Disappointed

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This post has 272 Replies | 18 Followers

Posts 15
Joel Tamburo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2012 2:39 PM

Hi MJ,

My point was simply that if Bing which is a free web based search/decision engine can properly search phrases and makes the links between names of concepts and their content (like my Pauline exception example) then PC software should be able to do it too. Note I also illustrated this by installing an older Bible Study program and doing the same thing.

BTW, Bing is a lot better than the competition in areas like logical organization and actually serving up actionable results...Big Smile

Posts 12
Danny Truitt | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2012 9:36 PM

I freely admit that I did not read all of the 200-plus posts in this thread before posting this, but I did scan them and I didn't see my exact concern addressed.  If it's in here, I apologize.

I purchased the Logos 5 "Starter" package early on.  I chose it because it was the cheapest way to get the functionality of the new base software, even though it was bundled with books that I did not want or need.  As in the list posted above, I scanned the "dots" on the Starter package, but I guess I didn't go all the way down the list.  Part of the problem was that I had no reason to suspect that Logos 5 would be stripped of some of its functionality which is now packaged as databases, as best I can tell.  I sent an email to Logos (suggest@logos.com) expressing my concerns and offering my suggestions.  I received a form email reply which basically stated that someone would read my email but no one would reply.

My greatest complaint was that the much-touted timeline and other new functionality was not at all a part of the Logos 5 base program, but was now layered in the third level of "libraries."  My suggestion–in it's shortest form–was that Logos at least consider making the timeline and other databases available as a separate purchase without having to buy 200 books that I don't need or want.

To be totally honest, it actually seems deceptive to me.  I did not see anything saying that the timeline was tied to a particular level of upgrade.  I only found out about it in the forums after I could not find it in my upgraded package.  It was, apparently, not "bulleted" in the upgrade list, meaning that I could have known that I was not receiving it.  However, I did not see it primarily because I had no reason to expect that it was not a basic function of Logos 5.  With the library I currently own, it would cost me over $300 to get the timeline functionality.  I am not at all interested in doing that.

I asked for and received a refund on my Starter package, which added nothing to the functionality of my existing Logos library.  I am a Mac user and I started with Logos when they started making a version for Mac.  I have enjoyed the functionality, but it seems clear now that Logos is switching it's marketing thrust to those with deep pockets, or those who have large expense accounts.  There are several options now for the Mac for those like me who do not need 2,500 books.

Danny Truitt

Posts 2277
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2012 11:05 PM

Dear Danny,

You write,

Daniel Truitt:
I purchased the Logos 5 "Starter" package early on.  I chose it because it was the cheapest way to get the functionality of the new base software, even though it was bundled with books that I did not want or need.  As in the list posted above, I scanned the "dots" on the Starter package, but I guess I didn't go all the way down the list.  Part of the problem was that I had no reason to suspect that Logos 5 would be stripped of some of its functionality which is now packaged as databases, as best I can tell.  I sent an email to Logos (suggest@logos.com) expressing my concerns and offering my suggestions.  I received a form email reply which basically stated that someone would read my email but no one would reply.

As I understand it, you will not lose any functionality by crossgrading to a lower package. You will not, however, obtain all of the new functionality introduced with L5. As you rightly say, this new functionality is linked to newly developed datasets. In my view, some of the disappointment with Logos' strategy is linked to a lack of appreciation of the nature of the datasets. Mark Barnes' introductory video which provides an overview of the new features to L5 helps illustrate the degree and complexity of work involved in creating these datasets. The video is available here,

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/59381.aspx

You continue,

Daniel Truitt:
My greatest complaint was that the much-touted timeline and other new functionality was not at all a part of the Logos 5 base program, but was now layered in the third level of "libraries."  My suggestion–in it's shortest form–was that Logos at least consider making the timeline and other databases available as a separate purchase without having to buy 200 books that I don't need or want.

I fully appreciate why you did not wish to read the 200 posts preceding your own Big Smile. This concern has been raised previously and results from a misunderstanding. The good news is that Logos intend to do the very thing you suggest. Bob Pritchett (CEO) has announced that Logos will, in very near future, release a minimal crossgrade which will provide you with much of the functionality of L5 (i.e. datasets) at a substantially lower cost and the free L5 engine which will provide the basic software, but not the additional functionality.

Bob's announcement is available here,

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58259/414636.aspx#414636

Hopefully, one of these two options will better suit your needs.

Blessings in your decision Big Smile

Posts 50
Greg Reader | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 13 2012 11:30 AM

Yes, I scrolled down and looked at all the dots. there were only the three mentioned. I understand and even like the idea of add-ons. To me it just seems that their comparison charts aren't working properly - the new functionalities of Logos 5 which I don't yet have should have dots beside them showing they would be new to me ... but they don't.

Posts 50
Greg Reader | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 13 2012 11:32 AM

Hugely confusing. I hope they're able to fix the bug soon. I'm going to wait until it is clear what I am actually getting before I make any purchase.

Posts 100
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2012 7:47 PM

 

EmileB:

A gracious and Christ-like response, Dennis! Thank you!!!

Agreed! Thank you Dennis.

Posts 7
Lauren M. Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 16 2012 3:33 PM

I, too, am very disappointed to learn that Logos 5 requires an upgrade charge of $470.04. After purchasing the base system, Scholar's Library Gold in my case, and many additional books, I am not inclined to pay again for the new features/functions of the basic system. Upgrades to the base system should be free. I'd also add that the Mac version leaves a lot to be desired--it's not an intuitive user experience and I'm not close to mastering the software despite having the program for several years now.

Posts 1646
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 16 2012 4:16 PM

Lauren M. Mitchell:
I, too, am very disappointed to learn that Logos 5 requires an upgrade charge of $470.04.

To get "all" of the new features etc costs a maximum of $160. 

But please make sure that you are logged in to the website with your usual Logos 4 credentials. - you may discover that you will receive a (slight?) depending on previous Base set/collection etc decrease in that price. Some with "gi-normous" collections have received significant deductions to the price of that "minimum cross-grade" - while another user reported that he only would receive a deduction of $8.

 

 

 

Regards, SteveF

Posts 8
Linda | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 16 2012 5:13 PM

The minimal cross grade is > $100.00

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 16 2012 5:24 PM

Lauren M. Mitchell:
Upgrades to the base system should be free.

Next year Logos will freely offer the Logos Bible Software 5 engine, which can use all Logos 4 features plus use all resources from Logos 4.  Caveat: without a minimal crossgrade or base package purchase, the new Logos 5 features lack appropriate data for use.  Thankful for Minimal Crossgrade addition to upgrade page => http://www.logos.com/upgrade

Personally choose to upgrade to Logos 5 Portfolio, which included a number of resources on my wish list.  The delta increase from Diamond to Portfolio was less than 10 % of the combined regular price for the resources, which were in my wish list.

Lauren M. Mitchell:
I'd also add that the Mac version leaves a lot to be desired--it's not an intuitive user experience and I'm not close to mastering the software despite having the program for several years now.

Logos 4 and Logos 5 have a unique set of User Interface conventions that are a bit different than OS X and Windows: e.g. Documents.

Thankful for Logos 5 full screen on OS X 10.8.2 along with being faster than Logos 4 Mac.  Logos 5.0a SR-1 has the fewest feature parity issues yet between Windows and OS X along with improving User Interface consistency, which is appreciated when switching platforms.

Wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Getting_Started_with_Logos that has a number of Tips for Learning Logos => http://wiki.logos.com/Getting_Started_with_Logos#Learning_Logos Personally planning to participate in a Camp Logos in April 2013, which includes an expectation of learning more about using Logos effectively.

Thankful for many friendly forum discussions about Logos Bible Software: have learned a lot plus have a lot to learn: e.g. Logos Hebrew Morphology has 35 stem variations.  Thankful for resource => http://www.logos.com/product/3438/learning-biblical-hebrew-a-new-approach-using-discourse-analysis that is included in several packages: Verbum Capstone, Logos 5 Diamond, and Logos 5 Portfolio.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 16 2012 5:30 PM

Linda:

The minimal cross grade is > $100.00

Logos 5 Core Datasets are $ 79.95 => http://www.logos.com/product/28494/logos-5-core-datasets

Logos 5 Minimal Crossgrade is $ 159.95 (or less) => http://www.logos.com/product/28376/logos-5-minimal-crossgrade

The Minimal Crossgrade includes the new Logos 5 Core Datasets plus 30 more resources so can use all the new features in Logos 5.

A friend upgraded from Logos 4 Platinum to Logos 5 Silver, then purchased Minimal Crossgrade for under $ 7.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 7
Lauren M. Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 16 2012 5:44 PM

Thank you for the information, Steve. To all respondents: thank you all for the feedback. I was not aware of several alternative packages, e.g., "Minimum Crossgrade," "Core Datasets" and the free version coming next year. And thanks for the Mac tips.

Posts 2
Dillon Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 27 2012 1:19 PM

My 4 collection is now the Spurgeon (portfolio). My 5 is the Darby (silver) still paying for the spurgeon.

 

my only frustration is I upgraded days before 5 came out. I emailed my rep and he doesn't return my emails. He either quit or has a level of shame. I am a seminary student and will not complain about the price because of Logos I have spent 0 hours in the library.

Posts 152
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 27 2012 1:25 PM

I have the same thing with a rep that called me. I was originally contacted but couldn't answer the phone, he called back later and I scheduled time to talk since I couldn't talk then either. Finally, we were able to discuss the matter and he expressed that he wanted to make an offer on some items I purchased and rolling them all up in an upgrade to Logos 5 package to express their apology in the process.

In telling him I would think about it and give him a call back either way, my phone call back was unanswered. I left a voice mail and haven't heard from Logos since.

We'll see...

Posts 5
Daniel Esherick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 27 2012 6:16 PM

KS4J,

I am in a similar situation as the friend you referenced. Logos 5 Silver would work perfectly for me, but doesn't come with one of the datasets; I am now considering Logos 5 Gold. Ironically, it is the dataset I am most looking forward to using.

Let me see if I have this correct. I can purchase Logos 5 Silver (upgrading from Logos 4: Leaders Library). After the purchase I can go a purchase the Minimal Crossgrade and only be charged for the missing dataset. Is that right?

Thanks.

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 27 2012 7:16 PM

Daniel Esherick:

Let me see if I have this correct. I can purchase Logos 5 Silver (upgrading from Logos 4: Leaders Library). After the purchase I can go a purchase the Minimal Crossgrade and only be charged for the missing dataset. Is that right?

Yes, friend upgraded from Logos 4 to Logos 5 Silver, followed by purchasing Minimal Crossgrade for $ 6.14 (dynamic upgrade price for Bible Sense Lexicon).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 80
Angelia Ulrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 6:38 AM

Thanks, Mike, for your posting. This has been SO confusing for me as well. I am a Precept leader, & I did not expect to have to pay another to-me-huge fee. I don't need more Greek/Hebrew. I need some issues w/Logos 4 fixed! I thot I'd just stay w/Scholars as long as I studied & add a new title here or there. What other needs might I or any other Precept leader have? My only possible "out" for Logos is that it has to make money. When will it ever stop? My confidence in them has gone down as well. After much thot & discussion w/others who are in the know, I'm going w/the Minimal Crossgrade, but it's still another $160 which we are told will double in January! We'd best hurry up! How can we recommend this to others--and yet we've come to depend on it! Angelia in Georgia

Posts 10123
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 7:11 AM

Angelia .. you could simply wait until early 2013 and download the Logos5 software for free?

I can't imagine why you'd want the crossgrade, if the original languages aren't a big deal.  I enjoy the original languages, but elsewise it'd be a waste.

One thing you always have to remember about Logos, is they don't tell you what you want to know; only what they wish you to know.  Kind of like when you shop for a used car.


Posts 5
Bob B | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 2:22 PM

If the post from DMB in reply to Angelia is accurate and represents the marketing philosophy of Logos, I will probably remove Logos 5 from my system. I find it unacceptable to support such a philosophy.

Posts 5564
Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 2:25 PM

Bob B:

If the post from DMB in reply to Angelia is accurate and represents the marketing philosophy of Logos, I will probably remove Logos 5 from my system. I find it unacceptable to support such a philosophy.

Not sure what you're responding to. But DMB does not speak for Logos. If you have a specific question about Logos software, or Logos corporation, ask.

EDIT: Forgot to say, I don't speak for Logos either. I'm just a user named a forum MVP by Logos. I'm here to help fellow users use the software.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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