Wow Logos on the Mac is so sub-par

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iamk | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Sep 12 2012 7:31 AM

I would like to kindly and respectfully say that it's troubling that Logos sold this package as a viable piece of software. I have never used an app on my mac that runs so terribly and is laden with so many bugs, spinning beach balls, crashes etc. I used to love this company, but I will not invest another dime in this company until I've seen real change in their business model and in the quality of this program. In the meantime, I'm on the fence about whether I will even keep logos. I need Bible software that works. It's such a tremendous letdown from a company that I used to be an outspoken advocate for.

I'm still hopeful, but I'm doubting they are going to actually do much about these issues. 

 

ps- what's the process for selling logos resources?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 7:43 AM

iamk:
I have never used an app on my mac that runs so terribly and is laden with so many bugs, spinning beach balls, crashes etc.

Have you come to the forum for help? I see that you post pretty infrequently. If you are having problems, why don't you come and ask for help? I will follow up in your other thread.

iamk:
ps- what's the process for selling logos resources?

Find a buyer somewhere other than the forums. Contact Logos and pay the transfer fee.

 

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Posts 143
iamk | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 7:53 AM

Thanks Alabama. I don't want to seem angry or obnoxious. I am simply trying to communicate my thoughts that it seems to be an unacceptable business model.

 

I often come to the forums and search for my issue and find solutions. If I'm not mistaken, this should be our first step. Perhaps, I'm just lazy, but even having to come and search for fixes to problems often is not acceptable. It's very un-mac-like. On the mac, most apps simply work and get out of the way. I know that troubleshooting will be needed at times, but the frequency of it on logos4mac is too often.

Posts 219
Dennis Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 8:46 AM

iamk:

Thanks Alabama. I don't want to seem angry or obnoxious. I am simply trying to communicate my thoughts that it seems to be an unacceptable business model.

 

I often come to the forums and search for my issue and find solutions. If I'm not mistaken, this should be our first step. Perhaps, I'm just lazy, but even having to come and search for fixes to problems often is not acceptable. It's very un-mac-like. On the mac, most apps simply work and get out of the way. I know that troubleshooting will be needed at times, but the frequency of it on logos4mac is too often.

You're not alone in your opinion or feelings concerning the Mac version of Logos. Logos used to be my #1 bible software package until I switched to Mac a few years ago and bought into the L4 hype. I am considering abandoning the Mac version altogether and returning to limited use on one of my Windows PC's or thru virtualizaiton which I don't use much anymore. It's a shame, Logos has so much to offer and has been such an awesome product in the past but L4 has been a big disappointment for me and turned Logos into my #2 app now.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 8:54 AM

That is Logos Mac main problem, as pointed out elsewhere I do believe the programmers are doing their best, but they have certain limiting factors due to the fact they are forced to use inferior programming setup. Mac programers using the early alpha versions warned Logos it was a dead end, Bob admits now it was a mistake, but what has done can not easily be undone. Logos mac will likely always have it's limitations until  it is completely revamped and that seems unlikely. It has also been pointed out that Logos is having trouble getting more good mac programers. I have simply come to accept Logos Mac for what it is, I have a large Library in Logos, but if it were using some universal standard (no such thing) i would switch all my items over to a more stable mac friendly software. While Logos Mac may truly be sub-par, their selection of resources is tremendous and for me keeps me using the software.

 

-Dan

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 9:03 AM

From what I understand, Logos uses .Net3.5. Mac shares the code with windows. .Net 4.0 has issues. When Microsoft releases .Net 4.5 on October 26, Logos will adopt it, and this will remove some limitations that they have and make the program much better.

XP and the mac Os that they plan to drop may not be able to handle .Net 4.5. Lets see what happens when .Net 4.5 is implemented. Hopefully, the mac users will get an update on their program which will improve responsiveness and stability.

Lynden Williams Communications

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 9:19 AM

Lynden Williams:

From what I understand, Logos uses .Net3.5. Mac shares the code with windows. .Net 4.0 has issues. When Microsoft releases .Net 4.5 on October 26, Logos will adopt it, and this will remove some limitations that they have and make the program much better.

XP and the mac Os that they plan to drop may not be able to handle .Net 4.5. Lets see what happens when .Net 4.5 is implemented. Hopefully, the mac users will get an update on their program which will improve responsiveness and stability.

Does anyone at Logos blog about things like this so we can have some visibility for what's in store for the future?  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 9:24 AM

Mr. Micawber:
Does anyone at Logos blog about things like this so we can have some visibility for what's in store for the future?

Found the info on the forums. I think Bob Pritchett mentioned it, but not sure.

Lynden Williams Communications

Posts 2848
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 10:01 AM

I'm curious what the OP has done to resolve his problems with Logos 4 Mac. I'm using it regularly on an older Mac and while it's not as nimble as on the PC, it works OK and they keep improving it. The biggest problem I have with L4M is my machine, not Logos. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 12:11 PM

Dan Francis:
While Logos Mac may truly be sub-par, their selection of resources is tremendous and for me keeps me using the software.

That is also my situation.

Posts 1956
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 3:14 PM

I can imagine the Logos employees reading these forums can get discouraged at times. I would. I have tried to present my critique in a way that is clear, but does not make it personal. I sometimes think part of the reason people turn up the volume on their critique is that the marketing claims and optimism does not alleviate the worn patience of users that have hung with this process for three years or more.

Personally, there has not been a release that I have been at ease with. Even in this most recent release there is a bug that has made my fonts in my notes large. Over the weekend it crashed twice and I found three UI problems.  Did I get the job done?  Yes.  But with that and even cutting it slack knowing that no software is perfect, it's just feels like beta software.

What keeps me using it instead of solely using the other program I have?  A sizeable investment in resources I made prior to going to Mac. Though the software would be stunning if it could do all that it is supposed to, this is what is carrying the momentum forward.

A solution that I am working on is setting up Logos under Parallels again the next time I am in the States. This is less than desirable on many levels though, but if the Windows version returns some sanity to this again, it will outweigh running it in a native OSX environment.

In closing, where there is a void commercially, there will be an answer. I know many friends who switched to Mac because they were fed up with Windows issues. If this continues, it will feed competition and all of us will benefit as they get stronger, and we have other options for resources.  In the meantime, the consumer has to struggle through it. I am glad for some of the things Logos can do but I am also glad I don't have to fully depend on it.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 4:42 PM

Donovan R. Palmer:
I can imagine the Logos employees reading these forums can get discouraged at times. I would. I have tried to present my critique in a way that is clear, but does not make it personal. I sometimes think part of the reason people turn up the volume on their critique is that the marketing claims and optimism does not alleviate the worn patience of users that have hung with this process for three years or more.

I hope that all the programers realize I appreciate their work, when you are provided hamburger to work with, you do we'll to make salisbury steak. It may not feel overly mac like to me, but I have seen the windows version and am very thankful for the interface they have given us. It is frustrating but they are competent, errors pop up but are corrected quickly. It was disappointing to hear them tell us optimizing  is no longer considered a priority but such is life...

-Dan

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 5:05 PM

Dan Francis:
errors pop up but are corrected quickly

Your definition of "quickly" must be different than mine. I know of plenty of bugs that have been there for two years.

Dan Francis:
It was disappointing to hear them tell us optimizing  is no longer considered a priority

Where did you hear that?

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 6:37 PM

Dan Francis:
It was disappointing to hear them tell us optimizing  is no longer considered a priority

Bob didn't say that. I assume you refer to the user voice comments. He said something like "we know this is an ongoing issue, we are working on it, so I'm going to release the votes for other issues."

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Todd White (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2012 10:30 PM

iamk:

I would like to kindly and respectfully say that it's troubling that Logos sold this package as a viable piece of software. I have never used an app on my mac that runs so terribly and is laden with so many bugs, spinning beach balls, crashes etc. I used to love this company, but I will not invest another dime in this company until I've seen real change in their business model and in the quality of this program. In the meantime, I'm on the fence about whether I will even keep logos. I need Bible software that works. It's such a tremendous letdown from a company that I used to be an outspoken advocate for.

I'm still hopeful, but I'm doubting they are going to actually do much about these issues. 

I'm sorry you are disappointed with our current Mac offering. We value our Mac customers and continue to put great effort into improving the Mac product. If you look at the last few releases (4.5c, 4.6) you will see a lot of effort has gone into making the Mac more stable, faster, and closer in parity with our Windows offering.

The next beta 4.6a, which should be available next week, will continue the trend of maturing our Mac platform. This will include better performance when doing verses/aligned bible/morph searches, improvements to loading maps in places, plus 50+ bugs and parity issues.

I understand your frustration of not having software that just works and appreciate your honest feedback. If there are particular issues that seem to cause crashes, bugs, or beach balls feel free to send an email to logos4feedback@logos.com. I hope that our track record of continuing to offer frequent updates to the software give you confidence in our commitment to this platform.

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 13 2012 7:23 AM

Todd, 

Thanks for your thoughtful post.  

I suppose one of the things that perplexes me is the bewildering array of projects that Logos seems to take on that seem - perhaps I'm wrong - a bit peripheral when compared to getting L4Mac up to par.  FaithLife, Vyrso....and who knows what else.  

I even saw the other day that Logos is going to make a virtual flashcard reader - a great add on, if your core software is already stellar.  If it's not stellar, why do it?  There are plenty of very good virtual flashcard makers out there - and these people are focused on just that: virtual flashcards.  Even if you do end up producing a better flashcard program, isn't that diverting resources unnecessarily?

I love and appreciate what you guys do - just feedback from someone who may completely misunderstand your business model, et cetera.  Just my two centavos.  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 13 2012 9:16 AM

Mr. Micawber:
I even saw the other day that Logos is going to make a virtual flashcard reader

...because it is repeatedly asked for. Personally, I could care less about it (but I reserve the right to change my mind Smile)

Mr. Micawber:
I suppose one of the things that perplexes me is the bewildering array of projects that Logos seems to take on that seem - perhaps I'm wrong - a bit peripheral when compared to getting L4Mac up to par.  FaithLife, Vyrso....and who knows what else.

Some of those things are needed to keep the company heading in the right direction. 

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Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 13 2012 9:29 AM

alabama24:

...because it is repeatedly asked for. Personally, I could care less about it (but I reserve the right to change my mind Smile)

 

I use anki presently; I would find it useful actually.   I just think it's insane to make this a priority when L4Mac is still so unstable.  

 

alabama24:
 Some of those things are needed to keep the company heading in the right direction. 

I see. 

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 74
Monroe R Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 13 2012 9:55 AM

One wonders what is this "right direction" of which you speak? It sounds to me like another instance of marketing and sales taking precedence over quality.

Rich+

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 13 2012 10:14 AM

Monroe R Miller:
One wonders what is this "right direction" of which you speak?

The "right direction" is to keep the company competitive. Logos doesn't make one cent from the software... the sale of resources is what keeps them in business. To develop the software takes capitol... which means that Logos must be looking at where the market is going. Logos is doing just fine financially now, but that could change overnight. For example: Consider that five years ago the world had yet to see an iPhone and Nokia and Blackberry reigned supreme. Both companies are shells of their former selves. 

Monroe R Miller:
It sounds to me like another instance of marketing and sales taking precedence over quality.

As I have said, the company needs to sell resources to raise capitol in order to further develop the features and quality of the software. The development of Faithlife and Vyrso help to ensure that future.

I am a diehard Mac Addict. There are other Mac Addicts who cringe at the success of the iOS devices. I know, however, that the success of those departments help to keep Apple a great, vibrant, and relevant company. Faithlife and Vyrso will perhaps do the same thing for Logos.

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