I believe this is a bug. Logos 5 stops restart or Shutdown in Mountain Lion. After it does it, I can shutdown or restart, but it does it again the next time.
Mmmmm — not necessarily. Other Mac apps can stop shutdown (restart) of OS X, not just Logos. Basically question is whether app will allow an 'unattended' shutdown of itself. I don't believe Logos 4/5 will, nor do I think it is a good idea to. Just manually close down Logos cleanly before shutting down your Mac.
Wow. Seriously? It's not a bug. It's a feature. Come on.
Of course other apps can stop shutdown/restart in OSX. But they only do so if they are in the middle of a process and then they usually ask rather than automatically stop the process. Besides, your logic is flawed. If this was intentional behavior I would HAVE to manually close Logos. I don't. I just have the inane need to activate a shutdown twice. Foolishness.
That happens to me when I go to shut down the Mac. I notice it hangs out on the Syncing screen when shutdown aborts. I believe Logos does this to protect your content, though it would be nice if shutdown could be delayed until syncing was done.
If you're interested in a really fast shutdown, open terminal and type "sudo shutdown -h now" to shutdown or "sudo shutdown -r now" to restart. Doesn't matter what you have open, your computer is restarting. You could even create a [desktop/dock] shortcut to execute that for you if you're really in a hurry.
I didn't say it was a feature,I implied it was a necessity/requirement/'good thing'.
I have other OS X apps that stop shutdowns from time to time, anyway on the point of shutting down Logos it (usually) has constantly open TCP/IP connection to Internet (Logos servers), I wouldn't be pushing/forcing it to shut down. It's no drama to me to shut it down, YMMV.
I believe Logos does this to protect your content
[Y]
And Logos isn't smart enough to figure out a better way to protect my content, like Evernote does? You lot don't think much of Logos, do you? THey are better than this and you should expect them to get there.
Is there a more appropriate place to submit my bog reports/feedback? I really do not want to debate why something doesn't work, but rather give them the feedback and let them decide what to do with it.
I didn't say it was a feature,I implied it was a necessity/requirement/'good thing'. I have other OS X apps that stop shutdowns from time to time, anyway on the point of shutting down Logos it (usually) has constantly open TCP/IP connection to Internet (Logos servers), I wouldn't be pushing/forcing it to shut down. It's no drama to me to shut it down, YMMV.
The definition of a feature doesn't include "necessity/requirement/good thing"? You are justifying bad software design because it found a bad way to accomplish a good thing that can be done a better way. Moral theology doesn't work that way (ends don't justify the means), why should software?
Why is it "drama" to ask and expect better behavior from my software? And why are so many spending so much time defending mediocrity?
This forum is good and you were right to post here. [:)]
I don't think this is a bug because I believe Logos intended this behavior… but I could be wrong. I don't know if there is still time (there is a limited window), but you could try amending your subject line to include BUG:, which would catch the attention of Logos sooner. If my assumption that this is "intended" behavior, you could try making a suggestion in the suggestions forum.
You seem to be a bit touchy about this. A few people have already suggested it could be down to protecting data. If you want to complain to Logos you're free to of course. I won't be spending any more time on this discussion myself.
If L5 is busy is can abort a shutdown request. Other Mac programs do the same thing (I've had the apple mail app do this same thing when it had trouble syncing with the Yahoo mail server. The mail app doesn't put up a dialog box when this happens. it simple drops me back a the desktop.). Doing this every time you shut down is not normal behavior. You might want to post your logs here so that some of the more technical people could try to help. Also, have you tried calling Logos Technical support?
Thank you all. I found and submitted to Logos tech support my email. To clarify, Logos does this every time and long after I last used it, so it seems process independent. It's a new 15" MacBook Pro Retina display so there should not be much time needed to complete any processes.
I don't think we can put this all on Logos either. I think Mac OS's shutdown procedure is faulty. I did a restart this morning to clear things out, and before I hit the restart button, I remembered to close Logos.
Clicked restart, and the restart was stopped because of MacVim. So I went to close that program (figured there was an unsaved file or something like that) and found that it was closed by the OS.
Clicked restart again, and the restart was stopped because of iTunes. After I clicked the dialog that told me the restart was halted, iTunes closed on its own.
Clicked restart a third time, and that was the charm.
It seems to me that Apple has no patience when it comes to the shutdown procedure. If it can't immediately terminate a program, it stops the whole thing. If it would be willing to wait a few seconds and let users save files, programs shut down cleanly (e.g. Logos), then you wouldn't be having the shutdown issue. They have the countdown timer that gives you a minute after you click shutdown/restart; seems like they need another one while sending programs the TERM signal (that lets the user abort shutdown, or have some time to save files, or send the KILL signal to programs to force shutdown now).
So Patrick, I understand your irritation with this problem, but from my experience, I would place blame more on Apple than Logos.
It seems to me that Apple has no patience when it comes to the shutdown procedure.
You know, at least one very popular operating system simply hangs up the system if is can close a program on shutdown. While I think that it would be better if OSX put up a dialog box to let choose to wait for the programs to close or abort the shutdown failing back to a functioning operating system is more graceful than simply locking up the computer [W]. I definitely wouldn't want the system to kill a process automatically. Force shutdown should always be the user's choice since it could require some cleanup afterwards.
Logos does this every time and long after I last used it
Since no one else seems to be experiencing this, perhaps logs might help identify the reason it happens on your system.
im definitely experiencing it.. been waiting a half hour now for logos to figure out what shut down means. I don't like it when 500 dollar software doesn't work.
Welcome [:D]
Personally have learned to quit Logos 4 and Logos 5 on OS X before shutting down OS X since niether application shuts down quickly when working online.
If working offline or have Use Internet set to No, then Logos 4 and Logos 5 quit much faster.
Keep Smiling [:)]
I had this same problem with the same mac. Now my Logos 5 will not shutdown at all without a force quit.[:@]
I had this same problem with the same mac. Now my Logos 5 will not shutdown at all without a force quit.
It would help if those of you who are having this problem would post logs. I noted this in my previous post, but so far no one has posted them.
The most convenient way to enable logging is to use the Applescript LogosLogging by KS4J. (Restart of Logos needed after enabling)
Then use Logos Log Scribe to create an archive of the logs on your desktop.
Use the paperclip on the message prep window to attach.
This has been an annoyance to me as well.
I also find this very frustrating. While other applications sometimes stop the mac restarting,
Logos does it every time ! Other applications ask you to do this if there is unsaved data. It's a design fault of logos in my opinion. If every application demanded we did this,then restarting a machine would take a long time. I do think that Logos should fix this.
Does this for me as well, plus it is terrible when on a slow connection as even the "Abort Sync" button doesnt work.
I had a similar issue with beta 5.1 (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/64139.aspx) ... L5 would not shut down unless I force quit.
It was solved, but seems to have returned with the latest Beta.
The symptoms are the same, except that this time even the logos installer cannot exit the logos App when it is trying to install new resources!
Annoying yes ... fatal no ...
Since it is 'crashing' on every exit, it is then also generating an infernal logos error report the next time that L5 loads ... again ... annoying ... but that is what Beta is all about .... first to the new toys and the first to break them!
My mac is also generating apple error reports. In the past I have always posted errors here, but this time I have left it completely to the L5 error system. Does anybody know if the L5 Error system collects the apple error info. When posting in the past, I have been asked to attach the apple report as well ... is that still needed? Should I still be reporting here as well?
Just in case ... here is the latest apple error report that was generated as I tried to close L5.
1184.Apple error report.txt
with logs ...
... OK maybe without logs ... the .gz file that I wold normally attach does not seem to ant to attach to this forum software :-( I can select the file, press insert and then nothing ... even when I wait ! Probably another file type/naming issue ... although the script I am using to compile the list (downloaded from these forums) has always worked before.
B7 ... still will not quit ...
OK ... my last post appears to be less than a line long ... It was was a longer post where I attempted to include a log. this uploading did not work (yet again), and the editor started behaving incorrectly. I was able to type, and spell check, and 'post', only the editor display was corrupt. I did take a screen shot, and will post it in a separate post (!).
I am using a fully up-to-date version of Safari on ML.
Hmmm .... now what? ... I could 'upload' my png screen shot ... but that turns out to be displayed as a little blue icon ...
[edit] I can follow it to see the image, but would have expected the image to appear in the body of text ... is this another file type issue? Are png files not displayed?.gz file not uploaded etc.?
Returning to the OP.
B7 ... L5 still will not exit, even when it is the L5 updater trying, or the cmd-Q, or the menu. It still then generates an error (apple). It still then, on every launch, generates a (different error (Logos).
Could somebody at Logos reassure me that the crash is happening after all the internal databases and syncing has completed, and that there is no potential data corruption? (and that the issue is logged and being fixed, that assurance would be nice as well [:P] )
Thanks.
Are png files not displayed?
.PNG files SHOULD work, but sometimes of late they don't. Another option is to use a .jpg… but I am normally too lazy to convert my automatically rendered .png's.
.gz file not uploaded etc.?
They SHOULD upload as well… however, I hate getting them since they aren't native to Mac. Someone told me once that they are… but they aren't… At least, I can't open them without converting them first. You must have some additional software that compresses it into that format? If you follow my signature line, there is a tool Logos has created for logging on Mac… it works very well and perhaps the file compression it creates will upload better for you.
Thanks Alabama ... I had been using 'Logos Log Scribe' from 2010 and missed the 'Logos own version'.
Problem is that the Logos Logging utility does not seem to work ... or at least it seems to have the constant message that I should restart L5 (despite multiple restarts). I do not know if this is the fault of the logger, or an issue with the start-up process of Logos, that when a crash has occurred (every time for me) it reports the crash rather than making any changes that the logger needs.
Either way ... the logger has made a variety of log files, both archives and snapshots
I have attached two
1. After Quitting, whilst L5 is still active (in the dock), a sample :
2. After force Quitting, No L5 alive, An archive of the logs:
As a footnote, when I clicked on the logger app, to initiate the sample, the apps window expanded to say that I need to restart L5 for changes to take effect. This does not happen when L5 is running normally, but seems to happen when L5 is in the twilight state. Obviously the logger is checking for the active presence of L5, and I presume that whatever code within L5 that would respond is no longer functioning.
... And the forum software is not letting me insert the zip file either ! I will copy them to a windows machine and have a go later.
OK ... still no joy uploading, either from a VM on my Mac, or from a native windows box at my college. The native windows box (W7 ie9) did give me an error message though:
I am not sure that it helps much though ...
I will try to publish the logs through sugar sync ...
This first log was a snapshot taken when L5 had been asked to quit but had not managed it
https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D924098_61241820_490423
This second log is an archive of the logs after L5 was force quit.
https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D924098_61241820_490435
Let me know if this works... I have not used SugarSync like this before.
Let me know if this works
It looks like it did… but your issue of shut down is beyond my ability to assess. I have the issue from time to time as well… but it doesn't seem to be as persistent as your issue.
I have responded in your original thread here.
Logos 5's final sync process is what is cancelling the Mac's shut down sequence. This is expected behavior. The behavior is similar to if you had an unsaved information in a word processor. The request to save/don't save/cancel unsaved information would stop the process.
If you hit CMD+Q with Logos active then shut down the machine the sequence will complete successfully.
Logos 5's final sync process is what is cancelling the Mac's shut down sequence. This is expected behavior. The behavior is similar to if you had an unsaved information in a word processor. The request to save/don't save/cancel unsaved information would stop the process. If you hit CMD+Q with Logos active then shut down the machine the sequence will complete successfully.
Thanks Tommy, that's useful information.
To everyone who thinks this is annoying (that includes me): I think the problem lies squarely with Apple. When you shutdown, it should send a TERM signal to all applications (like Cmd+Q for Logos) and then wait for programs to respond. It ought to have a timer that cancels (or forces shutdown if you choose that setting) if you don't clean up all your apps saving and syncing, but as of right now it decides to immediately cancel shutdown the moment a program wants user input or needs to briefly do some shutdown/cleanup work.
I run into this with a lot of programs on the Mac. For instance, Skype does this to me. There's no reason Skype can't just quit the moment I want to shutdown, but it prevents the Mac from shutting down. In the end, I think Apple's shutdown model is broken, and Logos happens to be a program involved in the issue.
I too am now getting regular crashes on either Shutdown or quitting Logos 5. Has happened since i updated Proclaim to .739. But im still running the latest stable version of Logos 5. Perhaps these are linked?
