I'm impressed again!

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This post has 22 Replies | 2 Followers

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:27 AM

First I was impressed with the tagging of pronouns in searches....now I just realized that when you search, there are "search helps" that come up....

 

Amazing....very nicely implemented.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 7:38 AM

Even the formerly bloated "power lookup" is blazing fast!

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 3:22 AM

Robert Pavich:

Even the formerly bloated "power lookup" is blazing fast!

Whiplash! That is fast Surprise

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 4:16 AM

Jack Caviness:

Robert Pavich:

Even the formerly bloated "power lookup" is blazing fast!

Whiplash! That is fast Surprise

Jack I'm getting jealous, waiting for the cross grade, hearing you share things like this.... is the Mac version that much improved?

Remember my post from last year about the Text Comparison window ( http://community.logos.com/forums/t/38491.aspx ) where I posted technical information. Can you try something like this? Is that substantially improved also - be great if that was the case.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 4:58 AM

Patrick S.:
Remember my post from last year about the Text Comparison window (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/38491.aspx) where I posted technical information.

Got an "Access Denied" message with that link

Text comparison of two verses in Mark for all English Bibles came up fully populated in between 2 and 3 seconds. Took a bit longer to spread the window across two displays to make it readable though Geeked

Patrick S.:
is the Mac version that much improved?

Yes, especially notes, although auto linking of Scripture references must await a new rtf engine.

 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 5:01 AM

Jack Caviness:

Patrick S.:
Remember my post from last year about the Text Comparison window (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/38491.aspx) where I posted technical information.

Got an "Access Denied" message with that link

This is due to the ")" - try http://community.logos.com/forums/t/38491.aspx 

 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 8:59 AM

Jack Caviness:

Patrick S.:
Remember my post from last year about the Text Comparison window ( http://community.logos.com/forums/t/38491.aspx ) where I posted technical information.

Got an "Access Denied" message with that link

Ahhh my fault the link got confused with the ")" character when I copy/pasted, I have fixed that up.

 

Jack Caviness:

Text comparison of two verses in Mark for all English Bibles came up fully populated in between 2 and 3 seconds. Took a bit longer to spread the window across two displays to make it readable though Geeked

The real acid test would be (using example from my original post) if a user, by mistake or otherwise, had a Bible book selector on a whole book rather than a verse or verses. So for example there is a Bible window open and the search/selector says "Isaiah" instead of, say, "Isaiah 64:1". In this case (as I detailed in my previous post) L4 goes gaga.

I am really hoping that L5 improves dramatically in this scenario. Would I be imposing if I could ask you to try that scenario in your L5 Cool

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 12:39 PM

Patrick S.:
The real acid test would be (using example from my original post) if a user, by mistake or otherwise, had a Bible book selector on a whole book rather than a verse or verses.

Although I see no practical value in such an operation, I tried it with the entire book of Romans in Top Bibles. did not time the action, but it was somewhere in the vicinity of 1-2 minutes. Waiting for Isaiah while typing this post. Took 5 minutes 45 seconds to complete, but it did compare all 66 chapters. NOTE: The Romans test was conducted with L5 as the active application while the Isaiah test was with L5 in the background.

In a slightly more practical test. set Compare to follow with all English Bibles while scrolling text in the NKJV in two or three different Bible Books—response was instantaneous throughout the test.  

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 12:44 PM

See http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58697.aspx

Can you verify if this occurs on your L5?

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 12:52 PM

Patrick,

Just for additional information, typing Isaiah into the "Go" box in Windows creates the same time lag and slowdown. This is not a Mac issue, but an issue as to how a user may create undue delays in how they use the program.

I can see how it can happen, and perhaps Logos should pop up a warning that this operation will take time and provide options before just proceeding with processing reports on such a large amount of information, or limit the search to the first few chapters and then ask if it the user wants to continue. The problem is really with the reports that are not designed to operate that way. For example do you want the exegetical guide to open and parse every verse in Isaiah? How about the Passage Guide etc.

Your comment is valid and I do think Logos should address a work around to avoid users putting the program through this process unless they really intended to do so.

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 12:59 PM

Jack Caviness:

Patrick S.:
The real acid test would be (using example from my original post) if a user, by mistake or otherwise, had a Bible book selector on a whole book rather than a verse or verses.

Although I see no practical value in such an operation, I tried it with the entire book of Romans in Top Bibles. did not time the action, but it was somewhere in the vicinity of 1-2 minutes. Waiting for Isaiah while typing this post. Took 5 minutes 45 seconds to complete, but it did compare all 66 chapters. NOTE: The Romans test was conducted with L5 as the active application while the Isaiah test was with L5 in the background.

In a slightly more practical test. set Compare to follow with all English Bibles while scrolling text in the NKJV in two or three different Bible Books—response was instantaneous throughout the test.  

I agree fully that one would not do that intentionally, however in the first place it only happened (I found problem) because Logos 4 somehow changed verse selector from single verse to whole book.

It's a big ask from the software (any software) I was more interested to see how well Logos 5 dealt with the (unusual) situation. In Logos 4 the text component only used (maxed out) one of the cores on my i7 CPU 27" 16 GB RAM iMac when it has 8 cores (4 hyper threaded). That meant essentially that the machine died - when it had much more available resources. I put this down to a) Logos programming b) old version of Mono because of c) old version of .NET.

I have read that Logos 5 now uses .NET 4.5, that plus the positive comments people are saying about performance makes me hopeful that Logos programmers have done a number of improvements which, particularly for us Mac users, will result in real benefits.

I would do the tests myself but I am waiting for the cross grade + Data Sets availability Crying

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 1:01 PM

Patrick, as a fellow Mac user I think you will really like L5...

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 1:13 PM

John Fidel:

I can see how it can happen, and perhaps Logos should pop up a warning that this operation will take time and provide options before just proceeding with processing reports on such a large amount of information, or limit the search to the first few chapters and then ask if it the user wants to continue. The problem is really with the reports that are not designed to operate that way. For example do you want the exegetical guide to open and parse every verse in Isaiah? How about the Passage Guide etc.

Your comment is valid and I do think Logos should address a work around to avoid users putting the program through this process unless they really intended to do so.

Fully agree. I make sure to do exegetical passage queries on only one verse at a time Smile

I don't think anyone would expect the software to process exegetical guide for all of Isaiah instantaneously, and the programmers should take proactive steps to deal with user errors. As you say there are a couple of things that can be done:

  • "Are you really sure?" dialog boxes.
  • Then regardless of what user says to that question the software should not attempt to process a whole book (for Exegetical Guide passages, or Text Comparison window etc.) but only, for example, ten verses at a time. Then as user pages up or down process the next ten verses.

Comes down to using resources well and understanding that users will make mistakes and protecting system from that.

Regardless though, as I mentioned in just earlier post, I saw in Logos 4 that the app did not take advantage of resources sitting idle that it could have. So hoping that has improved.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 3:15 PM

Patrick,

I know you are waiting so I do not want to tempt or create a desire in you to update sooner, but everything in L5 Mac is better... enough said.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 5:57 PM

David L Bailey:

See http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58697.aspx

Can you verify if this occurs on your L5?

Yes, but I did it going from Hebrews to James—took just a few seconds for that.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 5:59 PM

Patrick S.:
In Logos 4 the text component only used (maxed out) one of the cores on my i7 CPU 27" 16 GB RAM iMac when it has 8 cores (4 hyper threaded).

It was using more than a single core when I check the Activity Monitor in one of the searches. don't remember which one.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 6:02 PM

Patrick S.:
Comes down to using resources well and understanding that users will make mistakes and protecting system from that.

As we said in the USN, "It it practically impossible to make any system idiot-proof" Big Smile

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Martin Potter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 5 2012 10:15 PM

Patrick S.:

It's a big ask from the software (any software) I was more interested to see how well Logos 5 dealt with the (unusual) situation. In Logos 4 the text component only used (maxed out) one of the cores on my i7 CPU 27" 16 GB RAM iMac when it has 8 cores (4 hyper threaded). That meant essentially that the machine died - when it had much more available resources. I put this down to a) Logos programming b) old version of Mono because of c) old version of .NET.

The process of generating the text comparison information is multi-threaded in both Logos 4 and Logos 5. The large amount of single-threaded CPU usage you see is the UI framework, Cocoa not Mono, attempting to layout tens of thousands of characters of text in a narrow view. This is the case for both Windows and Mac.

Mac Developer
Faithlife

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 2:57 AM

Martin Potter:

Patrick S.:

It's a big ask from the software (any software) I was more interested to see how well Logos 5 dealt with the (unusual) situation. In Logos 4 the text component only used (maxed out) one of the cores on my i7 CPU 27" 16 GB RAM iMac when it has 8 cores (4 hyper threaded). That meant essentially that the machine died - when it had much more available resources. I put this down to a) Logos programming b) old version of Mono because of c) old version of .NET.

The process of generating the text comparison information is multi-threaded in both Logos 4 and Logos 5. The large amount of single-threaded CPU usage you see is the UI framework, Cocoa not Mono, attempting to layout tens of thousands of characters of text in a narrow view. This is the case for both Windows and Mac.

Martin thanks for taking time to reply and detail what is happening in Text Comparison window, appreciate it — really do.

Of course the system, and coding for it, is naturally up to you guys. Has it been considered though to catch situations where a user — intentionally or not — types in a whole Bible book in the Text Comparison entry field instead of a verse/small range of verses and only process a range of verses at a time instead of the whole book in one go. In that case the UI framework would not have to process huge numbers of characters and user perceived performance would be improved.

Thanks for your time, if you are able to answer that would be great, if you can't (for policy reasons etc.) that's OK as well.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 3:28 AM

Patrick S.:
Has it been considered though to catch situations where a user — intentionally or not — types in a whole Bible book in the Text Comparison entry field instead of a verse/small range of verses and only process a range of verses at a time instead of the whole book in one go.

Wish they would also consider Cmd-. or Escape as a means to terminate an operation initiated then regretted.

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