Greedy customers

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This post has 37 Replies | 9 Followers

Posts 356
Ralph Mauch | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 2:13 PM

Yes, I've never dealt with a company that is more gracious to it's customers them Logos!!!

Posts 838
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 3:08 PM

Ralph Mauch:
Yes, I've never dealt with a company that is more gracious to it's customers them Logos!!!

I agree.  Bob &Co. have been as gracious and forthcoming as any group of people as I have ever seen.  Have mistakes been made?  Certainly, but they are the first to admit it and to try and make it right.  Have they acted with the evil intentions that they are accused?  I have seen no proof - only what appears to me to be histrionics on the part of the accusers.  The petulance that has been on display over the past week or so has been an embarassment to say the least and, I suspect that several of the posts wounded people in B'ham deeply.  One wonders what ever happened to the Christian notions of

patience

being satisfied with what God has allowed you to have - whether much or little

not coveting what others have

not casting aspersions or jumping to conclusions when you really do not know the facts or the circumstances

not making slanderous remarks

going in private to a brother or sister whom you think has wronged you to confront them instead of making public accusations

not allowing grace towards you to morph into an entitlement mentality

etc.

 

JRS has left the building.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 4:03 PM

Francis:
This goes also with generous policies such as constant free program updates. I  would be the first to groan if I learned that -- as in the case of the release of Logos 5 -- I have to dish out more money to upgrade.

A bit over 3 yrs ago (I know because that was when I moved to be nearer my daughter and granddaughter) I purchased a new version of WinZip—version 12.  I recently received a promotional email offering an upgrade to the program—version 17.  In a bit over 3 years the program has been upgraded 5 times with a charge for each upgrade.  The fact that Logos updates its programs which were originally free and does so without charge is not a sign of a greedy company.  This is why I sometimes become rather incensed at some of the vicious characterizations of Logos.  Does Logos do everything just as I would wish?  No.  Unless they have included it in L5, there is still no Weights and Measures function which was in L3.  They continue to pump out interlinear versions which I consider to be an abomination and counterproductive to gaining proficiency in the original languages—here I think the do a great disservice.  But greedy?  Not a bit.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 190
EmileB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 9:17 AM

Completely in agreement with you, Francis. Well said.

 

Posts 109
Larry Heflin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 10:41 AM

Yes.  The OP expressed some of my thoughts, but put them more politely than I was tempted to do. If present and past history is an indicator, the scenario that we've just witnessed will no doubt be played out for every upgrade of the program with few lessons learned. It's "Deja vu all over again." I couldn't help but think that if Christians are a reflection of their God, in view of the borderline hysteria, impatience, public accusations, and threats to punish Logos in some manner, what a small and poor God He must be in the eyes of some. Amazing that the upgrade of a product could set the world spinning out of control when it was probably in control just the day before said announcement. Hopefully, what we are looking at is a small and vocal minority and not representative of large numbers. I have used and benefited from Logos before the latest upgrade, and will continue as before. When I think I've reached the end of my ability to upgrade I'll use all the valuable tools and resources Logos has provided me until that point.

 

Larry

Posts 2951
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 10:54 AM

Yes  What Francis said!

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 19689
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 11:13 AM

Francis:
This being said, there is the opposite danger. I have grabbed a lot of freebies over time: on vyrso, free book of the month, etc. There is a point when perhaps the freebies tend to be taken for granted, as if they were to be expected and owed to us, so that there is no longer much of gratitude involved in the "grabbing". This goes also with generous policies such as constant free program updates.

This reminds me of a story I heard a long time ago. One day, a man walks up and down both sides of a residential street knocking on each door and handing the owner a $20 bill. The homeowners are puzzled as to why they should be given this money for nothing, but most of them thank the man and accept the gift. The next day the man walks down the street again and hands out another $20 bill to each homeowner. Most still express their gratitude and wonder why they deserve this but they are more quick to close the door and go back to what they were doing. The pattern continues on day after day. Soon most of the homeowners are beginning to just grab their expected $20 bill and look forward to the next day. One day, the man stops coming around. Most of the homeowners are out on their front steps shouting to the air, "Hey, where's my $20?!" But one guy is saying, to no one in particular, "Oh thank you, whoever you were, for that totally unexpected and undeserved gift."

Posts 3132
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 11:48 AM

Francis:
On a final note, I know of very few who like Bob Pritchett

I like Bob.  He seems like a great guy.

Geeked

 

(grammar matters...)

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 19689
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 11:52 AM

Doc B:

Francis:
On a final note, I know of very few who like Bob Pritchett

I like Bob.  He seems like a great guy.

Geeked

(grammar matters...)

Very true. However, in this case, it's punctuation that matters. A comma after "who" and "Pritchett" would have made all the difference.

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 11:54 AM

The Parts of Speech matter Big Smile

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 18
Eric Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 9 2012 9:00 PM

Praise the Lord, from who all blessing flow.  I have read the posting you are talking about. But I have to tell you, I have never in all my years of studing, learning, and growing, had access to such an awsome set of tools wherein I did not have to pull one book after another off the book shelf and hunt and hunt until I found what I was looking for. Now with all the advances in the computer world, I spend so much less time in a single resource, which allows me to turn my attention to my family, friends, and my passion of sharing Christ with others. And not in a Church setting but out in all the world.

Thank you for your post, well said, and well thought out. 

Posts 146
Joe Mayden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 10 2012 3:23 AM

Well said Francis.

Posts 2041
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2012 9:57 AM

In the past I've been ordering base-packages (one Protestant and one Catholic) that include the least amount of unwanted items. I'm open about what I DON'T want. If an L5 base-package such as Gold would be missing 50 of the very best titles compared to the current content, I wouldn't be complaining, to the contrary I would be happy. My final decision whether to upgrade, crossgrade (the big crossgrade), just download the free engine, or even stick with L4 (as I'm not overly bothered about the speed issues) will depend on whether my nearest real theological college require me to purchase a whole bunch of the books in Gold, or not as, mandatory text books (I'm speaking of the 2 semesters of Protestant "basic" college theology, probably not much more, full-time).

I fully understand now (at first I was surprised that there was no base-package like Original Languages Library anymore, that contained only a minimum number of theological books) the probable reasons behind the absence of customation.

I've suggested a model of being freely able to choose which 2 titles in a base-package You DON'T want and drop them from the order.

Francis:
I know this is a lot of blab, but this is just a thought to consider: can we, not because we must, but out of a desire to be just in our business dealings with others, also value "fair compensation" for Logos' products and services? Can we choose to pay at times to support the company's efforts and ongoing development, as opposed to just trying to get the most for the least all the time and as much as possible for free?

I offer the challenge not from above but from below as I have caught myself doing this. Perhaps most of you are more spiritual than I am and are above such considerations. But for the rest of us, something to ponder.

Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 12

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2012 10:06 AM

Well, Unix, you're right again.

When they put 'theological' books into the mix, they automatically include some potentially from Satan himself (I'm reading the apostolic fathers; that's their opinion, not mine of course).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2012 6:43 PM

DMB:
(I'm reading the apostolic fathers; that's their opinion, not mine of course)

Big Smile

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2012 7:07 PM

Larry Heflin:
Yes.  The OP expressed some of my thoughts, but put them more politely than I was tempted to do.

Francis, the OP, wrote a very gracious post.  Glad to read it.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2
Fr. Tim | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 12 2012 9:52 PM

Francis:
 But one guy is saying, to no one in particular, "Oh thank you, whoever you were, for that totally unexpected and undeserved gift."

Thank you all for this thread. I believe one of the most valuable antidotes to our culture's tendency to want to consume is gratitude. When I don't feel I have enough it's time to start making my gratitude list, something I don't practice enough. I am grateful for the ability to use Logos in my studies, spiritual reading, and homily prep and I am grateful that Logos is in the business of staying in business, as that helps us all!  

Posts 302
JPH | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 13 2012 7:21 AM

Agreed. I was a little put off at first when I was going to have to pay $2k to upgrade from L4 Portfolio to L5 Portfolio, but then I did a simple search of the "new to you" resources (great feature btw) and found I was getting at least $15k in resources for $2k (that's almost a 90% discount). Granted, I'm not that interested in most of what is in the new package, but the total of items in the new package that were already on my wish list was over $3k. So I'm thrilled to pay a couple grand for so much. When else are you going to find a sale like this? Logos has been more than generous with their upgrade packages.

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