Still no Search with Hebrew Vowel Pointing??

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Posts 433
Vincent Setterholm | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 4:44 PM

We are, of course, aware of this situation. I know Design has specified a UI solution for providing even greater control over what is being matched than what LDLS3 could do (including handling accent/cantillation marks), but I don't have any information on when something like this will be implemented. Someone on the Dev side might know more.

You might be interested in knowing that the Syntax Search interface has a check box in the Text field of the Segment object 'Match marks' that behaves like the marks() operator of Libronix DLS3 - that is, with the mark checked, vowel points are respected. I know this isn't a perfect solution, since 1) it's rather fussy to set up a Syntax search just to search for a single surface form, and 2) if searching for forms with suffixes, one must be particularly careful of where the break between the segments happens (which sometimes is between a consonant and the vowel under it), since one has to specify the form for each segment - there isn't a way to specify the entire grapheme with prefixes and suffixes at one time as the surface forms are split across segments.

Posts 468
BKMitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 29 2012 4:27 AM

Hello Vincent Setterholm,

I was and am still very happy to learn that...

Vincent Setterholm:

Design has specified a UI solution for providing even greater control over what is being matched than what LDLS3 could do (including handling accent/cantillation marks), but I don't have any information on when something like this will be implemented. Someone on the Dev side might know more.

You might be interested in knowing that the Syntax Search interface has a check box in the Text field of the Segment object 'Match marks' that behaves like the marks() operator of Libronix DLS3 - that is, with the mark checked, vowel points are respected.

 Thank you so much for taking the time respond to this thread; this is GREAT news! 

 

 

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

Posts 468
BKMitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 1 2013 4:35 AM

Has there been any update or word on the following from development?:

Vincent Setterholm:
I know Design has specified a UI solution for providing even greater control over what is being matched than what LDLS3 could do (including handling accent/cantillation marks), but I don't have any information on when something like this will be implemented. Someone on the Dev side might know more.

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

Posts 2465
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 1 2013 8:27 AM

Yes

An update would be nice.

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 1 2013 9:02 AM

BKMitchell:

Has there been any update or word on the following from development?:

Vincent Setterholm:
I know Design has specified a UI solution for providing even greater control over what is being matched than what LDLS3 could do (including handling accent/cantillation marks), but I don't have any information on when something like this will be implemented. Someone on the Dev side might know more.

While there is no direct capability to accomplish this, the same effect can be obtained by doing a morphological search and specifying a particular form.  Once you have specified the form, the pointing follows aside from plene or defective writing.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 433
Vincent Setterholm | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 1 2013 10:22 AM

There has been a lot of movement on this recently. I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, but I was told this feature was up and running in a 5.2 demo (there will be a 5.1a release that goes out between now and then).

Posts 468
BKMitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 5:36 AM

Thanks Mr, Setterholm!

Vincent Setterholm:
was told this feature was up and running in a 5.2 demo (there will be a 5.1a release that goes out between now and then).

This is fantastic news!Yes As 5.1a Beta is already in use by many a user that means it won't be too long before 5.2beta is out. Finally, we'll be able to search on accent marks, and vowels in Logos. 

George Somsel:

While there is no direct capability to accomplish this, the same effect can be obtained by doing a morphological search and specifying a particular form.  Once you have specified the form, the pointing follows aside from plene or defective writing.

Thank you Mr. Somsel!Smile

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

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Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 7:17 PM

Wyn Laidig:
I want to search for a manuscript form.  For example, in the morph search below, I type in what to find, and I end up with search results that return every vowel combination instead of the one I type in.  In Logos 3 you could search with the  marks() parameter and it would return exactly the vowel pointing you entered.

Logos 5.2 Beta 1 has search modifiers => http://wiki.logos.com/Search_Matching_Commands

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 468
BKMitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 14 2013 12:20 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Logos 5.2 Beta 1 has search modifiers => http://wiki.logos.com/Search_Matching_Commands

Thanks for the heads up on this one! This is step in the right direction, indeed.

Now, I can't tell form the link if these matching commands will allow one to search on accents(and vowels) with wild cards in place of the consonants. So, for example one could search on vowel patters without specifying any particular word. And, if one could search on accents combinations without regard to the words with they fall on.  So, If I wanted to find every verse were a Zarka accent mark is preceded by a Munach accent mark could it be down with the new matching commands and if so how? 

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

Posts 161
David Roberts | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 5 2015 3:31 PM

MJ. Smith:

can't a morph search give you the same thing as a manuscript search ... or do you want all the homographs?



I just want to say that while obviously the main use of the Hebrew Bible is to understand the Biblical text, there are a LOT of us Hebrew teachers (and even students) around the world who want to be able to search for linguistic features to help better illiterate them to our students.

Features like:

  • Searching for words that have the same vowel combinations, but different consonants. אָשִׁירָה and אָעִירָה (Psalm 108:2–3)
  • Searching for specific consonant-vowel (or vowel-consonant) combinations which could appear anywhere within a given word. e.g. י ֶ
  • Every time he mappiq appears.
  • Every time ḥolam ḥaser appears.
  • Every time a particular letter of the Hebrew alphabet occurs at the beginning, middle or end of a word. e.g. ט or צ.
  • Every time א comes after a consonant, but not a vowel. e.g. מַלְאַךְ (Mal'akh)
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Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 5 2015 4:38 PM

Makes perfect sense to me. There has also been a recent plea for a string search that ignores word boundaries.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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