Are personal books backed up by Logos?

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 27 2012 6:54 PM

I've done a bit of searching on this topic and I'm not quite sure of the answer. Are personal books backed up by Logos?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 27 2012 7:10 PM

Bruce Dunning:

I've done a bit of searching on this topic and I'm not quite sure of the answer. Are personal books backed up by Logos?

No. The only thing that syncs to the Logos servers is metadata such as book cover, author, title, etc. Eventually, Logos would like to sync this info, but it currently isn't available.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 27 2012 8:10 PM

I thought I read somewhere that was the case. Does anyone have a rough estimate when this might be?

In the meantime can someone explain the best way to back up personal books until Logos allows them to sync?

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 27 2012 8:34 PM

Bruce Dunning:
In the meantime can someone explain the best way to back up personal books until Logos allows them to sync?

Backup this folder: C:\Users\{username}\AppData\Local\Logos4\Documents\{random string}\PersonalBooks

Bruce Dunning:
Does anyone have a rough estimate when this might be?

Sorry I can't help with that. Some issues I can see:

  • It could potentially be a lot of data.
  • There might be legal issues if Logos stored personal files that violated copyright laws (which vary from country to country).

The first I am sure is an issue. Don't know about the second.

Logos was at one point committed to letting us share personal books. That would require those books, at least, be uploaded to their servers. They've been pretty quiet about this issue for some time. We can share the original source files now, so that may be enough and they won't bother with uploading personal books at all.

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Alan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 27 2012 8:40 PM

Thanks Mark. 2 questions. 1. Can the backed up books be transferred to a 2nd PC or do they need to be recompiled on that PC? 2. If yes to the first part, can the backed up books be used with the mobile apps by tranferring them to my devices?

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 27 2012 8:43 PM

Bruce Dunning:

In the meantime can someone explain the best way to back up personal books until Logos allows them to sync?

Search the forum for BACKUP - read the horror stories of those that did not backup.

We backup our PB files the same way we backup all the rest of the data on our computers that we want to keep

[External drives, DVD/CD, Cloud]  

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 27 2012 8:47 PM

Thanks Mark, that is helpful. I can imagine that this would be a major project for Logos.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 27 2012 9:30 PM

Let me correct myself as I gave you incorrect info. The file I gave you to copy is the personal books manager file which you do not need to backup AFAIK.

The actual resource files you want to back up are found at: C:\Users\{username}\AppData\Local\Logos4\Data\{random string}\ResourceManager\Resources

If you sort that folder by Type, look for the type LBSPBB, or simply scroll down until you find files that have random alphanumeric strings for titles. Those files need to be backed up. Here's an example:

The problem is not backing up but restoring. These can only be read back into Logos by using the SCAN command and pointing it to the backup file location. Doing this ought to create the proper entries in the personal book manager file, although I haven't tried it.

To transfer your PBs to another computer you need to use the backup file of the PBs you created and execute the SCAN command from that Logos installation pointing to the PB backup file.

I haven't tried to do this, but it should work.

So backup just those files with the funny titles that are of LBSPBB type to backup your Personal Books.

Sorry for the misinformation the first time around.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 27 2012 9:32 PM

Alan:
1. Can the backed up books be transferred to a 2nd PC or do they need to be recompiled on that PC?

See my corrected response above to see how to do this.

Alan:
can the backed up books be used with the mobile apps by transferring them to my devices

No there is no way to do this presently. That is one issue Logos needs to solve. Loading them onto their servers would provide a way for them to allow us to use them on our mobile devices.

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Alan | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 2:59 AM

Thanks Mark. For me it is the one serious limitation of the Logos system. So much of my work is on the road and I would really like to keep all my info with one application. Here's hoping it will get attention in the near future. 

On this, I also sincerely hope that Logos will not go the paid/subscription cloud server route for these files. If they do I then hope they at least allow a reasonable free sized cloud (perhaps in proportion to the resources owned).

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 3:10 AM

I would actually also recommend backing up the Source files for those personal books. If you backed up the compiled books (.lbspbb files) but not the source documents (.docx files) you'd never be able to rebuild the books (e.g., if you needed fix typos). And there's no guarantee that Logos might not change the personal book file format yet again in a future release like they did from Logos 3 to Logos 4, so in that case you'd not ever be able to open those books again. We learned a big lesson in the upgrade to Logos 4. Keep your Personal Book source documents!

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 5:02 AM

Alan - I agree with your desire and hope that we see personal books sync in the not-too-distant future. I too hope that Logos can provide a free option… as far as I know, none of these discussions have been public (and I have no inside knowledge on the subject). It may be unreasonable, however, to expect everything you wish:

  • Sync of personal books very soon
  • no cost to syncing of personal books

I assume this project will be very expensive for Logos, especially if they have to pick up the tab for storing the personal book files. Just think about this: If Logos has Book X (a public domain book) in it's library, it only has to have one copy of the book for the thousands of users who own it (backups aside). As soon as they allow personal books on their servers, they may face a situation with thousands of files for the one book! I am not a programmer, and don't deal with such things, but it seems like a daunting and costly endeavor. I wonder if a solution of dropbox (or similar service) could potentially solve the problem… but then Logos and its customers would be dependent upon another company. If it goes out of business, raises its rates, etc, we would all be up a creek without a paddle.

I guess what I am trying to say: I hope I am wrong, but it seems like this project will take longer than we hope and may require money out of pocket. 

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 6:06 AM

Thanks everyone. This whole discussion points out the current glaring weaknesses of personal books. Hopefully it will be improved soon.In the meantime I'm nervous about adding too many personal books.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 6:14 AM

Bruce Dunning:
In the meantime I'm nervous about adding too many personal books.

I wouldn't be. One solution for syncing the source material (.docx files) is to use dropbox. I have a tutorial thread HERE. Once you have dropbox set up, you can sync the .docx files among your computers and compile resources as needed on each computer. 

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Alan | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 6:25 AM

Alabama24 - now you're talking! A personal dropbox syncing option in which I have to manage downloads makes good sense. Dropbox already has the option to share files. It will also take any possible copyright infringement hassles away from Logos who won't be storing the files. 

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David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 9:01 AM

Mark Smith:
Logos was at one point committed to letting us share personal books. That would require those books, at least, be uploaded to their servers. They've been pretty quiet about this issue for some time. We can share the original source files now, so that may be enough and they won't bother with uploading personal books at all.

It's still on the roadmap, and my team will be doing some of the work to support it. I can't provide an estimate of when the feature will be available.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 1:47 PM

Alan:
A personal dropbox syncing option in which I have to manage downloads makes good sense.

It won't solve the mobile app issue, however. Though you can use Dropbox on mobile apps, you can't build PBs on the mobile Logos apps. But between desktop and laptop, it is fine. You just have to remember to rebuild the files when you get to the second computer. The real solution is a way to synch the actual PBs on all machines and on the mobile apps. Glad Logos still has this on their road map, just hoping it isn't somewhere in the mountains of central Asia!

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 3:49 PM

They could save a lot of server bandwidth and storage if they would decentralize the system a bit...


The opperating assumption I am reading is that they will use a centralized system, IE they have to host and distribute everyone elses files. But if they went with a de-centralized system, they could cause us to host and use our bandwidth to disseminate the books to our own computers...

Let me be more specific here... As it stands, the method everyone assumes they will use is as follows

A. Logos Servers
B. My desktop computer (primary pc)
C. My Laptop
D. My idevices

The centralized system assumes Logos is at the heart of it... So I make a new PBB on B, it gets uploaded to A, and then the next time I use C and D, A sends the file out.

A decentralized system would depend on at least two of the devices being on at the same time, so I make a new PBB on B, turn on my laptop (C) and the logos installations compare book lists and sync. Later I turn my ipad on, while my laptop is on, and the same thing happens. Logos (A) never enters into the equation. IF I pirate books, I have done so using my computer, my bandwidth, and so forth. THUS the responsibility is mine.

No legal hurdles. They are simply syncing my data across my computers.

Ideally of course, it would be set up to prevent duplication of resources. So I don't end up with the same PBB 4 times on every device. Also it might be nice to have a way to deselect books that you want excluded from the syncing...

 

hmm...

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Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 4:10 PM

Mark Smith:

To transfer your PBs to another computer you need to use the backup file of the PBs you created and execute the SCAN command from that Logos installation pointing to the PB backup file.

I haven't tried to do this, but it should work.

It does work, as long as both machines are sync'd up-to-date, since the header info for Personal Books is sync'd by Logos. It does require a restart for Logos on the destination machine. BTW, it also works between L4 and L5 installations.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 28 2012 9:52 PM

Robert M. Warren:
It does work, as long as both machines are sync'd up-to-date, since the header info for Personal Books is sync'd by Logos. It does require a restart for Logos on the destination machine. BTW, it also works between L4 and L5 installations.

Good info and good to know someone has tried it and it works. Yes

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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