Disappointed

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 2:35 PM

DMB:

Angelia .. you could simply wait until early 2013 and download the Logos5 software for free?

I can't imagine why you'd want the crossgrade, if the original languages aren't a big deal.  I enjoy the original languages, but elsewise it'd be a waste.

One thing you always have to remember about Logos, is they don't tell you what you want to know; only what they wish you to know.  Kind of like when you shop for a used car.

Denise, I truly wish for a Blessed and Happy New Year for you and your loved ones!

            I am saddened by this post of yours!  Certainly uncalled for.  What are you trying to say to Angelia that is going to be helpful for her???!!!!  And, frankly, I definitely believe your post is untrue.  For me my relationship with Logos is certainly not that I'm patronising a used car dealership or used car tactics.  I'm truly sorry that your relationship with Logos has degenerated to this point!

                   I've been a Logos Customer since around 1993, and I'm still thrilled with Logos Bible Software. As you know, I am also a Logos3.0g fan and had it running again today.     Please, Denise. 

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 2:47 PM

Bob B:

If the post from DMB in reply to Angelia is accurate and represents the marketing philosophy of Logos, I will probably remove Logos 5 from my system. I find it unacceptable to support such a philosophy.

Peace, Bob!          Welcome to the Logos Forums!               I notice this is your fourth post!

            The Logos Forums consist of volunteers from around the world who try to help and encourage and support one another 24 hours a day. As I going into another year in a few hours here in Eastern Canada as an older retired Lutheran Pastor I realise that the world still has some improving to do, eh???

                   Please feel comfortable posting and asking questions and making comments!            I'm glad you made your remark.

Unfortunately this last January I had to respond to some unpleasantry also.  There is trouble and evil in the world!    I rejoice that God loved (and loves!) us while we were (and are!) sinners and sent Jesus to suffer and die for the sins of the world.  As we enter the New Year, we can love and forgive and do better. 

             Even if we are abused for it ...    *smile*           This is what I wrote in January ...

 

Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 2 2012 7:02 PM

Randall Cue: MJ you have come closest to the spirit of my original post, and I thank you for that. I am always amazed at how quickly we can change the direction of a "civilized" discussion. I did not want this to drift into a theological debate and stated such in the original post. I regret asking this question as it is obvious that so many that frequent the forum are un able or unwilling to stick to the subject of a post within the guidelines of the forum.

 

A Happy and Healthy New Year and Be at Peace, Randy!

                         Peace in Jesus!  Soli Deo Gloria indeed!   

*smile*               Peace of Heart and Peace of Mind!

            Randy, please keep on posting and please do regret this one.  It was a very good original post and was a good stimulation for us all until it got “bushwhacked.”

            Somewhere I seem to have heard this “Parable of Life” and have tried to reconstruct it for you.

            There is the story of these two guys, friends from the neighbourhood they lived in, who walked to work together on the same downtown street every day. 

            And, every day they encountered a man from their neighbourhood walking the opposite way on his way to work.  One of the guys, every day, greeted the neighbourhood gentleman  with a smile and a very cheery, ”Good Morning, Neighbour!”

            And every day the response was a cold and hostile “harrumph”!  This went on – day after day – week after week – month after month.

            Finally, one of the friends said to his friend, “I can’t understand why you greet him so cheerily every day when he’s such a mean-spirited man who huffs and puffs at the very sight of you.  Tell me why, please.”

            His friend said, “Well, I’m not going to let him decide how I live!”

 

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 2:49 PM

Going to have to disagree here, Milford.

I watched this whole train wreck of a rollout for Logos5. Day after day for a month now folks keep assuming they're going to have to PAY to keep their software up to date, or to maintain their package levels.  Many have been absolutely angry. Indeed lengthy threads have tried to overcome the confusion.

Now you can't tell me that Logos could not have been clear from day 1. Or day 2. Or day 3. Or day 4. Maybe day 10?  How about day 21?  Or possibley 29? Need I continue?  There's no way on God's green earth (red here in Sedona) that this is justifiable to fellow believers. And no we're not in church.

Other Logos users like to say Logos is a business; so therefore it's ok not to properly inform their customers. Fine. But a user car business is the closest match I can see.  How else do you explain not being up front with your own customers? And believers, for goodness sakes?

Now I've no doubt Logos has some great deals. We both have benefitted mightily. But there's many who don't possess wealth nor need.

Nope. This whole situation was 'over the top' as far as I'm concerned.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 152
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 2:57 PM

I don't understand what would have been so difficult with having a free update to Logos 5, just like any other update, then keep all collections the same, and let people buy these super special datasets that everyone keeps harping on as people see fit.

The only reason I think it was not done this way is for increased financial gain.

Hopefully there was enough of a backlash from people talking with their pocket book instead of their mouth that there might not be a next time.

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 3:00 PM

DMB:

Going to have to disagree here, Milford.

I watched this whole train wreck of a rollout for Logos5. Day after day for a month now folks keep assuming they're going to have to PAY to keep their software up to date, or to maintain their package levels.  Many have been absolutely angry. Indeed lengthy threads have tried to overcome the confusion.

OK, Denise!        It has been a train wreck.  However, I've heard Logos speak clearly.    But, it's true and it's sad, others somehow have not heard Logos speak, and that is most unfortunate!               Kindest personal greetings, Denise.  We definitely have to disagree here!

            Heading out the the Kitchen now.     Walking away from my study and my computer.        My wife and I have three live (pound and a quarter to pound and a half) Canadian Maritime Lobsters ready to go into the boiling pot to help us celebrate one more New Year's Eve together!              We met in 1956!             *smile*            Married since 1961!              And it always gets better, eh???     Like our Love From and To God!                *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 3:31 PM

DMB:
so therefore it's ok not to properly inform their customers.

In this whole muddle, I've never been able to figure out why so many misread Logos' statements and preferred to believe the worst rather than accepting the corrections to their misunderstandings - over and over in the same thread.

DMB:
This whole situation was 'over the top' as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, but I probably don't mean it in the sense you do. I found it disheartening that so many people seem so afraid of being taken advantage of that they prefer to believe they are being victimized rather than believing it is a simple case of miscommunication. (Yes, my sister fits into this category as does to a lesser extent my mother.)

Julian of Norwich “All shall be well, and all shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well.”

May all of us experience Christian love, joy, peace and equanimity through out this coming year.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 3:44 PM

Miscommunication sounds nice.  Remember when they said they were 'thinking' about a crossgrade?  Or when they said they 'might' do a free upgrade.

I'll stick with your sister and maybe your mother.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 4:15 PM

DMB:
Remember when they said they were 'thinking' about a crossgrade?  Or when they said they 'might' do a free upgrade.

No, I don't. What I remember is http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58259/414636.aspx#414636

Or as an attempt to explain the ordering of the release http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/413892.aspx#413892

Note the date on these - the day after the initial release if I recall correctly.

DMB:
Miscommunication sounds nice.

To me it sounds scarey - accurate communication is fundamental to society and to our beliefs.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 4:37 PM

Yes, those messages followed Phil swinging out there in the wind.   I could understand the dance, if this hasn't become SOP at Bellingham.

But please make no mistake ... you personally are responsible for a LOT of happy customers. I don't know exactly 'who' did so much for expanding support for Catholics, but I hope you're celebrating a well deserved New Year!  I know you have even more to accomplish.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 325
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 4:54 PM

DMB:

Going to have to disagree here, Milford.

I watched this whole train wreck of a rollout for Logos5. Day after day for a month now folks keep assuming they're going to have to PAY to keep their software up to date, or to maintain their package levels.  Many have been absolutely angry. Indeed lengthy threads have tried to overcome the confusion.

Now you can't tell me that Logos could not have been clear from day 1. Or day 2. Or day 3. Or day 4. Maybe day 10?  How about day 21?  Or possibley 29? Need I continue?  There's no way on God's green earth (red here in Sedona) that this is justifiable to fellow believers. And no we're not in church.

Other Logos users like to say Logos is a business; so therefore it's ok not to properly inform their customers. Fine. But a user car business is the closest match I can see.  How else do you explain not being up front with your own customers? And believers, for goodness sakes?

Now I've no doubt Logos has some great deals. We both have benefitted mightily. But there's many who don't possess wealth nor need.

Nope. This whole situation was 'over the top' as far as I'm concerned.

At some point I have quit caring whether Logos is a business or a ministry.  I have quit caring if they effectively communicate or not with its customers.  I have quit becoming concerned about what deals I need to find to expand my already mighty collection of useless books.  I am not interested in the "free" update with limited usefulness without the databases. I don't want a weekend retreat for learning how to use their "improved" interface and databases.   Really the only thing I desire from Logos at this point is the next sale on the minimum upgrade that will becoming in a year or two that will reduce my cost of keeping this beast on my hard-drive to a minimum...just like I was offered on Logos 4.  

Well I should act like a Christian and have some grace for Logos staff.  If this is a business designed primarily to promote a profit for the company and those who own then all of this god talk is a moot point imo.  At some point this whole debate will be settled by market forces instead of the moral hand wringing of one or another customer to my mind.  What's the bottom line price..period.  

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 31 2012 7:04 PM

Rene Atchley:
Now you can't tell me that Logos could not have been clear from day 1. Or day 2. Or day 3. Or day 4. Maybe day 10?  How about day 21?  Or possibley 29? Need I continue?

Thankful for a blog article on 30 Nov 2012 with lots of Logos 5 information  => http://blog.logos.com/2012/11/5-ways-to-move-to-logos-5/  Blog article in early November 2012 would have been tremendously appreciated.

Looking at blog article about Christmas 2012 deals ending on 2 Jan 2013 => http://blog.logos.com/2012/12/take-advantage-of-logos-christmas-deals-until-january-2-2 noted minimal crossgrades were not mentioned, but 50 % special discount for Book Bundle goes away, which will double the Book Bundle prices.  At the moment, do not know about Christmas 2013 promotions.

For the 12 Days of Logos, seems prudent to wait for 12 days of sale items to appear.  Past couple years have had more sale items appear after the 12th Day.

March Madness has typically been followed by a few days to purchase any sale item.

For Logos 5 upgrade, upgrading in early November was the best deal, which later included some credit from Logos for a number of customers who had upgraded.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 11
Meik | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2013 10:05 PM

One thing I want to say,

I do not understand why I payed that much for this great software and then there is a new version and I who stick with that software and bought already many other resources have to pay for it "again" to get everything out of it.

Wouldn't it be nice customer care/service, to give out that new version as usual like an update for free? Somehow I can not agree to pay again that much just to use few more databases from which some are even similar to the existing ones. 

LOVE GOD AND LOVE PEOPLE!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2013 10:36 PM

Meik:
Wouldn't it be nice customer care/service, to give out that new version as usual like an update for free?

My patience is running out - not at you in particular but at the difficulty of getting Logos forum users to understand that Logos has said that the free update is coming. You do get the full benefits of the resources you own - whether you stay with L4 or move to L5. For speed reasons and a superior user interface, I would recommend you upgrade to the free version of L5. What you don't get is the benefit of resources you don't own.  You don't have to repurchase resources you already own.

Whether or not you wish to pay for the datasets required to give you new functionality is something everyone has to decide for themselves - our needs, priorities and financial resources vary. But whether or not I can afford the new features, I need Logos to keep on developing them. If they fall behind the technical curve, we all lose as they lose market share ... everyone gets less for their money became Logos has less resources to do the developing.

 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 11
Meik | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2013 10:48 PM

MJ. Smith:
My patience is running out - not at you in particular but at the difficulty of getting Logos forum users to understand that Logos has said that the free update is coming. You do get the full benefits of the resources you own - whether you stay with L4 or move to L5. For speed reasons and a superior user interface, I would recommend you upgrade to the free version of L5.

I just mailed to the customer service the other day asking exactly that but the answer is nothing like "free update is coming". Instead I got offered a minimal crossgrade upgrade to L5 for 135 Dollar.

Where is that written, that ther will be a free upgrade without new resources?


LOVE GOD AND LOVE PEOPLE!

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2013 11:24 PM

Meik:
Where is that written, that ther will be a free upgrade without new resources?

In the post from Bob Pritchett which MJ referenced above

MJ. Smith:

in the blog article at http://blog.logos.com/2012/11/5-ways-to-move-to-logos-5/ (option 5)

 

 

Posts 11
Meik | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 2 2013 11:44 PM

Thank you for your post. By now I read this articles as well.

It makes me sad to read all that and having in mind that two days ago the customer service did say nothing about a free upgrade (without new resources) even I asked why I would need an upgrade. I said to him that I actually dont want to pay for a upgrade since I do not need other resources

Just some of the database options are maybe interesting for me.

As I understood that articles, is that right, that there will be a upgrade with the datasets of L5 without new resources for free?

If so, I do not understand why customer service is suggesting a upgrade for over 135 Dollar to me.

LOVE GOD AND LOVE PEOPLE!

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 3 2013 12:04 AM

Meik:
As I understood that articles, is that right, that there will be a upgrade with the datasets of L5 without new resources for free?

No - to get most of the new L5 datasets you need one of the chargeable cross grade options.

The free download will give you the engine and UI (and a few other things) but the datasets are chargeable.

 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 3 2013 1:09 AM

@Meik,

to add on what Graham (and others) already explained:

  • if you don't need any of the new datasets and resources, the free upgrade will give you a speedier and nicer looking user experience
  • if you need all (or the most advanced) new features and datasets, the Minimal Crossgrade (all datasets, some resources) is what has been made for you
  • if you need some of the new datasets, the Core Datasets may contain what you wish (most datasets, no resources)

Look at http://www.logos.com/product/28494/logos-5-core-datasets to compare MC versus CD

Hope this helps,

Mick

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 3 2013 1:11 AM

Meik:
I just mailed to the customer service the other day asking exactly that but the answer is nothing like "free update is coming".

I'm sorry to hear that they didn't make all the options clear to you. I think it is very important that people know that they can keep their current resources and functions at no cost. I happen to appreciate the new functions and hope that some time in the future you can add them. But it is more important that you don't feel mistreated or misinformed.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 11
Meik | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 3 2013 5:31 AM

Thank you guys for your answers, now I understand. 

LOVE GOD AND LOVE PEOPLE!

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