L5 Loss of all useful commentaries (except 1 or 2)

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Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 18 2012 2:29 AM

Nathan Parker:

Patrick S.:

I also believe, have stated it on the forum and will continue to say it, that Logos:

  1. Needs to start charging for (major) software updates
  2. Needs to realise that there are now, with Logos 5, three components to the Logos platform: software, the Logos application; DataSets with their related analysis functionality; book resources
  3. Needs to NOT tie (limit) DataSets to the high end collections. 

1. Wouldn't that mean we would have to pay for the engine, which would lead to more people griping?

2. There's always been "three components" with Logos since at least Libronix. Back on Libronix it was Libronix, the Addin Modules, and the resources.

3. The data sets can be purchased using the Minimal Crossgrade, and it seemed on the upgrade page that Logos even hinted around at selling them a la carte as well. That's how Logos operated in the past with the Libronix addin modules. I could spend about $20 per module or $150 for the Biblical Languages supplement, some of the addin modules were included in the lower-end collections (like Passage Guide, etc), but if I wanted a higher end collection with the additional resources, Logos threw in the additional premium addin modules with it.

I don't see much of a difference now. The Minimal Crossgrade will still give you the datasets, or if you're planning on getting a high end package anyway, you get them included. Same thing they've done for years.

Hi Nathan


  1. Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps the ones who gripe would gripe even if Logos gave it away?
    I look at it this way, it takes money to develop the 'platform' — software, resource creation, Datasets — and that money has to come from somewhere, obviously us the customers. If Logos spreads the cost around to the various components of the platform then things could work better and perhaps the cost of book resources (commentaries) could go down — who knows. As it stands now in one sense I am (cough) subsidising the 'freeloaders', that is those people who 'demand' to get the software for nothing. I don't say that judgementally, and in one sense I really don't care, but it is still a fact.
  2. OK — then I'll say there are four components now :-) My key point is that the extra Datasets, and the functionality they provide throughout Logos 5, are new and more specifically they require, and will continue to require, a lot of specialist human knowledge and work to build and expand. Things like the old Libronix modules were more primarily a one-time coding effort.
  3. The core Datasets were offered as a 'bare bones' purchase (first link below) but really I don't see anyone buying that package, for us existing Logos 4 users the Minimal Crossgrade (second link) was a no-brainer. I actually went Silver followed by the Minimal Crossgrade (for $6) which got me the Datasets up to Gold level. 




Re: the above if I am continuing as existing user it's OK, but if I am coming in as a new purchaser to get that functionality I would have to go straight to Gold. That may put some people off. That coupled with reported higher cost for things like popular commentary sets is not ideal.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 2041
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 18 2012 6:59 AM

I've looked at what most base-packages contain, not actually considered Diamond just looked at what it contains for ideas. The extremes: Basic and Portfolio are the ones I didn't look at. To make a wise decision I've started by looking at the base-package that contains a desirable commentary set (Believers Church Bible Commentary (24 vols.) (BCBC) since I'm very interested in Anabaptism and it's about the closest match to my beliefs), NA28 and BDAG: Platinum. I agree that You can just as well step down a level and buy BDAG separately. Likewise I don't need every BCBC volume, I can budget $100+ for individual BCBC items and that'll be enough, btw they lowered some of the prices, like I wrote in: Lowered prices on individual purchases on commentary-volumes. Then I've been calculating what it would cost me to buy only the titles I actually want from the package - which has enabled me to drop my wished-for base-package level several steps. Sure it's sort of time consuming to go through the list, but You don't actually need to look up the prices. I had the /upgrade -page loaded in the web-browser and went home. I don't have internet at home, never had since the analog modem times. I was able to see what I needed to see from the page offline. I made up prices for the titles, guessing what they would cost - that way my estimates gives me a picture of what I would be willing to pay for them - if I end up taking just the minimal crossgrade and some items are more expensive I have the choice of not buying them at all.
So, compared to comparing prices when You buy food, it pays better to give several hours of thought to what base-package to upgrade to, or whether to just go with the minimal crossgrade.
My previous considerations are at: Force a theology and Logos 4 OLL. As You can see from these posts: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/59557/424178.aspx#424178 ... "I'll only order [what] I REALLY, REALLY want. What I've decided since I didn't want Platinum anylonger a few days ago, whether or not I upgrade (Silver lacks many titles that I desire) is that I'll order little-by-little" ... and Re: Is this desirable (social pressure)? ... where I also say something about what I don't like with Silver (such as that it comes with English Bibles and interlinears that I've actually been avoiding and won't need in the future either). I'm considering Silver. I have OLL (Original Languages Library) which gives the needed dataset (called LXX, renamed in L5) lacking in Silver. I don't mind the omission of Pillar and some other items, like I wrote in: Increasingly less 5-star resources in base packages? - Logos Bible ....

Todd Phillips:
I think Silver + Minimal Crossgrade + additional commentary sets is the best way to go currently.  Gold does provide a couple necessary resources, like TDNT, but you would have to determine if Gold's resources fit your needs, because you could spend that money on BDAG.
Yeah, DMB pointed out somewhere that the content in base-packages is so old that it feels like going to a second-hand bookshop. I've noticed that too.
Eric Ruhnow:
I don't see enough value in the full price (seems to be too many post-CP titles used as "filler" to boost the number of books - as a longtime user of Logos, I know that several of the L5 package resources were originally on CP,

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Posts 57
Pavel Kostecka | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 18 2012 9:07 AM

Patrick, I was surprised by your #3 answer. Currently, the web offers me Silver for $272 and Minimum Crossgrade for $150. Really, when purchasing Silver at first, the price for MC then diminishes to $6 so that I pay under $280 for all? I am L4 Portfolio owner and rather spend my money for top-notch commentaries than for higher base packages.

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 18 2012 10:03 AM

Yep, I can definitely confirm, my L5 Silver upgrade price was higher than yours because I started from a lower L4 collection.

The price then for the Minimal Crossgrade was $6.81 as the Silver covered the bulk of things. 

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 8
Craig Bagley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 18 2012 10:13 AM

Having $5000 invested in proprietary software will always be a gamble (unless you have $5000 to throw around). For all the amazing benefits of Logos, I cannot give by Logos resources to my future generations (or even my wife, sadly). Since my budget is limited I must make my expenses count. I'm thinking about trimming Logos back to language and Bible tools and going "old school" by buying used paper commentaries online (or pick up at estate sales/garage sales). 

I think Logos would have been better served to cater different packages to different people, not just make the more expensive ones include the language stuff. So, unless I can find a wealthy benefactor, I must say goodbye to more Logos resources. Kinda funny how Logos is made free for my professors while the poor seminarians pay out thousands of dollars. 

I would gladly advertise for Logos if they gave me a killer deal! Alas...

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 18 2012 10:22 AM

Craig Bagley:

For all the amazing benefits of Logos, I cannot give by Logos resources to my future generations (or even my wife, sadly). 

Actually you can transfer your Logos licence, for a minimal fee, to another person at any time you wish, even before you die — if you wanted to, I won't be!

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 8
Craig Bagley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 18 2012 10:27 AM

But...heaven and....Logos will pass away, and you will have to hope some software comes along in the future that can read this proprietary format. It's great, but it won't last like physical copies. It's all a tradeoff. 

Posts 2041
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 18 2012 10:34 AM

Let's keep the hopes up!

Craig Bagley:
Logos will pass away,

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Posts 2760
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 18 2012 11:30 AM

Craig Bagley:
But...heaven and....Logos will pass away

Not according to Matt 24:35.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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