BIBLE SENSE LEXICON Tool

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Posts 258
Claude Brown Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 9:11 PM

David Thomas:

However, if you can afford the price of the upgrade to Diamond you may want to use the extra funds to support Logos by purchasing resources that would be useful to you that are not included in base packages. (e.g. commentaries like EBC or NIVAC or something that is relevant to your theological preferences).

We can all help Logos stay in business to continue developing affordable resources like the minimal crossgrade if we buy resources that we truly would use.

Now that makes sense to me.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 9:17 PM

Jeremy:

 

But George, to say you never called anyone an imbecile is a perfect example of the word-concept fallacy Smile

Huh?!!  Hmm

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 652
Jeremy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 9:22 PM

George Somsel:

Jeremy:

 

But George, to say you never called anyone an imbecile is a perfect example of the word-concept fallacy Smile

 

Huh?!!  Hmm

The imbecile concept was there even if the word wasn't.

Posts 27928
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 9:25 PM

Jeremy:

That might as well be Russian to be. And I don't know Russian Smile.

 

translation: Google "Word Net" Embarrassed

Jeremy:
... James Barr's word-concept idea,

Okay, I checked out James Barr ... none of my linguistics was pre-Saussure or pre-Chomsky so I wasn't aware of the word-concept fallacy. But yes, Word Net does intend to avoid that fallacy. Reading Wikipedia on Barr did answer some of my puzzlement over Biblical word-studies and some of the related materials.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 9:27 PM

Mark Smith:

George Somsel:
I never called anyone an imbecile.

True. At least you've never called me one. (Though none of us know what you are thinking.) Wink

Generally I'm thinking that some want to take a short cut to the promised land without wandering in the wilderness for 40 years.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9118
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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 10:10 PM

George Somsel:
Generally I'm thinking that some want to take a short cut to the promised land without wandering in the wilderness for 40 years.

Well, honestly, those hours in Hebrew class did feel like wilderness wandering. I just don't think my prof knew where the Promised Land was!

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1511
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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 12:15 AM

Dan DeVilder:

if you have some time, i'd be interested in hearing more how it was useful to you--not that you have to teach or lead a discussion (Surprise not on the forums! Smile) but how it is impacting your learning, study, or opening new vistas for you.  

Here is an example of how this is could be useful (mainly when it is complete). Let's suppose I come across the word "master" or επιστατης, and want to go a little deeper. I open up a BWS on the word. To really use this tool, I found it helpful to open up a Bible Sense Lexicon next to the BWS. Here is how it looks:

At this point I have the same information on both sides. Just wait a second on that one. But I can see that this Greek word is used with the meaning of "master = superior" 7 times in the Gospel of Luke, and that's it within the New Testament.

Now, let's say I want to understand better other words that have to do with "master", and how they differ from επιστατης. In the Sense Lexicon I click on "master". Here is what we get now:

So, now we can see that while "master" in general is κυριος, master specifically meaning one who supervises a group is επιστατης. Nice. We also see that there are words in Hebrew which correspond to κυριος, but that there are no words classified to correspond to επιστατης. Whether that is because the database is not complete or not I am not sure, but either way, once the database is complete this information will be extremely useful.

Then I can look at the sub meanings below Master and go deeper. The first three clearly have to do with "master". The fourth, mistress, describes "a woman master who has a degree of authority over something." The fifth is, I imagine, simply a mistake. "singer" is defined by the Sense Lexicon as "one who sings", and does not seem to me to be a "person of authority -- master".

But I think the idea is a good one - by comparing different related word meaning, one can quickly get a grasp of the different nuances in the underlying Greek and Hebrew text and what other word choices the author had available.

So, there's one example for you, anyway. I'm sure as the tool becomes better developed and the databases more complete many more will become evident.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 12:22 AM

Bob Pritchett:

The Bible Sense Lexicon covers nouns. Our team plans to add coverage for verbs, and then hopefully all the words.

Updates (with more words, and improvements to the existing ones) will be coming out on a regular basis. These will arrive as resource updates, and don't require new versions of the application.

From what I gather, only senses of nouns in the New Testament have been actually classified up to now. Is that correct?

Even a word study, for example, on a Hebrew noun brings up senses of the corresponding Greek term in the New Testament, but not in the Old Testament. The Hebrew vocabulary seems to be very complete, and with appropriate definitions and corresponding words, but without actually tagging words from the Old Testament.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 3:56 AM

Mark Smith:

George Somsel:
Generally I'm thinking that some want to take a short cut to the promised land without wandering in the wilderness for 40 years.

Well, honestly, those hours in Hebrew class did feel like wilderness wandering. I just don't think my prof knew where the Promised Land was!

I WANT THE LIKE BUTTON!!!!! No, wait, the DOUBLE LIKE button!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 3768
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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 3:58 AM

Fr Devin Roza:

Dan DeVilder:

if you have some time, i'd be interested in hearing more how it was useful to you--not that you have to teach or lead a discussion (Surprise not on the forums! Smile) but how it is impacting your learning, study, or opening new vistas for you.  

Here is an example of how this is could be useful (mainly when it is complete).

Thanks for taking the time, Fr Devin.  I haven't played around with it much yet.  It sounds similar to Louw/Nida, but more manipulative and user friendly.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 190
EmileB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 4:20 AM

Ah, but George! It wasn't God's intention for ISrael to wander in the desert for 40 years. He wanted them to be able to go straight to the Promised Land. They ended up wandering in the wilderness for 40 years because they were rebellious and wouldn't trust in Him.

Ergo...

If "taking a short cut to the Promised Land" = using an interlinear....

and if "wandering in the wilderness" = learning the original languages and NOT using an interlinear....

and...

if "taking the short cut to the Promised Land" = God's original intention for His people and a sign of their faithful submission to Him....

and "wandering in the wilderness for 40 years" = an indication of rebelliousness and a refusal to trust Him....

THEN...

Using an interlinear is an indication of God's original plan for us, and a sign of faithfulness,

While learning Greek and Hebrew  and NOT using an interlinear is an indication of rebelliousness and a refusal to trust him.

Big Smile  Wink  Stick out tongue

 

Posts 93
Robert C. Beckman Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 5:59 AM

Really don't know where to stick this comment, here seemed good.

Logos clearly has a three-pronged strategy or approach.

1. Software. A sophisticated means for searching, arranging, and exploring the Bible and other related texts.

2. Publishing. Providing and ever expanding library of resources covering the broad field of "biblical studies." To this end they have agreements with publishers from the Gutenberg Galaxy, bringing those works into a fully functional digital library.

3. Hermeneutics. As Logos has incorporated more "academic" editors, produces more in-house works (Lexham), and develops the meta-tools for exploring the text (Bible Sense Lexicon,); It is clear that Logos is providing the umbrella of a conceptual exegetical/hermenutical process. It is a discourse driven model. (I would expect that I am not the firs person who became confused when I first looked at the syntax feature and found little that was familiar from my studies of Greek syntax. What Logos meant or was doing, was apply discourse methodology to the text. Once I realized that I was easier to make sense of the data and use it.) So Logos provides a suite of tools to investigate the discourse-driven functional meaning of words.

 

In an earlier post I mentioned that I was coming to understand that much of the upgrade pain for long-time users is that we are helping to invest in that third strategies. Those oft-mentioned databases/data-sets/meta-tools are hermeneutical tools,  Not the time or place to get into a philosophical discussion but my perspective is that understanding the big-picture, or grasping the whole model helps to understand some of the niggling details.

Posts 3768
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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 8:54 AM

Robert C. Beckman Jr.:

Really don't know where to stick this comment, here seemed good.

Logos clearly has a three-pronged strategy or approach.

1. Software. A sophisticated means for searching, arranging, and exploring the Bible and other related texts.

2. Publishing. Providing and ever expanding library of resources covering the broad field of "biblical studies." To this end they have agreements with publishers from the Gutenberg Galaxy, bringing those works into a fully functional digital library.

3. Hermeneutics. As Logos has incorporated more "academic" editors, produces more in-house works (Lexham), and develops the meta-tools for exploring the text (Bible Sense Lexicon,); It is clear that Logos is providing the umbrella of a conceptual exegetical/hermenutical process. It is a discourse driven model. (I would expect that I am not the firs person who became confused when I first looked at the syntax feature and found little that was familiar from my studies of Greek syntax. What Logos meant or was doing, was apply discourse methodology to the text. Once I realized that I was easier to make sense of the data and use it.) So Logos provides a suite of tools to investigate the discourse-driven functional meaning of words.

 

In an earlier post I mentioned that I was coming to understand that much of the upgrade pain for long-time users is that we are helping to invest in that third strategies. Those oft-mentioned databases/data-sets/meta-tools are hermeneutical tools,  Not the time or place to get into a philosophical discussion but my perspective is that understanding the big-picture, or grasping the whole model helps to understand some of the niggling details.

that's evidence of a lot of thought and reflection.  thanks, Robert.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 451
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 9:02 AM

Janice:
If this is the case then I might as well drop my Diamond upgrade and go for the minimal crossgrade since you guys are promoting it like crazy.... How unfair to those who paid for this upgrade and the resources. I thought we paid for the upgrade/features as well? Is that not the case anymore?

Diamond includes all of the features AND a ton of resources. The minimal crossgrade only gives the new features, and none of those features would be new to you if you already have Diamond.

Posts 93
Robert C. Beckman Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 11:50 AM

I do tryBig Smile

Not bad for the only certified fork-truck-drive/ordained ministry in the state of IL

 Bob

Posts 3768
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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 2:02 PM

Robert C. Beckman Jr.:

I do tryBig Smile

Not bad for the only certified fork-truck-drive/ordained ministry in the state of IL

 Bob

YOWZAAAA!

You're not related to Ernie, are you? (EDIT: I know an Ernie Beckman, from when I lived in Lincoln, IL)

 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 93
Robert C. Beckman Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 2:14 PM

Dan,

Ernie is my little brother. Spent most of Saturday at His house immersed in Sports.(and food) Drop me an E-mail and perhaps we can make some connections

Bob

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 2:36 PM

Robert C. Beckman Jr.:

Dan,

Ernie is my little brother. Spent most of Saturday at His house immersed in Sports.(and food) Drop me an E-mail and perhaps we can make some connections

Bob

cool!  he was  Lincoln around the same time--I think I was in seminary.  then i was in campus ministry at ISU when he was up there.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 113
LogosEmployee

BSL does address the word-concept fallacy to some degree by suggesting that the meanings of words are only understood in relation to the meanings of other words. So, words are not isolated concepts. But, the aim of BSL was not specifically to address this fallacy. BSL is based on linguistic theory that has developed since Barr.

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 4:37 AM

Jeremy Thompson:

BSL does address the word-concept fallacy to some degree by suggesting that the meanings of words are only understood in relation to the meanings of other words. So, words are not isolated concepts. But, the aim of BSL was not specifically to address this fallacy. BSL is based on linguistic theory that has developed since Barr.

Jeremy, does Joel know you're here? ;)

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