Lexham Methods Series (4 Volumes)

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Alex Scott | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Oct 11 2012 4:28 PM

http://www.logos.com/product/26934/lexham-methods-series

Thoughts?

Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.

Posts 128
Simon Pleasants | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 5:02 PM

It looks like an interesting series, but it's too pricey for me (over $62.5 per volume). Also, there's nothing to evaluate it besides the blurb. There's not even any indication of page lengths. I'll be passing on this for now.

"Upon a life I did not live, Upon a death I did not die, Another's life, another's death, I stake my whole eternity"

Horatius Bonar

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 11 2012 8:34 PM

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I am puzzled by Logos’ pricing strategy of resources that are produced in-house. Works that are that expensive are usually by specialist for specialists. The number of topics indicates that it is probably intended to give introductory coverage of the various issues. If these volumes are introductions to various critical tools by mostly unknown and maybe untested authors (as in they do not have much out there that is published for us to evaluate), I cannot understand the pricing (such a high price is generally reserved for ground breaking works that are intended to be standards in the field or break new ground).

I observe the same trend for the Lexham Bible Guide series.

I have a “crazy” idea, maybe Logos is providing unreasonable price for resources that it plans to include in Logos 5 and doing so, artificially increase the value of whatever packages they will be part of. This is the only way I can make sense of these high prices for resources that do not appear to justify them.

I personally do not need another introduction and I will pass

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 17 2013 12:32 PM

Today I just received an email trying to promote this resource. The last comments posted on this thread are from last October so I thought I'd resurrect this thread.

Does anyone know any more about this resource? I agree with Simon that the pricing seems to be on the high side. Is it worth it? What will this resource offer that others do not?

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 17 2013 3:16 PM

We talked about it here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/67366.aspx 

The last [to date] poster has heard of "golden goblet that comes with each one of these volumes"

They do say "helps you learn the basics of textual criticism," Sounds entry level to me.  

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 17 2013 3:34 PM

David Ames:

We talked about it here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/67366.aspx 

The last [to date] poster has heard of "golden goblet that comes with each one of these volumes"

They do say "helps you learn the basics of textual criticism," Sounds entry level to me.  

Thanks for the link to that thread. I even did a search on it but didn't see that because it had a different name. It does sound pretty basic to me as well. That's why I asked.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 17 2013 8:47 PM

Alain Maashe:
I am puzzled by Logos’ pricing strategy of resources that are produced in-house.

The simple explanation is that we price them to cover costs.

Most books are written on the author's time, and at the author's expense. (Witness all the 'thanks to my patient family that I ignored for a year' comments at the front.) The small royalty stream rarely works out -- even over several years -- to minimum wage for the time invested. Books are a labor of love (or fame, or brand, or reputation, etc.) for authors.

Most of the Logos-created content we have been offering is being written 'on the clock' by scholars we employ in-house. And while electronic books are growing in sales, they are still much less than half the book market, so we are selling to a smaller audience than we would have in print.

There are some good things about 'paying people to write' -- our scholars can focus, they can collaborate with other scholars, work directly with artists to create accompanying graphics, etc. But overall it's an expensive way to make books.

In general, we try to pay as we go. Some of the books our team writes have gone (or will go) to print, and find a little more market (but very little more income). And since most of these books will be useful for a long time, it's possible we'll sell enough copies over 10+ years to justify lower prices.

But we have to pay bills today, and so we try to price things (using all our data on the history of number of units sold, at what prices) at the price most likely to garner enough pre-orders in a reasonable time to let the book cover its costs quickly.

The great thing about pre-pub is that you, the users, get to tell us if it's a good idea or not: if we don't get the orders, we won't write the book. And ultimately, we'll have to deliver enough value in our in-house products to earn your continuing orders.

(Should we try Community Pricing for an original work?)

With that said, we'll continue to refine the process; if we can offer things at more accessible prices, we want to.

-- Bob

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 17 2013 9:22 PM

Bob Pritchett:

(Should we try Community Pricing for an original work?)

I think the answer is "yes"...mainly because I think it will keep Logos customers from turning into disrespectful grumps and it will keep Logos employees actively engaged in things that "work" where the market is concerned. I know a lot of work has gone into the Lexham Bible Guides...people's time, people's energy, people's lives...and it hurts me to think about the dismissive and snide comments that are directed at the semi-faceless Logos company that are essentially pounds of flesh being carved out of those who have invested themselves in the project. I'm not talking about the wisdom or marketing plan or whatever of the project...I'm thinking about the lives invested. With this new project, I'm worried the same reaction will elicit similar behaviors and bile-spewing from people who have absolutely ZERO commitment or obligation to the project--they just like to get their jabs in.

If these projects had gone through the CP process, they would either have been financed against consumer interest and demand, or the projects would not have been born only to bear the brunt of so much antipathy. These projects aren't bad ideas, but I've realized that what you said was the prime contributing factor to the prices for some time. Most of the books we buy through Logos are heavily subsidized through universities, colleges, seminaries, churches, and publishing houses. Anyway, I suggest giving it a try.

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Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 17 2013 10:05 PM

David Paul:

Bob Pritchett:

(Should we try Community Pricing for an original work?)

I think the answer is "yes"...mainly because I think it will keep Logos customers from turning into disrespectful grumps and it will keep Logos employees actively engaged in things that "work" where the market is concerned. I know a lot of work has gone into the Lexham Bible Guides...people's time, people's energy, people's lives...and it hurts me to think about the dismissive and snide comments that are directed at the semi-faceless Logos company that are essentially pounds of flesh being carved out of those who have invested themselves in the project. I'm not talking about the wisdom or marketing plan or whatever of the project...I'm thinking about the lives invested. With this new project, I'm worried the same reaction will elicit similar behaviors and bile-spewing from people who have absolutely ZERO commitment or obligation to the project--they just like to get their jabs in.

Disrespectful grumps… dismissive and snide comments…bile-spewing…they just like to get their jabs in.

My, my, my…Aren’t we contributing a little oil to the fire… you just started.

I wonder if the language you used does not accomplish exactly what you loathe in others (does it help your point or does it obscure it?)

The discussion that I have followed and participated in was focused on the critique (and yes, at times criticism) of the pricing strategy in relation to the perceived value of the product. The authors were gracious enough to give their perspective on what considerations went into the conception of the series. They were not personally attacked or looked down upon (at least in the posts I read).

 In a business environment, one should be able to differentiate between criticism of a product and criticism of those who produced it (If one cannot separate the two, maybe ventures that are publicly evaluated by paying customers is not for him or her). The authors have not complained, were they disappointed by the reception of their hard work? Most likely , but it is a business ruled by the principle of offer and demand. Disappointment at the reception can be constructive and lead to a better product (just look at what happened between Logos 4 and  5).

It is clear that Logos misjudged the target audience and how much people were willing to pay for it. 

I believe Logos needs this kind of frank feedback about the appropriateness of the resources they produce so as to better tailor their offerings in the future (as Bob acknowledged)

Bob has done a good job explaining the supply side of the equation; maybe it would have been better just to leave it at that.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 17 2013 10:15 PM

Alain Maashe:

...maybe it would have been better just to leave it at that.

No, upon reflection...I said what I think needed to be said.

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

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Posts 2968
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2013 7:05 AM

Bob Pritchett:

The simple explanation is that we price them to cover costs.

(Should we try Community Pricing for an original work?)

Yes, try CP for your in house original works! 

BUT the BIG question is still NOT answered: Is this a LONG basic introduction or is this the last word in very deep scholarly study on Textual Criticism?

[does this list every MSS on every verse in the Bible and also tell why the NA/UBS and the BZY/MT and the TR selected the reading they did by MSS?]

[Also does it cover the OT LXX Greek / MT Hebrew?]

I have 28 resources in my Textual Criticism Collection [I just spent about $100 on your latest two]

If I had all of those memorized [I don't but if i did] what will this set tell me that I don't already have?  Why spend anything on this set let alone $250?  

[[If it helps you may check my account to see what I have]]

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