Lexham Bible Guides Over-priced?

I've been curious about the price as well.  I've jumped into prepub with the Lexham Bible Guide: Jonah to test the waters, unless Logos might shed some more light on how these guides work.

My understanding is that these resources take some of the legwork out of familiarizing yourself with relevant resources in your library.  It probably also introduces you to "potential resources" for further study. 

Paul ... obviously you're not familiar with what happens when you 'jump in the waters' with Jonah. Luckily Leviathans typically don't digest wallets.

Thanks for your feedback. In light of the comments, I’d like
to offer some thoughts on the Lexham Bible Guides and why they’re valuable for Logos users. Lexham Bible Guides perform research
on biblical material for you by offering a curated and annotated set of links
to the most relevant content in the Logos library. True to their name,
they serve as a “guide,” not only to particular biblical books, but also to the
vast territory of your digital library. The Lexham Bible Guides are designed to
save you time by introducing and summarizing significant issues in the biblical
text, and by leading you to the most relevant discussion of these issues in other
resources. Most fundamentally, the Lexham Bible Guides help you take advantage
of the interconnectivity of Logos’ software. They’re designed to maximize the
potential of Logos’ core software engine, and there really isn’t anything
comparable to them on the market. The Lexham Bible Guides are written with the features and interconnectivity of Logos’
software in mind. We’ve established the current
prices based on delivering this kind of value.

I have the Ephesians guide and I agree with your question and observations Edwin.   There seems to be an unusual mix going on.   All the guide seems to be doing for me, who has most of the resources in my library, is possibily saving me time.  But I am not sure that it is doing that because I do not know what the Lexham criteria for "relevant" is (which takes one back to the question of the target market).

Mike Grigoni said:

Consulting these commentaries with the commentary provided by the Lexham Bible Guides should provide users with enough context to benefit from reading these more challenging resources. Given this, there’s an aspirational quality to the Lexham Bible Guides.

I bought the Ephesians volume to check out the series, but was unimpressed. I haven't seen anyone's posts saying that they were happy with the content/price. 

At this point, I think I will stick with the FaithLife Study Bible, which uses a similar concept. It is currently free and the LBG's are very high priced for the oriignal content that they deliver.

"Busy pastor, bible study teacher, or bible student" seems to contradict with a very high dollar value set.  Also referring to high dollar commentaries seems out of place.  I think the market research for this set is invalid, or the price point is invalid.  Or both.

A set with a bunch of links to other sets???   [:S]

Evan Boardman said:

Why not save us more time and write the sermons for us ? 

See Sermons.Logos.com, SermonCentral.com and SermonAudio.com, each linked through the Passage Guide.  [;)]

Evan Boardman said:

Andrew Baguley said:

 

Evan Boardman said:

Why not save us more time and write the sermons for us ? 

 

See Sermons.Logos.com, SermonCentral.com and SermonAudio.com, each linked through the Passage Guide.  

Thats just wrong!

Does that mean you don't want to be able to sort/search them on intended audience, geographical location, demographic, theology, denomination, etc. so you can find the right one more easily?  [:D]

Mike Grigoni said:

Thanks for your feedback. In light of the comments, I’d like
to offer some thoughts on the Lexham Bible Guides and why they’re valuable for Logos users. Lexham Bible Guides perform research
on biblical material for you by offering a curated and annotated set of links
to the most relevant content in the Logos library. True to their name,
they serve as a “guide,” not only to particular biblical books, but also to the
vast territory of your digital library. The Lexham Bible Guides are designed to
save you time by introducing and summarizing significant issues in the biblical
text, and by leading you to the most relevant discussion of these issues in other
resources. Most fundamentally, the Lexham Bible Guides help you take advantage
of the interconnectivity of Logos’ software. They’re designed to maximize the
potential of Logos’ core software engine, and there really isn’t anything
comparable to them on the market. The Lexham Bible Guides are written with the features and interconnectivity of Logos’
software in mind. We’ve established the current
prices based on delivering this kind of value.

 

 

You know I have been one of the biggest defenders of Logos when they have really taken a beating but this time I can't. The pricing on these resources is ridiculous and for no substantive content it just borders on seeming greedy to me. I am really put off by this whole thing.

Sorry Mike but there is no value in these resources based on their pricing and the fact they point heavily to commentary sets a student or average pastor is never going to be able to afford.  I cancelled my pre-orders for these after getting the Ephesians volume.  Logos is taking there own hype on this series too seriously if they really think this series is value for the price being asked.

Perhaps Logos could consider using these guides as a promotion for sales of the higher end commentaries to which they link: perhaps even develop a specially priced bundle including commentaries and guides ? (Naturally with appropriate discounts for titles and sets already owned.) [:)]

Stephen Thorp said:

There must be some sort of bullet point summary contained within the guide and links to volumes that are already in the majority of base packages or in an affordable price bracket.

I like this thought. I don't mind the links to the higher priced resources, but I do wish there was more of a balance of also linking to those resources that are provided in the base packages. This would at least allow those who can't afford the higher priced resources to still get sufficient use out of the series.

Evan Boardman said:

Andrew Baguley said:

 

Evan Boardman said:

Why not save us more time and write the sermons for us ? 

 

See Sermons.Logos.com, SermonCentral.com and SermonAudio.com, each linked through the Passage Guide.  

Thats just wrong!

If you are using SermonCentral to save writing a sermon then I would agree with you that it is wrong.

However, if you are studying the passage privately and want to see how some folks have preached the passage then it is no more wrong than reading a commentary instead of doing all the language/history/exegetical work yourself.

Every blessing

Alan

I also had placed pre-pub orders for all Lexham Bible Guides. However, after looking at the content of the volume on Ephesians, I felt that these guides are way overpriced. Based on the current pre-pubs of
Lexham Bible Guides, the average cost of a volume is $36. If I assume that Logos
produces one volume for the 66 books of the Protestant Bible (which is not
correct as Genesis has 2 volumes), this means the total series is about $2,400.
And to make all links work, one needs to have invested again thousands of dollars in other resources. 

Now, all pre-pubs for the Lexham Bible Guides are canceled and Ephesians was returned.

I liked the idea of this.   I had bought Gen 1-12 on prepub.  I was very disappointed.  It was extremely brief, referenced a very limited number of resources, and overall did very little for what I expected in a $30 investment.  I returned it and I do not plan on buying more of these, unless the get into the <$5 range.  I think they should come free to users - they are a great way to introduce people to resources you don't have.

Doug ... thank you for commenting. Your post really surprised me (mainly the last line).  I didn't post on this thread but I admit to 'thinking' the exact same thoughts as the posters, so I'd like to at least apologize for  my thoughts!

I think everyone REALLY wants to see the value in these; certainly they could not have been produced without considerable effort.

Maybe there's 'more to the story' than we're aware; I can easily see the value for these in the Bible study segment between 'read the Bible in 360 days' and the more serious commentaries. Maybe I'm just being somewhat blinded by the pricing strategy.  The target customer certainly needs some serious funding.

Mike I appreciate what Logos is attempting to do with the Lexham Bible Guides. For me however, even with your reasonable explanation there is no way that I can justify that kind of outlay on something just to save me time. I believe that one of the most basic reasons for purchasing Logos itself is to save in research and preparation time ("a whole digital library at your fingertips", etc.).  It appears that now we are being encouraged to save time with what is supposed to save us time in the first place! For two reasons I will be passing up the opportunity to buy these resources: 1) I cannot justify "outsourcing" my research of the biblical text to others. I need to engage with the literature and process things for myself - this is far more appealing to me than a prepackaged presentation of the issues. How will my research and analytical skills be honed if I depend on others to serve it up for me? I am sure that the Lexham Bible Guides would save me time as a busy local church pastor, but I have major reservations about relying too much on the research and summation efforts of others because of the resultant "fast food" mentality that it engenders. 2) To me these Lexham Bible Guides are way too expensive for what they offer. Unless or until they become more reasonably priced I will go to trusted commentaries and dictionaries where I can find equally good summations of the lines of argument, albeit minus the fancy charts and frills of the LBG.

Doug Mangum said:

David,

I'm sorry you found the guide to Gen 1-11 too brief and feel we didn't engage enough resources. To satisfy my conscience, I checked our word count and how many resources we used for the guide.

 

• Our word count is just under 49,000 words. That's roughly a 200 page manuscript, typed double spaced, 12 point font. 
• We interacted with 25 different commentaries 
• We used 23 different reference works (bible dictionaries, encyclopedias, original language lexicons, etc.) 
• We discussed an additional 46 resources (ranging from scholarly monographs on Genesis and journal articles to popular level books on relevant topics to general introductions on the Old Testament to NT commentaries to theological works to translations of primary texts from the ancient Near East). 

We compiled similar data on the Gen 12-50 Bible guide earlier in hopes of showing that we have covered the material thoroughly (it just made it to the Logos blog today). We (the authors) don't set the prices, but we are trying to provide a quality product. 

 

It seems like every time I read something from Logos on these resources the response boils down to "but we really like what we have done!" These resources are nowhere near worth what Logos is charging for them no matter how many numbers Logos uses to try and justify the price. I have always been and will always be a huge Logos fan. It is the best Bible software on the planet but they have grossly missed the mark with these products and should probably at this point bury them and move forward with other ideas. Sorry Logos not everything is going to be a homerun and with this one you struck out looking.

Doug Mangum said:

We compiled similar data on the Gen 12-50 Bible guide earlier in hopes of showing that we have covered the material thoroughly (it just made it to the Logos blog today). We (the authors) don't set the prices, but we are trying to provide a quality product. 

Doug, these are interesting stats, and there is no doubt that the Genesis 1-11 guide is in a different league to the first-released Ephesians guide, as I stated elsewhere.  (http://community.logos.com/forums/p/59989/440052.aspx#440052)

I believe the series has a lot of potential still but, like many others, I'm not sure on the pricing strategy.  I understand that you probably cannot comment on the pricing, but I wonder if you can comment on my other suggestions here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/63694/447500.aspx

Some of it may be pipe dreams, but I'd be interested in your views.

Thanks.

I liked the idea of these guides...or at least the idea I thought they were focused on addressing. I admit the pricing eventually caused me to back off. However, I still think there would be great value in a series that covers in a summative/descriptive way the history of theological exposition of each book of the Bible. In other words, a review of each book in a chapter by chapter or pericope by pericope summation of the variety of ways the books have been understood and interpreted. On some level, I think this is what these guides are intending, but I also think the target audience is somewhat fictional. Rich busy people might love the idea of these guides, but if you are busy getting rich, you probably aren't interested in these guides...and there lies the paradox.

I understand the concept of producing materials that help customers get the most out of their investment in Logos, while also perhaps encouraging further investment. I don't see that as a problem. I'm just not sure that the way that goal is being attempted here is answering actual needs. It may not be cost effective for Logos to do something that is simultaneously ambitious and limited...or at least not in the way this series has framed itself and its purpose, since it seems to result in the project being at cross purposes.

A survey of interpretation that is "comprehensive in a limited way" is both desirable and tricky to pull off. I could probably spend many paragraphs talking about the challenge, but I'm not sure it is time well spent. Not because it isn't a valuable and worthy pursuit, but because it is a very time intensive pursuit that requires extensive amounts of critical judgment and decision-making. As much as I would like to make a case for what I'm describing, I feel my time would be better spent engaging the resources I already own.

That said, I hope the efforts of those who have devoted their energies to this series find an audience. Making that happen may require some adjustment in the intent of the project.