Looking for your opinions: Should verbum get a forum of its own?

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Harbey Santiago | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 16 2012 8:49 AM

Folks,

    I just upgraded to L5 via the verbum package. In case you do not know Verbum is a "Catholic flavored" Logos package. With its own list of resources. Since it is clear Logos Co. is trying really hard to build a Catholic audience. What do you think should Verbum get its own forum group?

  <DISCLAIMER> I'm not trying to start any theological discussions here (You could e-mail me a deaconharbey@yahoo.com if you want to engage me in one) I just want to get the sense of the Logos community on this question.</DISCLAIMER>

Deacon Harbey Santiago

Archdiocese of Baltimore

 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 16 2012 9:03 AM

Harbey Santiago:
Verbum is a "Catholic flavored" Logos package. With its own list of resources. Since it is clear Logos Co. is trying really hard to build a Catholic audience. What do you think should Verbum get its own forum group?

A clear answer from me: No

To put this into perspective, I'm an evangelical, not a Roman Catholic. Nevertheless I own the catholic Scholar's package and will probably upgrade to a Verbum package. But that's not the point. the Logos forum is not for theological discussion, as you pointed out yourself, but about usage of the software and the resources - which includes error reports, suggestions, beta testing and such. All these things are independent of the Set Verbum to yes/no switch.

I happen to think that Logos.com has too many subforums already and people constantly post general items into system specific subforums and vice versa, functionality and resource issues are often not really separatable etc. A new structure for Verbum would require users like me to check both forums constantly, to cross-link information to and fro etc. 

From what I see here, people are very diverse and many of those are interested in using Logos and buying resources all over the place. I think the catholic library builder packages and other such things sold to many evangelicals, Calvinists, Lutherans....  and we wouldn't want to miss when Logos publishes Benedict's "Jesus from Nazareth" Vol. 1 at last (and Vol 3!). We wouldn't want to deprive the Catholic users from the best help they could get with using Logos either.

My 2c

Mick

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 16 2012 9:12 AM

NB.Mick:
My 2c

I am in agreement with you. I have no problem with Catholic-specific threads (or any other denominational thread) but I think building walls is not a great idea. It is to everyone's benefit to know what is being offered resource-wise.

addendum:  Certain anti-Catholic groups may welcome an out-of-sight out-of-mind solution.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 1178
David Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 16 2012 11:03 AM

From what I can see with Verbum set to Yes, users get a different set of Blog and advertizing information priorities so the focus of a Verbum forum may be a little different than the Logos 5 forum and that would be the place to discuss the different focus and any issues arising about how the Verbum interface operates: and the differences may become greater in the future as Verbum focuses on Catholic resources and more and more resources become available overall.  The different interfaces may pull in different information or at least pull in with different priorities.  We may indeed see other different interfaces offered in the future, there was already a thread lobbying for Lutheran interface to be called Wort. 

The different interfaces started as I recall with Libronix 3 where there were litterally dozens of different "Home Pages" from which a user could select depending on which CD packages they had acquired. Many of those L3 home pages, while nominally static rather than dynamic with L4 and L5, did in L3 days link to individualized specific resource types and priorities, although in L3 days the focus of the different home pages was primarily publisher specific.  While the dynamic home page concept came together as one customizable home page type in L4, with more and more resources with wider and ever wider scope, there is room for not only a variety of different interfaces but a variety of different fora too.

If there were reason enough to establish a different interface such as Verbum, then a seperate forum focussed on that interface is appropriate, as are seperate fora for Logos 4 and Libronix which are themselves different interfaces working with similar (but not exclusivley identical) resource sets.

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 16 2012 11:41 AM

I think that the differences in default settings between Verbum and Logos are so minor that it would not be useful to separate the forums. I also think that the number of questions in the wrong forums have gone up as Logos has created more and more forums. I would like to see some combined so that newbies could see where they should post more easily.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 16 2012 11:56 AM

David J. Wilson:
If there were reason enough to establish a different interface such as Verbum, then a seperate forum focussed on that interface is appropriate,

I think that the creation of the Verbum name was a business/marketing decision not a software decision. The preset options made be slightly different but they can be set to standard Logos settings. The difference are minor, things like:

  • one may have the Verbum blog on your homepage
  • one does not have the online sermons sections in the default Passage Guide
  • the default canon is Catholic for the Old Testament
  • you get three predefined collections: Catechism, Church Fathers, Church documents
  • you get the command needed to toggle your application between Verbum and Logos 5 behavior
  • by default a lectionary shows

I would personally have preferred if Logos had called the divide liturgical/non-liturgical including the Jewish side as liturgical.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 16 2012 12:48 PM

I may be relatively new, but I do think we are better off all in one group.

(sense of humor warning)
Besides if we are all grouped together, we protestants might have the opportunity to rub off on the Catholics *chuckle*.

On a serious note though, I have no problem with the interdenominational nature of the forum. As has been stated, we share a common heritage, and certain vintages of authors and products will appeal to us all. Plus, the software is common to us all. It would just make more work for those taking care of the forum; and really, what would we gain by being separate? Two forums with less activity, and fewer posts on relevant subjects? Lots of redundancy? *shrug*

Perhaps I just need to take a shower *chuckle*. do we protestants smell bad?

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 16 2012 1:26 PM

MJ. Smith:

  • you get the command needed to toggle your application between Verbum and Logos 5 behavior  

And what is the command?  Can Logos 5 switch to Verbum mode? Or can only Verbum switch between modes?

Or maybe if they just added the Verbum Blog to Logos 5 home page configure 

maybe we just need to rename the Logos 5 forum to Software 5 [and Logos 4 to Software 4] 

[[consider this as a not needed at this time vote]]

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 16 2012 1:33 PM

MJ. Smith:

I think that the differences in default settings between Verbum and Logos are so minor that it would not be useful to separate the forums. I also think that the number of questions in the wrong forums have gone up as Logos has created more and more forums. I would like to see some combined so that newbies could see where they should post more easily.

Once again, Yes

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 16 2012 1:41 PM

David Ames:
Or maybe if they just added the Verbum Blog to Logos 5 home page configure 

I had suggested that, as had others, before the Verbum name appeared on the software.

The magic words are:

Set Verbum to Yes

Set Verbum to No

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 135
Noel Fitzpatrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 3:04 PM

I agree with the general thrust of this debate.

A separate huddle for Verbum users would not be of general advantage.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 5:26 PM

Noel Fitzpatrick:

I agree with the general thrust of this debate.

A separate huddle for Verbum users would not be of general advantage.

Noel,

lots of things have changed in the last two years since this thread was active. In the meantime Logos has generated denominational forums for lots of particular groups (Reformed, Lutheran, Pentecostal, SDA...) and has installed Product Managers for these and a dedicated line of Base Packages for each. Experience shows that especially the suggestion/discussion of resources works in a much more interactive way than in the large Suggestions forum. In addition to that, Verbum now has its own installers with a (slightly) different codebase and its own webshop (which links to the forum). 

Thus, from where we stand now, a Catholic forum would be seen by many Catholics not as a form of "segregation" and having none is felt as discrimination. That's what I read from other threads - in fact Bob has already promised a Catholic forum, it just hasn't materialized yet.  

Given our current situation, I would stand by the intentions of my post above, but have changed my opinion on the question of a separate catholic forum: when we have half a dozen other denominational forums, there should be a Catholic one, too (as one of the various subforums here, not a fully separate one on Verbum.com, of course)    

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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David Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 2 2014 4:45 PM

There are now TWO reasons for seperate fora:

  1. A Catholic forum for discussion of available resources and packages in the same manner as other tradition specific fora which have appeared over the last few years
  2. A Verbum forum for discussion on Verbum specific software and user interface issues as Verbum is now a seperate software download (albeit having a major amount in parallel with Logos, it is as different as Logos 6 is distinct from Logos 5 or Logos 4.

Neither would be for theological discussions: they can happen elsewhere for those who need them....

I would also like to see an end to what gives an appearance of discrimination/segregation which has so far avoided any linkages between the Logos.com and Verbum.com pages..... or is Verbum not part of the Logos Network / Faithlife group of sites ?
(you seem to be able to get to Faithlife from Verbum, but you cannot get to Verbum from either Logos or Faithlife)

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 2 2014 5:13 PM

Agreed NB - if SDA and orthdox get product forums, why not Catholics and Baptists?

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 5:01 AM

David J. Wilson:

There are now TWO reasons for seperate fora:

  1. A Catholic forum for discussion of available resources and packages in the same manner as other tradition specific fora which have appeared over the last few years
  2. A Verbum forum for discussion on Verbum specific software and user interface issues as Verbum is now a seperate software download (albeit having a major amount in parallel with Logos, it is as different as Logos 6 is distinct from Logos 5 or Logos 4.

Neither would be for theological discussions: they can happen elsewhere for those who need them....

I would also like to see an end to what gives an appearance of discrimination/segregation which has so far avoided any linkages between the Logos.com and Verbum.com pages..... or is Verbum not part of the Logos Network / Faithlife group of sites ?
(you seem to be able to get to Faithlife from Verbum, but you cannot get to Verbum from either Logos or Faithlife)

And from abondservant   Agreed NB - if SDA and orthdox get product forums, why not Catholics and Baptists?

Yes, it is time for a Catholic products Forum and a Verbum functionality Forum.  

[Hopefully soon or at least before 'set Verbum to on' no longer works]

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 7:14 AM

I can't remember exactly, but I think it may have come up before regarding a Catholic Products sub-group like the other faith traditions to discuss resources, authors, etc.  I look in those other sub-groups and it seems to be a big help to those parts of the Logos community.  I understand the software part of the discussion remaining in General or Logos 4/5/6.

Posts 670
Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 7:31 AM

David J. Wilson:
I would also like to see an end to what gives an appearance of discrimination/segregation which has so far avoided any linkages between the Logos.com and Verbum.com pages..... or is Verbum not part of the Logos Network / Faithlife group of sites ?
(you seem to be able to get to Faithlife from Verbum, but you cannot get to Verbum from either Logos or Faithlife)
Call me crazy, but I willing to bet you that the new Catholic forum is more likely to be totally separate as well, probably accessible from Verbum.com and hence not accessible from the Logos.com website for reasons better known to Logos staff. 

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