Wow Logos on the Mac is so sub-par

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This post has 211 Replies | 11 Followers

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 13 2012 5:07 PM

EmileB:
And gotta agree about those folks with the high post counts! How in the world do they DO that????

Learned long ago that Rosie never sleeps. Saw an input by MJ this morning that was posted at 0145 her time.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 13 2012 6:11 PM

EmileB:

And gotta agree about those folks with the high post counts! How in the world do they DO that????

Since God had provided full time employment, my forum involvement has reduced so tend to read a few forums plus use Logos some; would like to spend a bit more time each day using Logos.

Thankful for Logos, the software, company, and especially God.

Thankful for awesome Bible Study capabilities using Logos Bible Software on Mac & PC.

Keep Smiling Smile]

Posts 16
Donald E. Stidwell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 13 2012 7:30 PM

I haven't read every entry in this thread, but I'm rather surprised that so many seem to find the Mac version inadequate. Somewhere in this thread someone mentioned that a lot of Mac users aren't posting because they're happily using the program. Here I raise my hand as one of those users. 

I originally bought the Windows version of the program, even though I'm primarily a Mac user, because I wanted a program as good as Accordance on my one Windows PC and Logos filled the bill. At that time the Mac version of Logos 4 was in ALPHA state and honestly, I didn't expect much from it. In fact, I really had no plans to use Logos 4 on my Mac at all - that I could was just kind of a nice "freebie". But Accordance was my Mac program and I saw no reason to think I'd ever seriously use Logos on my Mac.

Well, a funny thing has happened since the Logos 4 Mac Alpha days. I'm still primarily a Mac user (using a 2011 Macbook Air 11") and now Logos has become my primary Bible study program. This is due to the fact that Logos makes programs for every gadget I own - a Mac version, a Windows version, an iOS version and an Android version. So this means no matter what gadget I pick up - be it my MBA, my Windows laptop, my Nexus 7, my Galaxy S3 or my iPod Touch - Logos is there with most of my resources available. The fact that Logos is the only Bible program I own that is available on so many platforms makes its use as my primary rather much a forgone conclusion.

I am not a pastor, nor a scholar. I'm a church member who is intensely interested in reading and studying the Bible from a layman's perspective. And for my use, Logos 4 Mac has worked just fine. Yes, I still have Accordance on my Mac and yes I keep it updated. But since I'm using Logos 4 on every other platform I own, it just makes sense that I'd spend more time with it on my Mac than I do with Accordance. For me, the performance and stability of Logos 4 Mac has been fine and I don't recall the last time it hung up, pinwheeled or crashed on me. Again, I don't do a lot of intense stuff with it. I don't do original language studies at all and rarely even look at maps or illustrations. Primarily I use Bibles (KJV and Spanish RVR60) and commentaries (primarily BKC and Holman's) and within the context of my usage, I have no complains about the performance of the program at all.

BTW, although I originally bought Logos to use on my Windows machine, the irony is that I almost NEVER use that machine. Big Smile

Anyway, just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth as a satisfied customer and users of Logos 4 Mac.

Posts 2829
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 13 2012 9:01 PM

Donald E. Stidwell:

I haven't read every entry in this thread, but I'm rather surprised that so many seem to find the Mac version inadequate. Somewhere in this thread someone mentioned that a lot of Mac users aren't posting because they're happily using the program. Here I raise my hand as one of those users. 

Anyway, just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth as a satisfied customer and users of Logos 4 Mac.

Do you have all APPLE memory?  There are some hints [but no proof] that non APPLE memory might sometimes be the problem.

[[And those that are having the problems have not stated what memory chips they have in their MACS - and how maxed out the memory that they have is [[that is how many other big programs running at the same time or is just Logos MAC running?]]]]  [[No data == no fix]]

Posts 16
Donald E. Stidwell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 13 2012 9:07 PM

David, my Mac is a Macbook Air, so the memory is soldered in, therefore it's "Apple memory". But I've used it with Mac Minis that I owned where I did have 3rd party memory installed and I didn't have problems with the Minis either that I can recall.

Posts 1956
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 14 2012 1:21 AM

NB.Mick:
Well, let me chime in here as an avid Windows user. What does this prove? You seem to think it shows that the Windows version is bug free and contains all the featurettes we Windows guys like (after all "it's mature software" and "Logos has 20 years of Windows coding experience" and "they are former Microsoft employees" yadayada). Wrong. Complex software can't be bug free. It proves the priorities of Logos.

I don't disagree with the general theme of your post, but I did not posit that the Windows product was bug free. (FWIW, I have been a Windows Logos user since version 2.x.) All I was doing was stating that the only thing we could analyse somewhat objectively is the release notes and there is often many more bugs and regression issues being addressed in any given Mac version. 

 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 14 2012 6:58 AM

Donovan R. Palmer:

NB.Mick:
Well, let me chime in here as an avid Windows user. What does this prove? You seem to think it shows that the Windows version is bug free and contains all the featurettes we Windows guys like (after all "it's mature software" and "Logos has 20 years of Windows coding experience" and "they are former Microsoft employees" yadayada). Wrong. Complex software can't be bug free. It proves the priorities of Logos.

I don't disagree with the general theme of your post, but I did not posit that the Windows product was bug free. (FWIW, I have been a Windows Logos user since version 2.x.) All I was doing was stating that the only thing we could analyse somewhat objectively is the release notes and there is often many more bugs and regression issues being addressed in any given Mac version.

Logos wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Release_Notes_and_History with links to 52 stable Logos 4 Mac release notes, 84 beta Logos 4 Mac release notes, and 40 Logos 4 Mac pre-releases.  Since 26 Oct 2009, Logos has publicly released 180 Logos 4 Mac applications, with numerous improvements, feature additions, and bug fixes along with some sub par regressions in Logos 4.5b.  Thankful for most regressions subsequently being fixed (only 1 remains).

Logos 4.6a Beta currently has 100 Mac fixes, 4 fixes for PC, 14 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 9 new features for both.

Logos 4.6 Release Notes has 38 Mac fixes, 4 fixes for PC, 7 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 8 new features for both => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.6

Logos 4.5c Release Notes has 50 Mac fixes, 6 fixes for PC, 16 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 3 new features for both and 1 Mac new feature  => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.5c

Logos 4.5b Release Notes has 20 Mac fixes, 9 fixes for PC, 6 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 7 new features for both and 1 Mac new feature => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.5b  Caveat: Logos 4.5b also had 18 feature parity regressions on Mac since the User Interface code building was being revamped.

Logos 4.5a Release Notes has 5 Mac fixes, 2 fixes for PC, 8 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 4 new features for both  => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.5a

Logos 4.5 Release Notes has 51 Mac fixes, 16 fixes for PC, 70 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 40 new features for both and 10 Mac new features  => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.5

In 2012, noticed Logos 4.5 and 4.6 had many bug fixes for both Mac & PC along with adding many new features to both platforms.

When Logos 4.6a is released to the stable channel, the feature parity list shrinks => http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_and_PC_User_Interface_Differences#Feature_Parity  Currently 4.6a Beta 4 has 7 items not yet fixed plus 3 items that won't be fixed and 8 future plans, which will be substantial feature parity between Mac and PC.  Remaining feature parity items will be much smaller than the number of new features added this year.  Logos 4.6 and 4.6a have 17 new features for Mac and PC while Logos 4.5* releases had 54 new features for Mac and PC.

Logos 4.6* has awesome Bible Study capabilities on Mac and PC; easy to switch platforms.  Also can use PC virtual machine on Mac.

Logos 4 has a learning curve for effective use on Mac and/or PC; wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Getting_Started_with_Logos

Thankful for many forum discussions, have learned a lot about Logos Bible Study plus have a lot to learn.

Keep Smiling Smile

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 14 2012 11:22 AM

Donald E. Stidwell:

David, my Mac is a Macbook Air, so the memory is soldered in, therefore it's "Apple memory". But I've used it with Mac Minis that I owned where I did have 3rd party memory installed and I didn't have problems with the Minis either that I can recall.

Thanks for the reply.  Now if the ones having problems will also state it they have APPLE or OTHER memory we can kill or confirm that issue. 

[[We need a poll - are you on a MAC - do you have any problems  - do you have APPLE or OTHER memory]]

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 14 2012 1:02 PM

David Ames:

Donald E. Stidwell:

David, my Mac is a Macbook Air, so the memory is soldered in, therefore it's "Apple memory". But I've used it with Mac Minis that I owned where I did have 3rd party memory installed and I didn't have problems with the Minis either that I can recall.

 

Thanks for the reply.  Now if the ones having problems will also state it they have APPLE or OTHER memory we can kill or confirm that issue. 

[[We need a poll - are you on a MAC - do you have any problems  - do you have APPLE or OTHER memory]]

Logos 4 is a resource intensive application: memory is one of the hardware components.  For those experiencing Logos 4 Mac frustrations, wonder if an Apple Hardware Test has any messages ? (possibly some frustrated users have hardware that needs some tender loving care)

Likewise wonder about logging time for mouse key clicks.  Curious if Logos 4 frustration correlates with power hungry application not responding instantly ? (mouse click timing could indicate desire for instant response all the time, with many clicks being registered while waiting for response from an earlier click, which queues up more items to do and prolongs agony of waiting along with items appearing/disappearing on screen so frustration increases).

For Logos performance improvement, wonder about Logos limiting result generation to those that appear on screen, possibly with enough for a page up or page down scroll.  An Exegetical Guide for the book of Matthew would fill hundreds of screens so doing a screen or two then waiting for scroll to show more would feel more responsive.

Note: recently experienced a hard disk issue that caused OS X to perform sub par: e.g. 45 seconds after one click on the Apple icon for the Apple menu to appear.  Knowing that Logos 4 uses disk a lot, did not launch Logos 4 since was not interested in timing lots of minutes for home page to appear. Personally watching for Solid State Disk (SSD) sale soon so can replace internal hard drive with SSD for Logos use.  Already using USB external drive to boot OS X.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1956
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 14 2012 11:49 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Logos 4.6a Beta currently has 100 Mac fixes, 4 fixes for PC, 14 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 9 new features for both.

Logos 4.6 Release Notes has 38 Mac fixes, 4 fixes for PC, 7 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 8 new features for both => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.6

Logos 4.5c Release Notes has 50 Mac fixes, 6 fixes for PC, 16 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 3 new features for both and 1 Mac new feature  => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.5c

Logos 4.5b Release Notes has 20 Mac fixes, 9 fixes for PC, 6 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 7 new features for both and 1 Mac new feature => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.5b  Caveat: Logos 4.5b also had 18 feature parity regressions on Mac since the User Interface code building was being revamped.

Logos 4.5a Release Notes has 5 Mac fixes, 2 fixes for PC, 8 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 4 new features for both  => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.5a

Logos 4.5 Release Notes has 51 Mac fixes, 16 fixes for PC, 70 fixes for both Mac & PC plus 40 new features for both and 10 Mac new features  => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.5

One word. Wow!

First, I don't know where you get the time to look at this data. Second, the number of Mac fixes was greater than my wildest guess.  As far as PC/Mac specific fixes, I thought maybe 3 to 1, but it's actually over 6 to 1. 

 

Posts 1956
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 14 2012 11:50 PM

David Ames:
[[We need a poll - are you on a MAC - do you have any problems  - do you have APPLE or OTHER memory]]

I use all platforms, but my principle machine is a Macbook Pro with 8GB of Apple installed RAM.

Posts 115
Tony Kissell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 15 2012 4:58 AM

I'm on an iMac with 8 GB of non-Apple RAM, very seldom have any issues, particularly since switching to 64bit mode

I do use "AppTrap" to delete the old files whenever I update Logos, not sure if this would make the slightest difference, but I mention it just in case.

Tony

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 15 2012 4:59 AM

David Ames:
We need a poll - are you on a MAC - do you have any problems  - do you have APPLE or OTHER memory]

I am on a Mac—Desktop and MBP. The desktop is more than 5 years old. The MBP is about 3 years old

I have no serious problems other than the slowness I have mentioned in a few threads. Very few crashes.

I have the 1 GB of Apple RAM that the machine originally contained and 10 GB or non-Apple RAM.

As someone noted previously in this thread, even Apple RAM is not an Apple product. The non-Apple RAM warnings seems more a myth than anything else.

 

Posts 1875
Paul-C | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 15 2012 5:13 AM

I'm on a 2009 MBP with 8GB of non-Apple RAM (I think I bought it from Crucial.)  I seldom have any issues with Logos 4 Mac.  I also have a 256GB SSD fitted as my main hard drive and believe this makes quite a difference to performance.

Posts 1956
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 15 2012 5:37 AM

Jack Caviness:
As someone noted previously in this thread, even Apple RAM is not an Apple product. The non-Apple RAM warnings seems more a myth than anything else.

I agree. I would also assume if you have problems related to RAM, there is a good possibility that you would see issues in other applications as well. Further, if you submit logs and the problem is diagnosed, it would seem then at that point memory could or could not be ruled out of the equation.  Further UI issues in many cases are clearly not a RAM issue.

I responded to at least give some user data to weigh against the theory.  My machine is stock.

Posts 549
Bob Deacon | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 15 2012 7:02 AM

I have similar issues as well. Overall slowness and an occasional crash. Although Logos is "sub-par" in relation to other Mac apps I use this DOES NOT justify spending a wad of money on enhancements such as a SSD drive when ALL of my other programs perform well. From my perspective it is NOT a hardware problem we are dealing with here! I am NOT complaining merely stating reality!

Bob Deacon

Surface Pro 6

MacBook Air (2017) Big Sur

Ipad Air 2 (ios 9.7 (0014)

Samsung A50 (9.7 907000152)

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Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 15 2012 8:25 PM

removed by owner of post.

Posts 103
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2012 8:13 PM

Monroe R Miller:

Here's my problem with what you say: When L4 first came out (for Windows), I wondered why Logos would release a product that clearly did not work. I received a reply from Bob that they did that because they wanted to offer it for sale during the Fall Christmas shopping season. Thus, a marketing strategy lead to the release of an inferior product. Logos does this over and over. That type of action does not increase profitability nor raise capital. It does do great harm to the company's reputation.

The same thing is now happening with L4 Mac.

Absolutely agree and with another 4 crashes this morning, had enough of Logos4Mac today, it's time to use something else.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2012 8:18 PM

S Mack:
Absolutely agree and with another 4 crashes this morning, had enough of Logos4Mac today, it's time to use something else.

Have you tried downloading release candidate 1. It has a lot of fixes. http://downloads.logos.com/LBS4/LBS4MacInstallerBeta/Logos4Mac.dmg See the release notes. http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.6a

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 103
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2012 9:27 PM

Bob Pritchett:

However we must keep the doors open, and no matter how unhappy Mac users are -- and how important 30% of sales is to us -- stabilizing and bug fixing doesn't generate revenue.

Amazing comment which seems to defy the trends since most people I know for example moved to OS X for, among other things, stability! Stability has made Apple a lot of money!! As for keeping the "doors open" how does ignoring bugs achieve this goal with Logos4Mac?

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