TCBlack That is totally dis-honest by the complete version because the version contains books you don't have? Fact is that is not an upgrade but a stand alone product no way around that. I guess now I can see why the morality of our country is off. The tech Industry has already established what an upgrade should be and is look at all the software companies and what they offer when they release a new version.
Again that isn't an upgrade that is stand alone if you have to buy a fully packaged version with new datasets seems those bent on defending Logos at this point are sounding more like the US Government its hogwash period.
Richard Koons:That is totally dis-honest by the complete version because the version contains books you don't have?
Let's try this again, because I think you're getting hung up on the release stages.
Stage one: the upgrade packages with new material are released. <<<we are here
Stage two: the minimal crossgrade(s) with various dataset levels, and probably only the resources the datasets rely upon are released <<Phil indicated that this is perhaps two weeks away, though this is not a hard date yet.
Stage three: the free download of the engine is made available.
Am I reading you right?
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OK, since Logos does not have time to respond to my emails (and I know that with all the upheaval they are probably busy, not being sarcastic), I will again try to come to you, my fellow users... Well, not users in the since of modern vernacular, but users of Logos, shhhoooo!
When will we, who have already spent all the money that we are going to spend on packages such as "Scholars Library", going to be able to upgrade to 5? Have they set a date for the upgrade for us poor folk?
Ron L Owen:When will we, who have already spent all the money that we are going to spend on packages such as "Scholars Library", going to be able to upgrade to 5? Have they set a date for the upgrade for us poor folk?
That's why I'm here!
have a good and Godly day Ron.
“... every day in which I do not
penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture
is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the
firm ground of the Word of God.”
That seems reasonable. I'd like to have the new core software and features, but I don't need more resources. $50-100 seems about right.
Dewayne, I am reposting your post with some formatting to make it easier to read. Please don't take offense.
I normally don't take time to post. I think they call it a stalker? I have used Logos/Series X/Libronix/Logos 4 for quite a long time. I always manage to upgrade to the next level when new releases come out. But this release is unlike any other. Logos has left their past marketing strategies for something new, that I really don't understand at this point. As a customer that is knowledgeable enough to know how things work and what to expect, I still can truly understand the feelings of some here.
1. I was a Mac early adopter with the first Mac version. It took a long time and there were problems. It never developed and was abandoned for Logos 4. Many had to upgrade to get what was promised. After controversy and confusion we moved to version 4 and I for one upgraded to the next level (Platinum). But years have passed and Logos 4 never got where it was promised, and really never totally stabilized. Although I didn't ever have the problems of some, I did experience strange crashes along the way that were symptoms of immature software.
But what gets me is that we kept being told that they were doing their best. When questioned about other projects taking away from the labor pool, we were told that those employees were not qualified for the Mac work and were not affecting things. Yet here we are, Logos 4 not finished and Logos 5 released. Now, I don't think I could buy that the Logos 5 programmers weren't qualified for the Logos 4 project. Does this upset me? No not really. I am just glad to see a polished project come to light. But all things considered, I was surprised the Logos 4 beta testers were not given priority over new sales? Seemed strange to me. But I wasn't invited to those meetings and not privy to all that goes on in running the company. :)
2. When I first heard that version 5 was released, I was quite surprised. I immediately went to look at my upgrade and was shocked at the price just to stay where I am. Not because it was unfair or deceiving, but because it was different than I had come to expect. I did however upgrade/downgrade to Silver, and picked up a few things that I didn't have. Really it wasn't a bad price for what I picked up.
Do I feel like I have moved down a few social classes? Sure. (pride) But I have learned that there is no way to keep up with Logos publishing anymore. Far too many books to offer. Am I happy with where I am? Absolutely.
3. When I first started to make heads and tales of the new data sets/tools, it was confusing. I wasn't familiar with what they were, and had to really consider in order to decide what I could live with. This was never an issue in the past. A few hundred dollars would get you to the next level with all data sets included.
But not anymore. What I found was that when I selected the Basic Upgrade, it took me to a page with details. One of the items said "new to Logos 5". Clicking on it showed all of the data sets and what they did. However, I at least knew from forums/past experience that they wouldn't be included. I could see how someone could easily have made the purchase and expected it all to work. The site has changed now, so I don't think it an issued any longer. Perhaps this is what happened to some of those upset here in the forum?
4. Logos 5 feels like we fast forwarded through the Logos 4 process. Feels like we were secretly kept out of the process until they worked out the bugs. It feels like Logos 4 was just another beta product that was finally finished with version 5. Don't misread my tone. I am happy with things as they are, with my upgrades, the new stability and speed, new tools, etc... But I do understand where some of the unhappy poster are coming from.
So guys, I feel your pain and don't blame you. And I pray that you find solutions that you can live with.
Afterthought... I am betting that the reason for the newly configured packages is because the typical past 300-500 dollar upgrades just wouldn't cover the costs involved in the new data sets and features. They really do look like a massive undertaking. New features in version 4 took years to build those data sets.
The above was originally posted by Dewayne Davis. I just reformatted.
Purchasing ebooks is supposed to be the next step in Literary communication. Electronic books, are like paper books, except faster and more compact to read (assuming you have a handheld device).
What about those poor folks on the east coast without electricity. If the storm didn't get their house, they still have their paper books.
If I purchase a book on Logos, shouldn't I have access to it as long as I live, not as long as I upgrade?
The thing I like about paper books (what's the lingo for paper books?) is no upgrade is necessary. But, there is this, if the book is updated, you have to buy a whole other book to get the update.
It is so confusing. I like Logos and will keep using it and will upgrade even if it cost me a little, but I have bought my last big package, but I will continue to buy individual ebooks... Hope the lights stay on!!!
Earlier I was angry about the upgrade for buyers of new stuff and not us old, faithful users of Logos, but it was the day after the election when I learned of Logos 5 and upgrades and the mess, so that was probably the agitation behind my anger.
Ok, see ya, I am going to go read my bonded leather bible... Maybe I will upgrade to genuine!
Scott Stackelhouse:Dewayne, I am reposting your post
Ron L Owen:If I purchase a book on Logos, shouldn't I have access to it as long as I live
What makes you think you do not keep your previous purchases? Logos has made a commitment to its customers—You never need to purchase a resource twice, and once purchased, it will remain yours. You do not need to upgrade. No one is forcing you to do so. Logos has made an offer. It is up to you whether you accept it or not.
You and Dewayne have both missed one important point: Development of L4 is ongoing. I no longer follow any L4 forums, but I believe 4.5a was recently released.
However, L5 Mac is a tremendous improvement over L4 Mac
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Ron L Owen:Ok, see ya, I am going to go read my bonded leather bible... Maybe I will upgrade to genuine
Ok Ron you get kudos for making me laugh for the first time today!
Dewayne Davis:Yet here we are, Logos 4 not finished and Logos 5 released. Now, I don't think I could buy that the Logos 5 programmers weren't qualified for the Logos 4 project.
We didn't have separate Logos 4 and Logos 5 teams -- it's the same team. It's true that Windows programmers aren't a big help when moved on short-notice to the Mac, but we didn't split the team between 4 and 5 -- just Mac and Windows. (And we're doing less of that -- a lot of devs are now dual-platform.)
Logos 4 essentially was finished, with the release of 4.6a the week before Logos 5 was released. (We knocked down the missing features, or gave definitive answers for why we weren't planning to do something.)
The big stability improvement in Logos 5 for Mac comes from a new version of the Mono platform; it was in beta as Logos 5 was in beta, which is why we haven't yet shipped it for Logos 4, but we plan to soon. (It just released as we released Logos 5.)
As far as I know, Logos 5 only has "new stuff" or "new look" -- there is nothing that's a "fix" to the core platform that isn't in 4.6a. We were checking in code to both platforms along the entire Logos 5 development process.
Thanks for "plugging in" once again with the Logos community. We truly appreciate you offering us insight into the challenges of the upgrade/development process. We are there with you and the whole team. http://community.logos.com/forums/t/59253.aspx
Please let us know what is the most useful feedback that you need....pricing, content, time to market on changes, support, sales, etc.
We want you and the staff to succeed.
Perry McKinnon:I don't think most of us expect Logos to give us a free upgrade.
But they will! So what are you upset about?
Perry McKinnon:I for one don't mind paying $50-100 to have the new features of version 5. But that is not what Logos has done. They are asking us to pay $300-600 or more.
No, they're not. That price is if you want new books as well. If you don't want those, you can get the free engine update or one of the Crossgrades.
Perry McKinnon:Logos is doing something now that they have never done.
No, they're giving the same 3 alternatives they did with L4: free engine, Crossgrade, or updated package.
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