Am I the Only One that Finds Logos 5 Looks Worse on Mac than Logos 4?

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This post has 38 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 7:03 AM

Jack Caviness:
Let's see now. for the last 3 years people complained about closing the wrong window pane because the active pane did not have a distinctive indicator. Now we have a distinctive indicator, and Logos receives complaints that it is there. Hard for me to imagine how a 2mm bar can be so disconcerting. Personally, I find it to be a welcome addition.

I think I qualified my input, but it's far from disconcerting for me regardless.  There have been other things which have been disconcerting about Logos and usually I submit logs when I am in that state! Wink

Posts 274
Mike W | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 7:14 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
For example, Windows 8 no longer has the Start button, which had been introduced in Windows 95.

I know they have an HIG but I also understand that apple doesn't always follow it. I'm glad the decided to add a tabbed interface in addition to  separate window. I hear that the 13' macbook and the airs are currently the best selling apple computers and tabs really helps with a smaller screen.

Over the last year or so a number of people I work with have bought their first Mac (Air and iMac mostly) and everyone comments about how nice they are compared to the windows machines they previously had.  Windows 8 is going to be a very difficult move for most users and the application store is a bad joke (the apps are terrible and you can't even search the store).  It seems Microsoft is trying to leverage their dominance on industry desktops to get into the tablet market and smartphone sales. This may backfire as it makes the desktop much more difficult to use and there are no visual clues for tasks (for example, opening and viewing multiple tabs in internet explorer is not intuitive and it is not even obvious that it is possible).  

I do like the full screen mode in Logos. While the new interface for Accordance is very nice they still don't have full screen mode so Logos is ahead in this regard.  I also like the appearance of L5 on Mac better than on Windows.  Consistency between platforms is good but I have to say I preferred having the menu choices in the menu bar like L4 over the current in window menus.  It seems that L5 is not really Mac-like or Windows LikeWink

Posts 274
Mike W | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 7:28 AM

Jack Caviness:
Do you really prefer that faded washed-out appearance to the more readable?

I'm with you on this one.  The small font in regular typeface (not grayed out) for the menus and focus tabs work really well for some of us who are north of 50 (especially in full screen mode).  The other Mac bible software program has the slightly grayed fonts on gray tabs and I find that a little harder to read and distracting.

Posts 4750
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 8:33 AM

I realize this is a Mac discussion for the most part and I don't use Mac. Don't want to. Have a friend who uses Mac and iPhone and AppleTV or MacTV or whatever it's called. I think it's nifty enough...and don't have any desire to switch or use any of it. But I thought I would chime in since part of the discussion is about appearance. One of the main things I disliked about L4 was the appearance. For me it looked too Mac-ish. Kinda ironic that some Mac folks think it looks too PC-ish, but doesn't change how I feel about L4. Another issue was the fact that the screen looked fuzzy...considerably fuzzy. I had to switch from a white background to a light gray background to mitigate the fuzz. I found it very interesting when I was at Camp Logos that the guy next to me, using Windows, had a super sharp looking screen. Didn't make me feel much better, but I knew it wasn't "only" Logos's fault. Plus, since I still used L3 regularly, I could take comfort in the fact that it was crystal clear on my laptop...and still is.

Anyway, I find that L5 has a slightly different look than L4 had, and for whatever reason the screen is much sharper...thankfully! So that's good. Still, and I guess I'm in the minority here, but I prefer the look of L3 to the look of L5. L3 has a simpler and more bold appearance. L5 is much more subtle...too subtle for my taste. However, it isn't just L3's appearance but design that I prefer. Every single aspect of Notes is better, from the color and design of the icons, to the text input window, to the adjustable size of the note pop-up window. L4, and now L5, fails in all of these areas. It's like going back to hammer and chisel. There are fewer visual mark-up options in L3, but they render better than L5 does.

Anyway, I am happy that L5 is sharper than L4 was. I even like the new white icon, since it represents the death of L4. I may use L5 more than I used L4, but the few things about L3 that Logos easily could but obstinately refuses to import into L5 will keep me using L3 as far as I can tell. I wish I felt otherwise...if certain features were included in L5, I would ignore the subtle appearance thing. But L5...like L4...simply refuses to do what I need it to do.

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 10:15 AM

David Paul:

I don't use Mac. Don't want to. 

Your loss, but be careful what you say about Macs around here, there are some Mac users lurking with pretty strong opinions about the whole Mac/Windows topic. I wouldn't go there. Indifferent

David Paul:

One of the main things I disliked about L4 was the appearance. For me it looked too Mac-ish.

Your joking... right? Logos 4/5 does not look/act like a Mac application. It looks like Logos 4/5 which can be said to be unique. And if we're going to be saying that Logos 4/5 looks Mac like then we Mac users might start demanding that the 'X' be moved to the left of the tab/pane/window whatever.

David Paul:

Another issue was the fact that the screen looked fuzzy...considerably fuzzy.

What part of the screen?

David Paul:

But L5...like L4...simply refuses to do what I need it to do.

That's a shame — works for me, but then I have never used Logos 3 so can't compare.  Anyway don't really have any desire to go backwards.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 4750
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 12:19 PM

Patrick S.:

David Paul:

Another issue was the fact that the screen looked fuzzy...considerably fuzzy.

What part of the screen?

The words...looked like a 9-pin dot matrix.

Patrick S.:

David Paul:

But L5...like L4...simply refuses to do what I need it to do.

That's a shame — works for me, but then I have never used Logos 3 so can't compare. Anyway don't really have any desire to go backwards.

 

LOL...that's the point of my post. Whether you realize it or not...L5 (just like L4 before it) IS GOING BACKWARDS!! 

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 2:25 PM

David Paul:

Patrick S.:

What part of the screen?

The words...looked like a 9-pin dot matrix.

I have a reasonable font, this is what text in books looks like on my iMac

 

David Paul:

Patrick S.:

David Paul:

But L5...like L4...simply refuses to do what I need it to do.

That's a shame — works for me, but then I have never used Logos 3 so can't compare. Anyway don't really have any desire to go backwards.

LOL...that's the point of my post. Whether you realize it or not...L5 (just like L4 before it) IS GOING BACKWARDS!! 

Ah well.... blissful ignorance Cool

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 2:26 PM

Terry Poperszky:

Jack Caviness:

Donovan R. Palmer:
I also think that bringing 'Documents, Guides, Tools and Layouts' onto the main title bar along with their display enhancements is an improvement. In general I give it the thumbs up and I expect there are more refinements which we will see in the future.

This is the part that I first warned would cause complaints from Mac purists Geeked. It only took two days of using the beta for me to see the error of my prediction. Pages is an Apple-produced application. Is that annoying formatting pallet Mac-like? Big Smile

Jack, this is the only part of L5 that I dislike, I break my resources into different windows and I always seem to be in the one that doesn't have the main title bar when I want to access those functions. I don't care about "Mac Like", but this breaks my work flow big time.

Terry, forgive me that I am confused. I do not understand what you do not like. Hmm

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 2:31 PM

Mike W:
 Consistency between platforms is good but I have to say I preferred having the menu choices in the menu bar like L4 over the current in window menus.

That was my first reaction when I saw the beta, but it soon became welcome.

Mike W:
 It seems that L5 is not really Mac-like or Windows LikeWink

Agreed, it is actually Logos-like Geeked

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 2:36 PM

Jack Caviness:

Agreed, it is actually Logos-like Geeked

Mmmmm - are those Geeked  the special Logos glasses you need to wear while using Logos 5 not these Cool

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 1536
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 2:42 PM

Jack Caviness:
Terry, forgive me that I am confused. I do not understand what you do not like. Hmm

 

Moving the "Documents, Guides, Tools and Layouts" off of the menu bar :D

 

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 2:48 PM

Patrick S.:

Jack Caviness:

Agreed, it is actually Logos-like Geeked

Mmmmm - are those Geeked  the special Logos glasses you need to wear while using Logos 5 not these Cool

Actually, that is the smilie that looks most like me—a self-portrait if you will Confused

Posts 274
Mike W | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 4:33 PM

Terry Poperszky:
Moving the "Documents, Guides, Tools and Layouts" off of the menu bar :D

 

I just realized that this change makes a lot of sense with the full screen option, Now the tools are available in fullscreen without needing to go the the sliding main menu.  Surprise

Posts 297
Schezic | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 4:48 PM

Patrick S.:
Mmmmm - are those Geeked  the special Logos glasses you need to wear while using Logos 5 not these Cool
Only if you are unfortunate enough to be saddled with a mac. Indifferent

Posts 113
Samuel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 6:15 PM

Chris Roberts:

Below is a screenshot of Logos 5 on the PC and Mac. Mac image is always first, followed by the PC. First, some comments on the differences:

Moving down to my snippet from the Bible toolbar, some similar issues. Text stands out more on the Mac than on the PC; I prefer the subtle look on the PC. On the Mac it's a bit too jarring. This is especially true for the buttons. Note the buttons for the Bible toolbar area and the Clippings toolbar area. I'm sure Logos chose this approach due to the typical "Mac" way - buttons clearly set apart - but while this approach works great in an app like Apple Pages, I don't like it in Logos. I don't want the buttons to be boxy or stand out. Again, I much prefer the clean, subtle look on the PC. It doesn't help that the Mac version is slightly schizophrenic about this; note again the Bible toolbar: some of the buttons are set apart in boxes ("Display", "Verse", the back/forward button, etc) while others aren't (parallel resources, etc). If it looks a little clunky with the distinct buttons, it looks even moreso with these buttons presented in different ways. 

Again, I know these are likely due to the way things are normally done on the Mac, and may even be hard to avoid in Cocoa, but I think things could be improved to make the Mac version share a bit more of the clean, subtle look of the PC version. Either way, it notes some areas where I prefer the look of the PC version over the Mac version

It's funny how different we all are. I can see how you like the subtle look of the PC version, but for daily use I find it washed out and prefer the contrast on the Mac version. To each his own, I suppose :)

Posts 113
Samuel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 6:23 PM

Jack Caviness:

Let's see now. for the last 3 years people complained about closing the wrong window pane because the active pane did not have a distinctive indicator. Now we have a distinctive indicator, and Logos receives complaints that it is there. Hard for me to imagine how a 2mm bar can be so disconcerting. Personally, I find it to be a welcome addition.

I think some of us complain because it just sticks out so badly. The tabs look like someone just drew boxes - they don't have any shape or feel and the blue bar really sticks out of place. While I prefer the look of L4's tabs, I can see how people could sometimes wonder which one was active. However, there are more elegant ways to do this. I've used plenty of "tabbed" apps on my Mac other than Logos that had attractive tab designs and I never had a problem wondering which one was active Wink

Posts 297
Schezic | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 6:32 PM

Samuel Clough:
I never had a problem wondering which one was active Wink
I wonder if the 10 commandments had a way to show which tablet was ACTIVE. Hmm

Posts 113
Samuel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 6:43 PM

Schezic:

I wonder if the 10 commandments had a way to show which tablet was ACTIVE. Hmm

Well, one thing's for sure. The first UI on that one got completely rewritten...

Posts 297
Schezic | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 25 2012 6:52 PM

Yup ! Because of the intended users' refusal to follow directions. Not a fault of the design. Wink  Possibly the Golden Calf was more pleasing to the eye. More what they were accustomed to. Smile

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