 3:40 AM

Dave Hooton:
The English and Greek templates are  inaccurate a start! Suitably modified you are then at the mercy of the syntactic tagging  e.g.

Ok. Maybe inaccurate is too strong. But of the 6 (?) results returned, only one was actually the word 'sin' modified by an adj. I found the OpenText template for this much more accurate relevant. Here's how I modified it:

I just added the lemmas and removed the 'qualifier' from each of the Modifier boxes.

Dave Hooton:
it misses 2 Pe 2:14 because "some adverbial phrases also modify nouns

For the OP's search request, it shouldn't return 2Pe 2:14 -- the noun ἁμαρτίας modifies the adj ἀκαταπαύστους which modifies ὀφθαλμοὺς.

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