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Butters | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Sep 8 2012 8:40 AM

I'm quite new to this software and I must admit I find it a bit arcane.  lol.  Am I doing something wrong in the steps below?  

Say I click on a word in a text on my iPad - and in the little box I see some basic morphological information, a so-so gloss, and the lemma.  

I can from there chose "Search" - in which case a search result is shown on the sliding panel.  

And yet, first of all, it appears the search wasn't done on the lemma but on the morphed form of the word.  

And, moreover, the lexicons I am looking for are frequently not there, or they are way down the list.  Why not allow me to choose a default or preferred lexicon?  Moreover, why not allow me to have a split screen and allow my "search" to go directly into the right place of the text of the lexicon.  There are free ipad apps that do this.  

Or am I missing something and I'm an idiot?  LOL?  Prolly. 

 

 

 

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 11:24 AM

Mr. Micawber:
And yet, first of all, it appears the search wasn't done on the lemma but on the morphed form of the word.

I am not a language expert, but I don't believe that is what I experienced. Can you give a screen shot? (I will try to do the same).

Mr. Micawber:
And, moreover, the lexicons I am looking for are frequently not there, or they are way down the list.  Why not allow me to choose a default or preferred lexicon?

This has been an issue for  a while. Presumably, they will move towards having your preferred lexicons (as long as they are mobile enabled), but this has yet to happen.

Mr. Micawber:
Moreover, why not allow me to have a split screen and allow my "search" to go directly into the right place of the text of the lexicon.

I'm not quite sure what you are asking... you can do word studies in split screen.

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Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 12:19 PM

Otay, let me start with something basic.  There you are in your screenshot with your box showing the lemma:  προφητεία.  

Okay, now:  how would you in one step see, say, the entire LSJ definition?  

 

 

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 3:30 PM

Mr. Micawber:

Otay, let me start with something basic.  There you are in your screenshot with your box showing the lemma:  προφητεία.  

Okay, now:  how would you in one step see, say, the entire LSJ definition?  

Or, seeing as you have the BDAG, the same question but replace LSJ with BDAG?  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 3:59 PM

To see the BDAG entire article click on the initials BDAG In the Word Study entry at the top of the screen. It is a link. As A24 pointed out you cannot get directly to a lexicon from the pop-up screen. You have to use the Word Study tool.

As to your initial reactions, please remember that Logos 4 for the computer (PC/Mac) is Logos' Bible study program. The iOS app is a very simple tool for those of us who asked Logos to provide a mobile app.

 

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 8:38 PM

Mark Smith:

The iOS app is a very simple tool for those of us who asked Logos to provide a mobile app

Isn't that exactly it?  The iOS app tries to do too much, really - and yet isn't going to be (at least not in the near future) a robust research tool.

And yet, at the same time, it cannot do relatively simple things - things more in line with a portable reader - like linking a word directly to a lexicographical entry.  As I mentioned, there are free apps that do this. 

I'm a newbie around here; I realize that.  But I must say, after having spent a bit of time with this software, both L4 and the iOS version, it has the feel of something written to be as forbidding and non-intuitive as possible.

 

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 9 2012 3:19 PM

Mr. Micawber:
I'm a newbie around here; I realize that.  But I must say, after having spent a bit of time with this software, both L4 and the iOS version, it has the feel of something written to be as forbidding and non-intuitive as possible.

Newbie reactions are very useful to developers, so it is good to hear them.

It may be that Logos wants to eventually develop a serious iPad/iPhone research tool, but if so, they haven't said so. They have said that they make almost nothing in sales with their iOS app. The app is free, of course, but they must not be selling additional product among those who are iOS users only. Perhaps this is because the app doesn't compete well with other as you point out.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1
Michael Lambelet | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 9 2012 4:00 PM

I have had the same frustrations using a lexicon. One big problem is say in screen 1 is a Bible text and in screen 2 a Bible word study. If I click BDAG in the Bible word study, it appears in screen 1, replacing my Bible text. Then I have to click one of the screens to navigate back to the Bible text through the history. As was already pointed out, this is something very simple. And one other thing, why are there not back buttons in each screen? Why can't I have a Bible word study open, click BDAG, have it open over the Bible word study, and then have a back button to make it go back to the word study? That seems simple.

I am very grateful to the Lord for this tool. These are just some ways it could be improved to encourage more use in the study of God's Word.

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 9 2012 5:10 PM

Mark Smith:

Mr. Micawber:
I'm a newbie around here; I realize that.  But I must say, after having spent a bit of time with this software, both L4 and the iOS version, it has the feel of something written to be as forbidding and non-intuitive as possible.

Newbie reactions are very useful to developers, so it is good to hear them.

It may be that Logos wants to eventually develop a serious iPad/iPhone research tool, but if so, they haven't said so. They have said that they make almost nothing in sales with their iOS app. The app is free, of course, but they must not be selling additional product among those who are iOS users only. Perhaps this is because the app doesn't compete well with other as you point out.

I can't say for sure - this isn't my business - but I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future a very large portion of new customers will come to Logos via the Logos iOS as a kind of entryway to to Logos 4, etc.  An analogy:  manufacturers of prints take a loss on the sale of printers; they make all their money on cartridges; similarly, logos iOS could be an entryway, enticing people into Logos 4, and thereby into buying Logos content, where no doubt the real money is made.  

 

 

 

 

 

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 9 2012 5:22 PM

Michael Lambelet:

I have had the same frustrations using a lexicon. One big problem is say in screen 1 is a Bible text and in screen 2 a Bible word study. If I click BDAG in the Bible word study, it appears in screen 1, replacing my Bible text. Then I have to click one of the screens to navigate back to the Bible text through the history. As was already pointed out, this is something very simple. And one other thing, why are there not back buttons in each screen? Why can't I have a Bible word study open, click BDAG, have it open over the Bible word study, and then have a back button to make it go back to the word study? That seems simple.

I am very grateful to the Lord for this tool. These are just some ways it could be improved to encourage more use in the study of God's Word.

I agree wholeheartedly.  As well, I am very grateful for what Logos offers.  

Technology/software, however, should ideally become transparent.  The point, after all, is to read and/or study the Bible.  Not to fool around with complicated software, whether you are researching or merely reading.  It's like the person who goes into the hardware store looking for a 3/8ths drill bit - what is he really looking for?  A 3/8ths hole in the wall.  The drill bit is merely a means - and nothing more.  

The best software - even extremely complicated & powerful software - is marked by simplicity and ease of use.  If you sit my mother down at an apple computer, the software is generally very easy to use.  But it's still powerful; and the more you use it, the more you learn how to use its power.

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 9 2012 5:31 PM

Mr. Micawber:
I can't say for sure - this isn't my business - but I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future a very large portion of new customers will come to Logos via the Logos iOS as a kind of entryway to to Logos 4, etc.  An analogy:  manufacturers of prints take a loss on the sale of printers; they make all their money on cartridges; similarly, logos iOS could be an entryway, enticing people into Logos 4, and thereby into buying Logos content, where no doubt the real money is made.  

I think your points are well-made and there are plenty of us who'd like to see an easier to use and more powerful iOS app.

There is a Suggestions Forum that Logos monitors where you could make specific suggestions for improvement. There is also a Logos uservoice site with some existing iOS (iPad/iPhone) app suggestions. You can vote for those you like and add others that are missing. http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 9 2012 7:06 PM

Hi Michael

Michael Lambelet:
Then I have to click one of the screens to navigate back to the Bible text through the history.
When your Bible has been replaced by a lexicon and you want your Bible back, just do a two finger swipe to the right over the lexicon and your Bible will reappear.

Michael Lambelet:
click BDAG, have it open over the Bible word study, and then have a back button to make it go back to the word study?
When you tap the lexicon a arrow will appear in the upper left. Tap it and you Bible will reappear or like I said you can do a two finger swipe to the right.  I am using an iPad and I don't have an iPhone so I don't know if the same rules apply.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

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Gregory Kuehn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 9 2013 9:49 AM

How can I choose what lexicons come up on the app?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 9 2013 12:40 PM

Greg - First, welcome to the forums! Smile

Gregory Kuehn:

How can I choose what lexicons come up on the app? 

Do you own a base package, or are you just using free resources? Do you use L4 or L5? Are you trying to do a word study?

PS - In the future it would be better to start a new thread… it's easier to keep track of conversations that way.

 

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