Official: Minimum Crossgrade and free engine download are coming!

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Posts 1694
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 5:01 PM

ManilaDave:
There is another aspect to this as well. Once the initial roll out is completed Logos will raise the price of its offer to us. After all their offer to us states a price that is  "today only"! So not only do we backbone customers get devalued in the new launch we get shafted on price later. 

I hope you'll find that the initial discounts are in place long enough to be available when you want them. If you're unable to participate then because you're already committed to too many pre-pubs, give us a call. We don't want anyone to feel taken advantage of or abused in any way, and if so we'll do whatever we can to make it right.

ManilaDave:
I've raised a similar issue before without response from Logos. When they cluster the release dates of many pre-pubs around the same time we're often forced to choose between resources we really want and make a priority choice on the basis of the resource we consider most valuable to us at that moment. I suggested that in the case where this happens that Logos hold the pre-pub price open for a period for the customers who through their pre-pub order enabled the product to get to production in the first place. But I received no response. I've been unable to purchase several resources [all collections or sets] I really wanted because of this. 

I'm sorry you didn't get a response sooner. This is an ongoing topic of discussion here, and we need to balance many concerns. Among the issues: the books are produced in parallel. Hundreds of people are working on many resources at once, and with 2,000+ shipping per year to every-possible-permutation of customers, it's impossible to "smart schedule" the release dates. Extending the discount period seems like a good solution, but that effectively takes away the point of pre-pub, which is a discounted price for an early commitment. (If the price doesn't go up, everyone can wait a while to buy, then pre-pub is no different than just adding it to the web store at a fixed price.) There are possible solutions to this, and variant models we could try, but most of them require web coding that we haven't been able to get to yet.

Please do know that we're aware of this issue, and it gets a lot of thought and attention here. We are working on solutions.

Posts 2381
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 5:42 PM

Bob,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Even though I am one of those who has experienced numerous prepub releases at the same time (this is going to happen again in about 10 days), Logos is not responsible for placing my orders - I am.  And as much as I wish there would be a gradual release of prepubs, it's impossible for Logos to develop a release schedule when so many different customers place so many different orders.  One month I may have no prepubs shipped when someone else has many.

So - I appreciate the time and effort Logos takes to work with each customer.

By the way, I have talked to customer service and we have already worked out a plan for me to afford my prepubs.

Another happy customer!

PS.  I am patiently waiting for the Crossgrade so I can play with Logos 5 too.

Thanks again,

Ron

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 6:04 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
With dynamic pricing, a minimal crossgrade has potential for 4 price points:

But then there's the people who want to upgrade directly from L3, or who don't have a base package at all, but just want the features.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 629
Steve Maling | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 6:23 PM

Hey, Dan Cousins,

Thanks for calling us into prayer, and for the prayer you offered. Smile

Posts 6
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:32 PM

Beautifully perfect response! Thank you for taking the time to clear things up, and offer us your great new features at a very reasonable rate. 

Simply! Thank you and God bless! 

Posts 19
Robin Monks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:52 PM

I do hope that at the very least Logos will keep the intro pricing up until the cross-grade can launch; otherwise we'll have no way to compare pricing. I'm also curious if I upgrade to a lower base package if the % discount on the higher ones vanishes (eg, if I pay more to upgrade to broze then to silver than if I went directly to silver).

So, right now I can upgrade to Starter for $48, and Bronze for $226. If I get Starter today can I buy Bronze for $178 tomorrow, or will the discount on Bronze be less so the total would be more than the $228 I'd have paid for it initially?

 

Thanks!

Posts 2256
Forum MVP
John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 8:16 PM

 Robin

I bought a lower package and the discounts did change. However, I think I could call sales and could get the original pricing if done within 30 days or so. 

Posts 40
Rick King | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 8:19 PM

Robin,

I would suggest that you give the good folks at Logos a call first thing tomorrow when they are open.  They are quite reasonable and if you voice your concerns over this, they might be willing to make arrangements with you regarding all of this uncertainty.  If you spend a certain amount of time going over the lists of things you will get with this new version, start with the package that is going to give you the largest discount.  It may be more than you want to spend, but go through the lists of stuff.  Most of it to me is beyond my skill level, and although useful at some point, I couldn't really see the value of owning of it.  Then I found some commentaries and devotional resources like the works of Baxter and Tozer.  Here's a helpful hint in your decision making progress.  When they give you a price for a resource, cut that price in half.  You know that they are going to put that on sale at some point.  You just have to be patient and wait for it.  If you can add up a number that comes pretty close to equating to the price they are asking about 100 dollars short, then you should probably just do it.  I say 100 dollars short as the minimal crossgrade is going to cost you something.  We don't know for sure what that is, but I would venture to say it is probably around the 100 dollar mark.  If it turns out to be 50 or 150, you are still only 50 dollars off in your calculation.  Personally, I think it is the only way in which you can justify the expense of a large amount of money is by pulling certain things out of the huge list that really speak to you.  Now, if you manage to talk yourself into the larger process and just can't manage to push yourself into the pool... ask your sales person if there is any way to buy into the lower package and test the waters a bit and still be able to get that special price on that bigger package  a week or two down the road.  All they can do is to say no and then you know you will have to jump now or lose that 15-30 percent discount.  The lists of stuff you have to wade through is pretty intimidating.  I think that if you concentrate on picking out the things that you really like in the list and with the big ticket items like commentaries and such, using half the price they give you as a guide will help you.  I am sure somebody in sales will be groaning at the half price thing but really, even with that, you will find that the dollars will really add up quick.  If you can't get the dollar amount at one level, drop to the next one and try there.  You will find a happy spot where you can feel good about what you are getting and end up with some really cool resources that you really like and will use.  Along with that will be a whole slug of other stuff that you might or might not make use of.  Forget about that part and just concentrate on the things that you know you will cherish and use over the years to come.  :-)   If you can't afford it all right  now, do the payment plan thing. 
I hope that helps you, then again, it might just have wrapped your head around the proverbial light pole. 
God Bless!

Robin Monks:

I do hope that at the very least Logos will keep the intro pricing up until the cross-grade can launch; otherwise we'll have no way to compare pricing. I'm also curious if I upgrade to a lower base package if the % discount on the higher ones vanishes (eg, if I pay more to upgrade to broze then to silver than if I went directly to silver).

So, right now I can upgrade to Starter for $48, and Bronze for $226. If I get Starter today can I buy Bronze for $178 tomorrow, or will the discount on Bronze be less so the total would be more than the $228 I'd have paid for it initially?

 

Thanks!

 

Posts 1646
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 8:38 PM

 

John Fidel:
the discounts did change

If I get Starter today can I buy Bronze for $178 tomorrow, or will the discount on Bronze be less so the total would be more than the $228 I'd have paid for it initially?

John did they change in similar % like this--or will Robins (above example) be penalized?

Regards, SteveF

Posts 235
Tom Geswein | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 10:56 PM

In my experience, upgrading in L4 from Scholar's to Silver to Platinum, I paid a bit more for it because I did it in steps like that.  I don't remember the exact amount, but I recall that it was more than I expected.  (I am guessing it cost me $100 more, or so, because I upgraded this way.)  Buy the most expensive package you can afford, for the best discount.

"It seems our problems solve themselves when we look beyond us to those truly in hell."  -  Beyond Our Suffering - AILD

Posts 451
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 11:33 PM

Tom Geswein:

In my experience, upgrading in L4 from Scholar's to Silver to Platinum, I paid a bit more for it because I did it in steps like that.  I don't remember the exact amount, but I recall that it was more than I expected.  (I am guessing it cost me $100 more, or so, because I upgraded this way.)  Buy the most expensive package you can afford, for the best discount.

This is true when the upgrades are spaced out far enough. If you upgrade within the 30 day return period, you'll get full credit for the previous purchase. Customer support was great when I called though and gave me full credit even though it had been a few months since my original purchase.

Posts 24
Sam Emil | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 12:38 AM

Great, very helpful, satisfying post, we love logos, thank you for all the hard work you are doing to make our bible study easier and more fun.

Posts 19
Robin Monks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 5:02 AM

Thanks for the answers, folks!

 

One more question to those who've made the jump to 5: will it overwrite 4 or install along side of it, and will it use existing resources I downloaded or re-download my entire library?

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 5:05 AM

Robin Monks:
One more question to those who've made the jump to 5: will it overwrite 4 or install along side of it, and will it use existing resources I downloaded or re-download my entire library?

5 overwrites 4 and uses the same resources. However, there is still a big download because many resources were rebuilt for L5.

Posts 61
Rich Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 5:37 AM

Bob,

I join my brothers in Christ in thanking you for your honest and complete response to our questions. I only gained more respect for you and for the entire Logos team. Even though we can't truly afford it right now, because of you answer I'm tempted to just go ahead anyway and upgrade to Diamond!! :-)

Posts 19
Robin Monks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 5:52 AM

Rick King:
Here's a helpful hint in your decision making progress.  When they give you a price for a resource, cut that price in half.  You know that they are going to put that on sale at some point.  You just have to be patient and wait for it.  If you can add up a number that comes pretty close to equating to the price they are asking about 100 dollars short, then you should probably just do it. 

Using this method I ended with with in the neighborhood of $1200 of things I actually wanted for $420; so I grabbed the Silver package. Thanks for the tip :)

Posts 11
Christopher Sanchez | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 5:56 AM

I completed my upgrade yesterday as planned and am quite happy with the new interface and the resources I received (Silver to Silver).  Now I am making my plans to move on up to Gold.

Chris

Posts 19
Robin Monks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 6:30 AM

Christopher Sanchez:
I completed my upgrade yesterday as planned and am quite happy with the new interface and the resources I received (Silver to Silver).  Now I am making my plans to move on up to Gold.

I couldn't find the same value in Gold; but, maybe there'll be some Black Friday/Christmas/March special that'll make it unbearably attractive. I was using the Scholar’s Library before moving to Silver (which is presently downloading). I was able to originally get the Lender's Library at a significant discount thanks in part to finding some Libronix CDs in a discount software bin at a local retailer :P, then I jumped to Lender's Library during a massive sale. So far Logos has been one of the best investments I've made.

Posts 42
Naveen Balakrishnan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 11:54 AM

Hi Bob,

 

Pre-pubs coming due at the same time has been a struggle for me especially during August and I now see there is one bunch load coming up  in the next couple of weeks.  It is frustrating to want resources that help deepen my study and understanding of the scriptures, but at the same time being able to afford it all at the same time.  Logos 4 has been a tremendous tool of which I have no doubt.  But I have spent close to 5k in less than a year and then to be shocked with a brand new version which has changed some of the resources in the same platinum level.  I am not sure that I understand the mechanics of this but I am torn because God has called to be good stewards of His manifold grace.  I am not sure that there is an easy answer to this dilemma of releasing pre-pubs at the same time as well as people who have just bought Logos 4 in the past six months.

However, I am perplexed about this Logos 5 (new to you) includes in its pricing for my account NAC as new to me while I already own most of the resources in that set (37 of 40).  I am not sure how the online discount calculator is configuring resources that I already own.  I don't know the configurations of this tool which takes all that stuff into consideration or does it see me not owning the 40 volume set (as opposed to having paid the 37 vol set and just lacking the three newer volumes added to this configuration).  This leaves me in quite a quandry.  I am not sure the sales people have an adequate answer to this issue.

 

Please apprise.

 

In Christ Alone and for His Glory

Naveen

Colossians 3:16

Posts 42
Naveen Balakrishnan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 12:04 PM

Hi Bob,

I just checked on my upgrade discount calculator and it shows that Believers Church Bible Commentary (24 vols) is new to me while I already own this particular set and shows up in my library.  I really don't have the time to go through every set and every volume I have to see if that has been configured into the discount to come up with a price for me in order for me to upgrade either to Platinum, or Diamond or Portfolio.  Is the tool working properly and if it is, then the page is not posting that correctly.  I am quite frustrated with this as you can see.  An unjust scale is an abomination to the Lord.  Scripture says that we should rather choose to be defrauded than to defraud someone knowingly or unwittingly.  I am not giving up on Logos nor on your team.  I want to you do what is right and that the information that is given is done right.  Provide all things honest in the sight of all men is the admonition of the Scriptures.

 

In Christ Alone and for His Glory

Naveen

Psalm 119:9-11

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