Social / community features in Logos 5 and beyond

Page 2 of 10 (192 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last »
This post has 191 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 687
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 5:29 AM

John Duffy:
One of my concerns is that if Logos was a new program just introduced onto the market, it would be expected (if not unthinkable not to) that the developer would provide the explicit option for the user to choose whether or not to participate in data collection or feedback (for statistical analysis, or other purposes e.g. to generate community data).

Really? In my experience most programs do this kind of thing without ever telling you, these days its hard to open a corporate email without them collecting the info of when and where and what you click.

If anyone feels very strongly about this kind of thing, protect yourself at the level of your computer with a decent outgoing firewall. On mac, Little Snitch is excellent and easy to use, giving you fine-grained control over what programs can connect to the internet for, I'm sure someone could recommend an equivalent for PC.

Here's an example of my settings for L5, as you can see, I'm not too fussed about what Logos does with my info or anonymised data:

You're in control of what programs can do on your computer — in many cases you may lose functionality if you block the connections, but that's your prerogative...

For everyone else, thanks for contributing to my reading experience just by the simple act of highlighting your books! I've been loving the community highlights as I've been reading a couple of books; the net effect of many users insight in picking out the key insight on a page, or something that has been particularly well articulated is excellent! Thankyou Big Smile

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 5:45 AM

Yep ... that's what I did last night ... denied internet access to all the Logos4 and Logos5 entries (of course keeping that good boy Libronix). Then pulled my credit card. My account will likely die and so eventually Logos but life is good and I intend to keep it that way.


Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 6:21 AM

Mark Barnes:

Thanks for the full post, Bob (and for the unexpected mention!). I think only two things are required for meet the vast majority of users' concerns:

 

  1. Making sure that having "Send Feedback" set to "None" means that no tracking in done within the desktop app (no search results collected, no highlighting aggregated, and so on). IMO this setting should also mean that a user with this setting should not have their synced documents included in any analysis.
  2. Allow users to turn of the receiving (or at least the displaying) of community data, without turning off the syncing of their own data. This includes Faithlife Community notes, community ratings/tags, popular highlighting, etc.

 

I confess I see no need of either of those things myself (the former because I trust you and want Logos to improve, the latter because I can switch them off individually or ignore them), but I think I understand why others might want them.

I agree fully with Mark on these points including his last. I have no problem with Logos collecting this type of data, but I do understand those who would and was extremely turned off by the solution "turn off using the internet".

 

 

 

 

Posts 3020
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 6:42 AM

Terry Poperszky:

Mark Barnes:

Thanks for the full post, Bob (and for the unexpected mention!). I think only two things are required for meet the vast majority of users' concerns:

 

  1. Making sure that having "Send Feedback" set to "None" means that no tracking in done within the desktop app (no search results collected, no highlighting aggregated, and so on). IMO this setting should also mean that a user with this setting should not have their synced documents included in any analysis.
  2. Allow users to turn of the receiving (or at least the displaying) of community data, without turning off the syncing of their own data. This includes Faithlife Community notes, community ratings/tags, popular highlighting, etc.

 

I confess I see no need of either of those things myself (the former because I trust you and want Logos to improve, the latter because I can switch them off individually or ignore them), but I think I understand why others might want them.

I agree fully with Mark on these points including his last. I have no problem with Logos collecting this type of data, but I do understand those who would and was extremely turned off by the solution "turn off using the internet".

 

 

I agree this would be a fair resolution.  And once again, I myself do not care about my data being analyzed. 

 

Teacher, Ministry Leader, Student, Author, Husband

How to upload logs

Visit My Site: Reformed Truths

Posts 644
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 6:52 AM

I for one hope that as suggested by Mark that send feedback or equivalent to off really means off. While I understand and respect your vision Bob,the major issue here is that many long term users have invested thousands in resources and due to the deprecation of older engines that did not have these concerns, it seems Logos is forcing users to agree to your data mining desires or lose use. Even if we turn internet off, what happens when we connect to run updates? Doesn't it still sync and data mine? So for someone who truly wants no part of this, they really do lose functionally many features and updates and if you force internet connection in the future all the more.

Many users invested for the purpose of studying the Word of God, not to be a part of a data mining community resource software package. As for measuring things like operating systems can't that be measured via updates? For a better understanding of which resources people like and don't, popular highlights and usage stats a sufficient data sample could be generated from those who are into the community aspect without forcing everyone to take part in the data collection.

For the record there are some comparisons that can be made with Google and search engines, etc, however we have not bought a product from them. Customers have PAID for their products and should not be forced into data collection in regard to Logos Bible Software. From today and going forward at no time should your customers be held hostage in regard to full functionality, if they desire to not take part. So a simple opt out from data collection check box would eliminate the whole debate and make all customers those for and those against satisfied.

Posts 450
Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 6:55 AM

I'm really wondering if this is not a generational issue. I'm conservative when it comes to my information being shared or published and yet I do not have any issue at all with Logos using my data within the cloud. I understand both sides of the argument very well, I'm just wondering if this is more of a perception issue than an understanding of how this type of data is shared/used.

Posts 3020
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 7:08 AM

Alexander:

I'm really wondering if this is not a generational issue. I'm conservative when it comes to my information being shared or published and yet I do not have any issue at all with Logos using my data within the cloud. I understand both sides of the argument very well, I'm just wondering if this is more of a perception issue than an understanding of how this type of data is shared/used.

Most likely the case.

Teacher, Ministry Leader, Student, Author, Husband

How to upload logs

Visit My Site: Reformed Truths

Posts 113
Samuel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 7:54 AM

Alexander:

I'm really wondering if this is not a generational issue. I'm conservative when it comes to my information being shared or published and yet I do not have any issue at all with Logos using my data within the cloud. I understand both sides of the argument very well, I'm just wondering if this is more of a perception issue than an understanding of how this type of data is shared/used.

I think that's over simplification. Yes, younger users tends to have less privacy concerns, but that's because they've grown up in a world of eroding privacy. They don't know a world where it's any other way. They have been sold the benefits of it without understanding the negatives.

While there are advantages to data collection, it also has some real downsides. It's reasonable, since many of us are primarily paying to own a collection of resources on our desktop, for Logos to provide a way to opt out of such deep data collection. All of us aren't convinced the benefits of being tracked are worth it. It's fine if people thing differently. If Logos goes all in on this without an opt out, I know it would force me to serious consider moving to alternative Bible software. Just the conversation makes me think twice about investing significantly in more resources until it's clear what the direction of all this will be. Not trying to threaten anything, just express the value of a true desktop application that lets me opt out of things that I don't want to participate in.

Posts 10552
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 8:17 AM

Samuel Clough:

Alexander:

I'm really wondering if this is not a generational issue. I'm conservative when it comes to my information being shared or published and yet I do not have any issue at all with Logos using my data within the cloud. I understand both sides of the argument very well, I'm just wondering if this is more of a perception issue than an understanding of how this type of data is shared/used.

I think that's over simplification. Yes, younger users tends to have less privacy concerns, but that's because they've grown up in a world of eroding privacy. They don't know a world where it's any other way. They have been sold the benefits of it without understanding the negatives.

Alexander, What generation do you expect to be bothered? I agree with Samuel that this is an over simplification. Don't know the ages of those with various privacy phobias, but I personally find their arguments to be nonsense less than persuasive. 

I am three score and fifteen, and I know many Logos forum members who are near my age who have expressed no objections to Logos' data mining in the way Bob has just described.

Samuel Clough:
If Logos goes all in on this without an opt out, I know it would force me to serious consider moving to alternative Bible software. Just the conversation makes me think twice about investing significantly in more resources until it's clear what the direction of all this will be. Not trying to threaten anything, just express the value of a true desktop application that lets me opt out of things that I don't want to participate in.

I take it, then, that you do not use an Microsoft products.

When I was young—many years ago—the older folk had a saying that is appropriate to you and others who are threatening to take your business aways from Logos over these issues—The called it cutting off your nose to spite you face or throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Posts 190
EmileB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 8:24 AM

I happen to live and work in a country that poses some unique Internet issues. First, in general, where I happen to be located at the moment, Internet access is TERRIBLE... and I think a lot more people than Bob realizes may be in that situation. I just find it hard to believe that nearly everyone has 24/7 high speed Internet access, but maybe that is indeed the case.

The cost of Internet access is also a factor for many of us. Many of us pay by the megabyte, and at a high rate. I don't allow the cost to hinder me too much, but I can say that the quality of the Internet here definitely puts some constraints on my full appreciation/use of Logos. I often am forced to work offline... and it really does concern me that eventually I might not be able to access the functionality of future versions of Logos without a good and continual Internet access being required.

As long as I will be able to use the current incarnation of the engine (even if I can't access the latest slick database), to access my existing library/investment, I'm okay with that I guess. Other people have different interests, and I have no right to hold Logos users back from new features they would find useful (not to be a stick in the mud or a Neanderthal, but as Bob said elsewhere, Logos can already slice and dice about as thoroughly as it can be done. I would think for most users, there comes a point of diminishing returns.... where we are way OVER analyzing the text in a way that was not intended by the original authors, and that it comes ultimately to being counterproductive. Maybe I didn't say that very well... but it just seems like eventually, we have more than enough tools to analyze the text ad nauseum.... I know, I know... that's probably heresy on these forums.... ;-) )

But all of that being said... we really need to have the ability to keep using the software offline... at least to access our existing resources. We have invested a LOT (many of us), and its scary to think that the lights could go out so to speak... not that Logos will fold... but that it COULD become unusable...

A greater issue here where I am is the issue of privacy. ALL internet use is monitored. Visiting certain websites will get you jailed. You have to present your passport at any Internet cafe, which tracks every site you visit and is legally forced to report the same to the KGB (yes, still VERY alive and well here) on a monthly basis. One must be careful what one writes... anything that the president can even consider to be negative or defamatory or impinging upon his reputation or respect will generate a substantial fine and some significant jail time. The best hackers in the world are from here (along with the origin of most viruses), and the school from the former days of the Soviet Union where this was taught still exists, is promoted, and thrives. It is a very constant concern that keystroke/keyboard trackers are on your machine here. And faith-based sites are not considered "innocuous" here.

So I don't get real wanked out about Logos collecting my data. Its not Logos I'm worried about, nefariously snickering over my Bible study notes in some broom closet or analyzing how to capitalize upon and manipulate the concerns on my prayer list for gobs of company profit. Bob and Dan aren't the ones who might just end up knocking on my door in the wee hours of the night... (at least, I hope not! ;-) ) (But that being said, Bob, if you guys are reading this, please feel free to call ahead... you'd be most welcome! I'll keep the light on for you! I wouldn't want you standing in the dark stairwells here in the middle of the night. It's not safe.)

But all of this does mean that I do try to limit what I use the Internet for, and how often I connect. And I just don't do my message/lesson notes in Logos, or my prayer list, or other such sensitive kinds of stuff, 'cse I just don't know in whose hands they might end up... and that has zip to do with Logos. That would be very, very foolish of me.

So again... continued functionality of my existing resources offline is REALLY REALLY important to me.

Finally, though... and if you want to attribute it to a generational thing, fine... but I just don't want other people's observations/highlights/comments, two cents or whatever showing up on my screen unless I want it to. Yes, some of that has to do with some generational issues, study styles, comfort with the community concept, etc. But FOR ME... I don't like it (any more than when I had used books that someone else had highlighted before I owned it), because highlighting (for example) draws my attention to what SOMEONE ELSE thinks is important or valuable... and that serves as a distraction to me from picking up what the original author wanted me to grasp, or the general flow of his prose, or what GOD might want me to pick up from the text in question. I figure if the original author wanted to emphasize something, he could have used bold print or italics.

I appreciate that many of you folks like that. God bless you. But please, allow the rest of us to choose whether we want your observations/highlights/comments, two cents or whatever on our screens. I didn't pay for your wisdom, as profound as it might be :-)

So as far as what Bob is talking about... I don't really have a problem with it for those who want it. But do please allow us the fine controls for opting out. There are practical reasons for some of us, philosophical reasons for some of us, ethical concerns for others... but beyond that...

... a gentleman always asks.

It is a token of respect... a sign of a cultured and well-mannered man, in a world that seems to have forgotten what that means.

Why not err on the side of being considerate? You can thereby avoid giving unnecessary offense, for what seems to be very little effort.

After all, it's just two little words:

"May I?"

Best wishes, as always, Bob!! Love you guys!!!

Posts 321
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 8:36 AM

MJ. Smith:

Rene Atchley:
I see no such offer of compensation from Logos for years worth of data...not even a discount.

Microsoft never pays me for crash reports ... but I don't mind helping them identify the crashes so that I get fewer of them. In that past few years, I've finally lost the ability to crash MSWord at will.

Since I use WordPerfect crashing Word isn't a problem for me.

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 8:42 AM

I see, well I would like to be in-between the denominations Anabaptists and RCC, and be able to say also that I'm critical.

Bob Pritchett:
Our hope is that we get enough data -- using voluntarily provided info like "denomination", and sales data like "what books you specifically purchased" -- that we could give you a star rating from "users like you", and weight the community tags in the same way. So a commentary set labeled 5 stars and tagged "reliable" by users of one denomination, say, would be reported that way to others of that denomination who bought similar resources, but might be rated "3 stars" and tagged "conservative" to users of another denomination who had purchased different resources. (The rating would probably differ, but you'd probably see all the tags -- they'd just be different sizes for different users.)


When it comes to citing books, You can see from: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/18568/424963.aspx#424963 that I would really like the Jerusalem Bible from the second half of the '60ies, the 2004 3rd edition British English Good News Translation and the Biblia Sacra iuxta vulgatum versionem. 5th Ed. Other than that I'm pretty content with what Bibles are offered in Logos - it's just that I would rather see that some English Bible would be dropped from the base-packages, for example either The Message (Complete OT/NT), The New Century Version or the Holman Christian Standard Bible (Holman CSB).

I'm looking forward to the new specialized base-packages that are perhaps comming at some point (like You said in http://community.logos.com/forums/p/60280/430475.aspx#430475). I wonder if You could make one for Anabaptists, and/or one with especially much critical scholarship?

Aply!
trulyergonomic.com 5,850own
12G A9-9420 V8.3 Acc 11
d:'13Q3 12G

Posts 321
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 8:45 AM

Dominick Sela:

Rene Atchley:
I see no such offer of compensation from Logos for years worth of data...not even a discount.

I hope you don't use ANY search engine on the Internet - they grab a lot more data about what you are doing than Logos does! Or I hope you don't use any Microsoft products....or Adobe....or browser...or any of a number of other "non community" products. People think only Facebook, Twitter, Flickr and the like are grabbing data, but that's grossly inaccurate. Oh and don't forget your TV viewing preferences, unless you only do over the air (and they collect data too, just not as much), DirecTV, Comcast, and all the other satellite/cable providers are collecting huge amounts of preference/usage data.

The only way to avoid this, as Bob says, is turn off the Internet. It's a connected world now.

Honestly to argue that because everyone else does it justifies Logos doing it (especially as a "christian" company) seems rather a weak argument to me.  The discussion that Mr. Pritchard has opened is not about all the tangential debates regarding every drop of personal information being taken from me on a daily basis.  It is about a product that appears increasingly to be heavy handed in its demands that I conform to Mr. Pritchard's vision of proper computer use at increasing high prices with a product that data mines every stroke (apparently) that is done in the program.  While it is admirable that there is a turn off switch (if that is what it is) in the product can we be assure that a) it works and b) it wont be eliminated in a future release and c) that I can trust a large corporation to properly handle private use of their product.  Surely what the books that are bought through Logos would never get back to denominational leaders so that a concern about "un-godly" thoughts might be sneaking into their pastors...that would never happen... you know just trust Logos and their corporate partners.

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 9:06 AM

Jon:

You're in control of what programs can do on your computer — in many cases you may lose functionality if you block the connections, but that's your prerogative...

For everyone else, thanks for contributing to my reading experience just by the simple act of highlighting your books! I've been loving the community highlights as I've been reading a couple of books; the net effect of many users insight in picking out the key insight on a page, or something that has been particularly well articulated is excellent! Thankyou Big Smile

Peace, Jon!             What a very pleasant post!         Indeed!              It is I who should thank you!          *smile*           Of course I agree with you!  Big Smile

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 190
EmileB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 9:06 AM

Jon,

I checked out the site for the software you recommended. Looks promising. To be honest, though, I'm like most here probably in that I'm not tremendously computer savy in this area... and I need to be. The screen shot is helpful... but how difficult is this for a knucklehead user like myself? I start seeing port numbers and such and my eyes start to glaze over. I'm afraid of blocking something that must not be blocked, and allowing something that really SHOULD be blocked. Any comments re: how easy it may be to learn this software?

Posts 450
Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 9:34 AM

Samuel Clough:

Alexander:

I'm really wondering if this is not a generational issue. I'm conservative when it comes to my information being shared or published and yet I do not have any issue at all with Logos using my data within the cloud. I understand both sides of the argument very well, I'm just wondering if this is more of a perception issue than an understanding of how this type of data is shared/used.

I think that's over simplification. Yes, younger users tends to have less privacy concerns, but that's because they've grown up in a world of eroding privacy. They don't know a world where it's any other way. They have been sold the benefits of it without understanding the negatives.

While there are advantages to data collection, it also has some real downsides. It's reasonable, since many of us are primarily paying to own a collection of resources on our desktop, for Logos to provide a way to opt out of such deep data collection. All of us aren't convinced the benefits of being tracked are worth it. It's fine if people thing differently. If Logos goes all in on this without an opt out, I know it would force me to serious consider moving to alternative Bible software. Just the conversation makes me think twice about investing significantly in more resources until it's clear what the direction of all this will be. Not trying to threaten anything, just express the value of a true desktop application that lets me opt out of things that I don't want to participate in.

Simplification? Yes. Overly so? I don't think so. I am younger but, as my post stated, am conservative about my private information and I understand both the pro's and con's of both. In broad brush strokes, I have found that those who are born post techno boom have less of a concern about the issue than others. There are some in both groups that don't line up perfectly but I would suggest the generalization holds true for most folks. As others have pointed out, if you are really concerned with data mining you are going to either have to make Fort Knox your network provider or simply drop off the net. Again, my 2c's.

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 9:45 AM

Sometimes I think that folks are too paranoid about there online privacy.

I mean it's not like people lose their jobs, or marriages by what they post online. And it's not like some Christians are hunted down and imprisoned or killed for what the authorities have discovered on the internet...

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 1690
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 9:49 AM

Thank you for all the thoughtful feedback. Some further thoughts:

We don't plan to take away the ability to read books offline without the Internet, and we haven't disabled Logos 3 or 4 or your ability to use older versions of the software. Some future new features, though, will need the web -- the data will be there, and won't fit locally. 

If you have information / data / comments that would cause enormous damage if disclosed, or risk your freedom in an oppressive country, do not put it on a computer. I don't mean don't put it in Logos, I mean don't put it in digital form, on any device, anywhere. There's no adequate digital protection, and you should plan for everything you type to be disclosed. Someday people will, if only for idle entertainment purposes, write software that you can plug a thrown-away laptop or hard drive into and upload it all to a massive search engine in the cloud. This isn't a "Logos-specific" issue. This is common sense. And your biggest risk isn't even our server being hacked -- it's a trojan, a virus, a key-logger, losing your smart phone, walking away from your logged-in computer someone else has physical access to, etc.

The "I have confidential stuff in my notes" theme is a red herring. If it's that secret, you shouldn't type it into your computer -- in any application. Just ask the now-former director of the CIA -- someone who ought to know how to keep a secret. You don't know enough / can't do enough to keep a digital secret.

Again, I'm not saying this as an excuse for why you shouldn't care about Logos' cloud-based backup, statistical data mining, etc. This is just general good advice.

With that said, we are listening and will improve our controls here. But I do think we're making a mountain out of a mole hill; if you use a credit card, shop in a store with surveillance cameras, have a driver's license and car with a license plate, have a bank account, use the Internet, or visit any licensed healthcare professional, you are being tracked far more, about far more personal things than anything Logos is doing. This isn't an excuse that we shouldn't care about your concerns -- we should -- but I feel like threats to stop doing business with us over this are a little unreasonable. We're at least talking to you about it! Your grocery store didn't ask you before data mining transactions (even cash transactions!) to learn that people who buy peanut butter also buy jelly and bread, and you probably didn't care.

In other words, unless you used a multi-tier anonymizing VPN system to post your objections here, (or, better yet, walked up to me on the street wearing dark glasses and a hat without carrying a cell phone and whispered them in my ear), you've got bigger privacy issues to worry about than Logos... :-)

One more future feature that touches on this:

We hope to offer some "all you can eat" pricing models in the future. Much like Netflix, where for $9 you can watch an unlimited number of videos each month from a large pool of content, we'd like to offer a subset of our books in an "all you can read" subscription. To pay royalties to the copyright holders, though, we need to know how much each resource is used. (Copyright holders want to know that if their content is the most used, they get the most royalties. Books in the pool that don't get read in a month don't get royalties that month.) We need some stats collection in order to deliver this feature, and you couldn't participate in this without your stats being recorded.

P.S. Please don't walk up and whisper at me on the street. It would freak me out... :-)

 

Posts 687
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 9:53 AM

EmileB:
how difficult is this for a knucklehead user like myself?

Hi Emile, it is not as complicated as it looks from that screenshot which is the main configuration window. In practice, how it works is that when a program on your computer tries to make a connection to the internet it pops up an alert like this:

It sounds like it would be very useful in your context, with your security concerns. At first when you install it you'll get lots of alerts popping up as you use all your normal programs and discover that they frequently connect online for all sorts of reasons. After that initial stage (of setting Forever Allow or Deny — it takes this input and generates the rules you see on the screen shot in my previous post) it will only popup for something that's new and doesn't match any existing rules. If something pops up thats unexpected it could well be some kind of malware/trojan/logger and you can block it from phoning home.

Edit: Bob, your example of normal shops data mining reminded me of this article (better not go to a department store if you're worried about privacy) :) : http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/
Posts 1355
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 3 2012 10:05 AM

EmileB:

But please, allow the rest of us to choose whether we want your observations/highlights/comments, two cents or whatever on our screens. I didn't pay for your wisdom, as profound as it might be :-)

So as far as what Bob is talking about... I don't really have a problem with it for those who want it. But do please allow us the fine controls for opting out. There are practical reasons for some of us, philosophical reasons for some of us, ethical concerns for others... but beyond that...

... a gentleman always asks.

It is a token of respect... a sign of a cultured and well-mannered man, in a world that seems to have forgotten what that means.

Why not err on the side of being considerate? You can thereby avoid giving unnecessary offense, for what seems to be very little effort.

After all, it's just two little words:

"May I?"

Best wishes, as always, Bob!! Love you guys!!!

Emile,

Thanks for reminding us of the basics of civilization, as well as alerting us to the perils many Logos users around the world face.

I don't question the motives of Logos. I think that Logos wants to produce the best product and study system for its customers. I think it is too easy to get bogged down in all the technical configurations and forget the big picture at times.

Logos does need to remember who's the boss. It is ultimately the customers' choice. Logos needs to remember its servant character. I think that Bob's fairly frequent posts and inquiries show that he does value the input of his customers.

Page 2 of 10 (192 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last » | RSS