TIP: Avanced "Root" Search Example

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 2 2012 8:54 AM

Today I was reading Numbers 15:4 in Hebrew, and I noticed that the verse opens with three consecutive words, all of which share the same root in Hebrew: קרב. The verse opens like this:       וְהִקְרִ֛יב הַמַּקְרִ֥יב קָרְבָּנ֖וֹ. The RSVCE translates it "then he who brings his offering shall offer". In Hebrew, however, the three repeated roots sound more like what in English would sound "The offerer shall offer his offering".

The root is repeated three times in a row, the first two times from the verb lemma, and the third time from a completely different lemma, a noun ("offering").

So, I found this curious and thought I would investigate whether or not there are other verses in the Hebrew Bible which have this root in three consecutive words. This is the search I found that seemed to work best:

So, 11 verses have this root at least three times. Numbers 15:4 is included in the results. Scrolling through the results, there seems to only be one other verse where the root appears three consecutive times, Lev 3:7:

This was confirmed by this subsequent search like this:

If I rerun the search changing "BEFORE 2 WORDS" to "BEFORE 1 WORDS", then only Num 15:4 results, as the search engine considers the את connector to be a word.

Interestingly, the three words used in both Num 15:4 and Lev 3:7 are the same - same verb form, same participle form, same noun form, although the translation of the phrase is quite different.

I thought it might be interesting to do a search in general for any root that appears three consecutive times, but I'm not sure how, or if it is possible. If anyone has any idea please share.

Either way, hope this gets you thinking of how to use this new "root" functionality to study God's Word. It opens up some very interesting new possibilities.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:00 AM

Fr Devin, that certainly gets me thinking! Thank you!


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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:21 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
I thought it might be interesting to do a search in general for any root that appears three consecutive times, but I'm not sure how, or if it is possible. If anyone has any idea please share.

You need syntax searching to do this sort of search, and unfortunately, you can't search for roots in a syntax search at the moment.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:32 AM

Mark Barnes:
You need syntax searching to do this sort of search, and unfortunately, you can't search for roots in a syntax search at the moment.

There are no roots in Andersen-Forbes; however, there are roots in the NA27 and SBLGNT versions of the Cascadia Syntactic Greek New Testament (at least, there should be).

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:50 AM

Rick Brannan (Logos):
There are no roots in Andersen-Forbes; however, there are roots in the NA27 and SBLGNT versions of the Cascadia Syntactic Greek New Testament (at least, there should be).

Thanks Rick! I didn't check Cascadia. In that case....

That's the syntax for two repeated roots. You can obviously add a third if you want. If you do three, there are four results in the NT: 1 Cor 2:13, and Rev 4:8, 8:13 and 13:18.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 10:17 AM

That's quite a post for #5000, Mark. Thanks!

Also -- did you want to try sharing a syntax search? I have a slightly different one that searches CascadiaSBLGNT for root agreement between clause function head terms. I 'published' it via documents.logos.com to the "Rick Brannan" (author page) group on Faithlife. If you join the group, I think you could grab the syntax search.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 11:25 AM

Rick Brannan (Logos):
Also -- did you want to try sharing a syntax search? I have a slightly different one that searches CascadiaSBLGNT for root agreement between clause function head terms. I 'published' it via documents.logos.com to the "Rick Brannan" (author page) group on Faithlife. If you join the group, I think you could grab the syntax search.

So, if anyone does this, I think you need to:

  1. Join the group on Faithlife.com
  2. Go to the 'Documents' tab of the group, here: https://faithlife.com/rick-brannan/documents
  3. Click "Connect"

I've never done this before, but I think that'll do it. If someone tries it, and it works (or doesn't work), please let me know.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 11:37 AM

@Rick - Thanks. I joined the group, and can see the document. But when I click "Connect" nothing happens. I have tried it in IE, Firefox and Chrome. I am currently behind a proxy, but doubt that would affect this.

@Mark or @Rick - I tried to recreate the syntax search Mark put together but have not been able to get it to work. Here is what it currently looks like. I have only added the Phrase, 2 Terminal Nodes, set the Morph code of the first to not be an article, and set the agreement on the second to be identical to the root of the first. What more do I need to do? Here is how my search currently looks. It returns 0 results.

EDIT: I figure out what I was missing. I had to select "Matching skips levels" (still not sure why that isn't always selected by default) on each Terminal Node and also "Highlight this term in search results". I then get the same results as Mark. Here is what it looks like with the three level search which returns the 4 verses that Mark posted above:

Here's hoping that Logos will some day decide to publish a serious video training series, or series of articles at least, on using Syntax Search. Geeked

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David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 11:43 AM

documents.logos.com is currently in beta and appears to be experiencing issues when connecting to documents.

I hope to be able to resolve the issue shortly.

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David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 12:23 PM

I've investigated the issue, and it appears to be a result of a missing feature in Faithlife. However, you can get a copy of Rick's document by accessing http://documents.logos.com directly.

After navigating to the site, click on your name, then find Rick's group in the menu that pops up:

After you do this, you'll see a list of Rick's documents. Hover over the syntax search to reveal a "Get Copy" button.

Clicking this button will add it to your documents, and you'll see it in your menu in the desktop product after you sync.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 7:36 AM

Thanks David, that worked perfectly.

I have created a Syntax Search to find 3 words of the same root in the same phrase in the NT. The difference with the search above is that this search allows for words in between the three roots. Here is the search. If anyone knows a better way of doing this feel free to share:

It gives 74 hits. Some of the more interesting ones:

From Revelation:

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 9:17 AM

It worked for me just by joining the Faithlife group, click the document tab, then click Connect. It shows up in my Documents now!

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 9:21 AM

Rick just to test the Publish/share of documents I uploaded the two Granville Sharp Syntax searches I did awhile ago! You should see them in your documents list now in the Faithlife Group.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 11:22 AM

Thanks for posting those, Don. I am unable to Connect to them on the Faithlife group page, but have done so from the documents.logos.com page.

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James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 9 2015 12:12 PM

Mark Barnes:
If you do three, there are four results in the NT: 1 Cor 2:13, and Rev 4:8, 8:13 and 13:18.

stumbled upon this old post, and realized I had preached on repeated words, specifically repeating 3 times. My favorite discovery was πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον (face to face). As in...

Gen 32:31 (Gen 32:30 English)  καὶ ἐκάλεσεν Ιακωβ τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ τόπου ἐκείνου Εἶδος θεοῦ· εἶδον γὰρ θεὸν πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον, καὶ ἐσώθη μου ἡ ψυχή.†

Rahlfs, A., & Hanhart, R. (Eds.). (2006). Septuaginta: SESB Edition (Ge 32:31). Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft.

 

Jdg 6:22 καὶ εἶδεν Γεδεων ὅτι ἄγγελος κυρίου ἐστίν, καὶ εἶπεν Γεδεων Ἆ ἆ, κύριε κύριε, ὅτι εἶδον τὸν ἄγγελον κυρίου πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον

Rahlfs, A., & Hanhart, R. (Eds.). (2006). Septuaginta: SESB Edition (Jdg 6:22). Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft.

Especially here...

1 Co 13:12 βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι διʼ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον· ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

Aland, K., Aland, B., Karavidopoulos, J., Martini, C. M., & Metzger, B. M. (2012). Novum Testamentum Graece (28th Edition., 1 Co 13:12). Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft.

And another one in Hebrew that seems to be missing from the above is 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 14 2016 4:46 PM

Mark Barnes:
If you do three, there are four results in the NT: 1 Cor 2:13, and Rev 4:8, 8:13 and 13:18.

Fast forward to Logos Now in Logos 7.3 OR Verbum Now in Verbum 7.3 so Morph Query finds those four results plus more:

Fr Devin Roza:

Today I was reading Numbers 15:4 in Hebrew, and I noticed that the verse opens with three consecutive words, all of which share the same root in Hebrew: קרב. The verse opens like this:       וְהִקְרִ֛יב הַמַּקְרִ֥יב קָרְבָּנ֖וֹ. The RSVCE translates it "then he who brings his offering shall offer". In Hebrew, however, the three repeated roots sound more like what in English would sound "The offerer shall offer his offering".

 

The root is repeated three times in a row, the first two times from the verb lemma, and the third time from a completely different lemma, a noun ("offering").

Keep Smiling Smile

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