L5 Upgrade: Resource Calculator Bug?
I'm looking at the upgrader for L4 -> L5, and think that the Logos website still isn't recognizing all the resources that I've purchased through it.
In a quick survey of my customized comparison, I've found examples where I have parts of a collection but not the collection (probably via Christmas Sales specials/etc), so the Upgrader counts that as not having the collection. A specific example is I have 7 of 25 resources in the Crossway Classic Commentaries. I wish I could get credit for these partials--they add up!
On the more troubling side, I've found an example where the Upgrader says I don't have a resource that I do that--in this case, Themelios. The web Product page doesn't show I own it, but my Library does--and so does the Orders page, which shows Themelios product orders in Apr, May, and Aug (note to self: stop buying this resource!).
Has anyone else found examples of products not being credited by the Upgrader? If so, please post specifics and hopefully Logos can wring these bugs out of its resource/sales tracking logic.
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I see the same thing- even at that- 1540.00 for portfolio upgrade- that is basically prepubs I did not purchase, because I had no interest in, is not a deal.
Hopefully they offer the platform upgrade/ crossover or whatever you want to call it, for a minimal fee, if not will stay with L4. Hopefully future resources will still be compatible with L4, if not I will be a lost customer.
I just cannot justify putting that much money into Logos any longer.
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Ward Walker said:
Has anyone else found examples of products not being credited by the Upgrader? If so, please post specifics and hopefully Logos can wring these bugs out of its resource/sales tracking logic.
Unfortunately the site is so slow that I can't work through my "New to you" list very easily. So far, I can tell for sure that it mistakenly includes the 40 volume New American Commentary series in my "New to you" list. Given that it's a $600 series and my Diamond upgrade price is $1,200, I'm highly motivated to find more examples of errors and to verify how they've arrived at pricing.
Donnie
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Ward Walker said:
Has anyone else found examples of products not being credited by the Upgrader? If so, please post specifics and hopefully Logos can wring these bugs out of its resource/sales tracking logic
Yes me too. I bought the A. T. Robertson collection in 2009 and it shows in my resource list under the "new to you" tab. Some of my Calvin 500 content and a few others are showing likewise.
Duplication notwithstanding, I find many titles I know I don't have and do want to have that makes my upgrade a good deal.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
Duplication notwithstanding, I find many titles I know I don't have and do want to have that makes my upgrade a good deal.
Do you plan to do anything to verify that what Logos believes to be the basis of your upgrade price accurately reflects resource that are truly "new to you"? I think I'm going to have to call, but I think I'll be able to make a better case if I have an exhaustive list of the mistakenly-categorized resources.
Donnie
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I am see similar issues. My guess is we have different "versions" of those resources, so it shows up as new to you. (For instance, I own all the NAC volumes, but that was via initial volumes included when I bought platinum, plus buying individual volumes as they have been released . . . so I do not technically have the NAC package they list, even though I own all the volumes.) That does not necessarily mean the Logos has not taken these owned resources into account, but it would be nice to know for sure if they have.
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Don't worry—you're getting credit for every book you own.
The Dynamic Pricing calculator, aka "custom discount upgrader" gives you credit for every individual title that you own—even if it's part of a larger collection. We actually broke down every ttile we have in the entire Logos universe, whether it made up part of a collection or not, and treated it as its own unique resource ID. So, for example, you get credit for all 7 of the 25 resources in the Crossway Classic Commentaries collection that are already in your library.
The challenge, as you can see, is how to display pieces of an entire collection on the chart when you only have the tiny icon to work with. It would be difficult to do the math behind the scenes and then display a fractional image of the little guy that is designed to represent "New to you" and it wouldn't be that visually clear.
Thanks again for voicing your concerns. We will continue to improve the design to provide you with the best possible upgrade experience.
Also, some collections in the new Logos 5 base packages have been updated with additional volumes, which is why they are in the "New to You" section of the comparison chart. However, if you own any part of those collections, you will still get credit for them.
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Dan Pritchett said:
Don't worry—you're getting credit for every book you own.
Thanks for the explanation, Dan. It does make me feel a bit better about the pricing for an "upgrade".
The real question, though, is on what basis Logos decides not to offer "minimal crossgrades" out of the gate? I'm more than willing to pay for the databases and accompanying new features. But I don't need any new resources. And I'd think 90+ orders would prove my loyalty to the product and willingness to buy resources when I need them.
I'm trying to think of any analogous business practice by other companies and can't come up with any. I'd love to hear a rational explanation.
Donnie
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Steve Coward said:
That does not necessarily mean the Logos has not taken these owned resources into account, but it would be nice to know for sure if they have.
I think Dan just answered that concern. I worry no more. Dan is honest & trustworthy. I would trust the lives of my 13 children to Dan Pritchett.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Donnie Hale said:
I'm trying to think of any analogous business practice by other companies and can't come up with any. I'd love to hear a rational explanation.
Here are my rational explanations guesses.
- A minimal crossgrade would likely cut into sales.
- They're hoping for a massive buy-in that could tax their servers, so they're going with this first.
- They're still working the bugs out of the minimal crossgrade update function, pricing, features, etc.
- Some combination of the above.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Dan Pritchett said:
The challenge, as you can see, is how to display pieces of an entire collection on the chart when you only have the tiny icon to work with. It would be difficult to do the math behind the scenes and then display a fractional image of the little guy that is designed to represent "New to you" and it wouldn't be that visually clear.
Wonder if "New to you" could show a count of new resources ? ideally on the upgrade page.
Personally noticed a collection of 15 resources, which would have 3 new to my library. Having a count beside "New to you" would be helpful; potential export to Excel so could add up number of new resources and compare with upgrade pricing.
Another improvement idea after adding a Logos 5 upgrade to a cart is showing bundles, which are not currently in my Library (unlocked=no). Of 9 bundle additions, already had all the resources in 4 of them.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Dan Pritchett said:
Don't worry—you're getting credit for every book you own.
...
Thanks again for voicing your concerns. We will continue to improve the design to provide you with the best possible upgrade experience.
Dan, thank you for the quick feedback; it saves me a lot of spreadsheet building.
Perhaps just a different color for the dot (orange?) would be helpful to communicate that the upgrader took partial ownership of a collection into account.
I do wonder about Themelios though...as far as I can tell, I've "bought it all", unless I don't have the "option on future issues"
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Great idea! Throw in a bit of Dan's explanation on the hover or on the top of the page and a lot of folks would understand what was happening.Ward Walker said:Perhaps just a different color for the dot (orange?) would be helpful to communicate that the upgrader took partial ownership of a collection into account.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
What would be interesting is a "Lost To You" button to list those resources that would be lost by upgrading! 8-)
For example, Pillar commentary is not in any of the packages in Logos 5.
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JohnLBUK said:
What would be interesting is a "Lost To You" button to list those resources that would be lost by upgrading! 8-)
For example, Pillar commentary is not in any of the packages in Logos 5.
But you won't lose any resource you own, regardless whether it's in the new package or not! You are not switching old for new, but just get additional functionality and books (which is waht you pay for).
Have joy in the Lord!
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Ward Walker said:
it saves me a lot of spreadsheet building.
When the resources that interested me reached 3 times the cost of the upgrade, I quit counting [8-|] And this did not include the additional volumes of the College Press Commentary set.
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Ward Walker said:
On the more troubling side, I've found an example where the Upgrader says I don't have a resource that I do that--in this case, Themelios. The web Product page doesn't show I own it, but my Library does--and so does the Orders page, which shows Themelios product orders in Apr, May, and Aug (note to self: stop buying this resource!).
Has anyone else found examples of products not being credited by the Upgrader? If so, please post specifics and hopefully Logos can wring these bugs out of its resource/sales tracking logic.
I currently have L4 Platinum edition but have added many other resources to my library and have spent nearly $25K on resources (including those bought from other vendors). When I click on the "new to you" button there are quite a few resources that I currently have in my library that the calculator says I do not have. It is amazing to me that my upgrade for the new Platinum is still $352. I have never considered purchasing Portfolio because most of the resources that would interest me I have already purchased, yet it's still nearly $2K to upgrade to portfolio and $1K for the new diamond package. Here are some of the resources that I do have which the calculator tells me I am missing. . .
The Lexham Clausal Outlines of the Greek New Testament: SBL Edition
Lexham Hebrew Bible with Morphology
Swete Septuagint with MorphologyLexham Hebrew Septuagint Reverse interlinear: H.B. Swete Edition
The Apostolic Fathers in English
New American Commentary Series (40)
Black's New Testament Commentary (BNTC) (13 vols.) [ I have 5 of these]
Believers Church Bible Commentary (24 vols.) [I have 19 of these]
Ryrie's Concise Guide to the Bible
New Testament SurveyNew Topical Textbook
Themelios 1–37 (1975–2012) (111 issues) The Diamond Marriage: Have Ultimate Purpose in Your Marriage
DivorceThe Practical Works of the Rev. Richard Baxter (23 vols.) [I have only 5 of these]
Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint: H.B. Swete Edition
Revised Common Lectionary (may not be the same one)
The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament, SBL Edition: Sentence Analysis
Lexham Analytical Lexicon of the Septuagint: H.B. Swete Edition
Broadman and Holman Preaching Resources (18 vols) [I have 15 of these]
Server is down for maintenance again so didn't get to finish checking for more discrepancies. Hopefully the calculator will be more accurate when they are back online.
I will say that I like what I see in the new release; it's the $352 that's hard. I will probably wait for the cross grade to be available.
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Daniel Bender said:
I currently have L4 Platinum edition
That you have and alway will have. You will always be able to say you have L4 Platinum.
I note your list of resources, and in the light of Dan's post above will be personally interested to hear of Customer Service's response when you challenge them.
If you are not interested in the discount offered for the New Platinum why not stick with the the L4 version and add the new Silver or Gold versions you may find that option significantly cheaper.
Actually you might like to let us know how much cheaper so that we can advice others.tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Mike Binks, how did you create the view my library? That is very neat.
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I own 2 resources the Discount Calcalator says I don't:
Brenton's Septuagint: Greek Text
A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew, rev. ed.
I had earlier thought the total was 3, but saw that the Jewish Bible was the Complete Jewish Bible, not the Jewish NT! The covers look identical.
I did double and then triple check the other 2 and indeed the calculator made a mistake.
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Thank you Keith, that is the kind of precise data we need. I will email Phil Gons a link to this page to make sure he sees it.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Keith Larson said:
I own 2 resources the Discount Calcalator says I don't:
Brenton's Septuagint: Greek Text
A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew, rev. ed.
I had earlier thought the total was 3, but saw that the Jewish Bible was the Complete Jewish Bible, not the Jewish NT! The covers look identical.
I did double and then triple check the other 2 and indeed the calculator made a mistake.
Please let us know what customer services has to say about this.
The assurances given that the calculator would only be showing resources as not being owned when either they were not owned or a change to edition (or in the case of a series an added volume) have been quite specific.tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Keith Larson said:
Brenton's Septuagint: Greek Text
Hi Keith.
This refers to the actual Greek text of Brenton's LXX, not his English translation (several printed editions of Brenton were diglots). We (Logos) have not previously released the Greek text (the English was released with Logos 4, I believe), it is new to the Logos 5 packages.
It is easy to confuse, though. I did a double-take on the same item.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
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Found one more! New Topical Textbook. Had this book forever, it has been in so many past collections that I probably own 3 or 4 licenses for it![:D]
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Rick Brannan (Logos) said:Keith Larson said:
Brenton's Septuagint: Greek Text
Hi Keith.
This refers to the actual Greek text of Brenton's LXX, not his English translation (several printed editions of Brenton were diglots). We (Logos) have not previously released the Greek text (the English was released with Logos 4, I believe), it is new to the Logos 5 packages.
It is easy to confuse, though. I did a double-take on the same item.
Thanks Rick! Indeed you are correct. What about the "New Topical Textbook" and "A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew"?
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Hi Daniel.
I can't comment on everything here, only on the items I know about (Greek & Hebrew resources and lexicons).
Daniel Bender said:The Lexham Clausal Outlines of the Greek New Testament: SBL Edition
The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament, SBL Edition: Sentence Analysis
These are versions of existing resources based on the NA/UBS text that were then applied to the SBLGNT. They are not new; they were integrated into collections awhile back, but I think they are in the most recent (JG?) forms of some levels of Scholars. I have to be honest and say I don't know which ones — I work with the data, and don't have much conception of which things get included where. If you're on a version of Scholars Platinum previous to JG, then these might've been included with JG.
Daniel Bender said:Lexham Hebrew Bible with Morphology
Swete Septuagint with Morphology
Lexham Hebrew Septuagint Reverse interlinear: H.B. Swete Edition
Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint: H.B. Swete Edition
Lexham Analytical Lexicon of the Septuagint: H.B. Swete Edition
The Apostolic Fathers in English
The Lexham Hebrew Bible with Morphology is brand new and was introduced with Logos 5. The Swete LXX with morphology is an update to Swete's edition of the LXX; you may have it already without the morphology, and that may or may not be the confusion — so that's good to note. The Lexham Hebrew Septuagint Reverse Interlinear H.B. Swete Edition is an alignment between Swete's LXX and the Lexham Hebrew Bible, it as well is new to Logos 5, as are the other "H.B. Swete Edition" titles on your list.
The Apostolic Fathers in English is a new English translation of the writings of the Apostolic Fathers. I should know because I'm the translator/editor. It as well is new to Logos 5.
Hope this helps. My intent here isn't to dispute; if you think there is a misrepresentation of your library, you *should* call customer service and try to work it out. I only wanted to comment on some items that I know are new to Logos 5.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
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Hi Keith.
Keith Larson said:Thanks Rick! Indeed you are correct. What about the "New Topical Textbook" and "A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew"?
I really don't know — I'm not in sales and am not familiar with configurations and what is included where. I work on our Greek and Hebrew texts and annotations, and representing them properly in Logos; that's my area and why I can speak about those particular items and their introduction in Logos 5.
Like I mentioned in another response, if you think there are issues with the representation of your library, then you should get in touch with customer service and talk with someone about it. That's the best way to try and figure it out. But when you do, realize that they're swamped right now, and they too are learning the ins and outs of how these upgrades work, and areas where there could be questions such as the ones you raise.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
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Keith Larson said:
What about the "New Topical Textbook" and "A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew"?
Both of these are revised editions in the Logos 5 packages:
The New Topical Text Book, New, revised & enlarged edition (2012). (LLS:TORREYS2012, not on logos.com AFAIK)
A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew: Revised English Edition (2006). http://www.logos.com/product/4607/a-grammar-of-biblical-hebrew-rev-ed
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Rick Brannan (Logos) said:
Hope this helps. My intent here isn't to dispute; if you think there is a misrepresentation of your library, you *should* call customer service and try to work it out. I only wanted to comment on some items that I know are new to Logos 5.
Thanks Rick for your reply. I was just checking L5 contents against my library titles and wasn't trying to mislead or misrepresent myself (the site did go down while I was doing this and could not reload the page). I appreciate your taking the time to respond and to clarify the facts for me.
Edit: By the way, I have Scholar's Platinum (KF).
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Hi Daniel.
Daniel Bender said:Thanks Rick for your reply. I was just checking L5 contents against my library titles and wasn't trying to mislead or misrepresent myself (the site did go down while I was doing this and could not reload the page). I appreciate your taking the time to respond and to clarify the facts for me.
Edit: By the way, I have Scholar's Platinum (KF).
You're welcome. I think the SBLGNT forms of those two resources were introduced in the move from KF to JG. You might want to check with sales, as I think for a time there was a KF->JG update that provided these resources.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
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Will the LEB Hebrew reverse interlinear be coming to Logos 4 or only to Logos 5? That and NA28 are the only things I want from the new packages, and I'm waiting for the minimal crossgrade.
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