Another Option for Keeping Spam Down.

Step 1. Institute a captcha for all new members to prevent robots from making spam (most likely the new members that have only 4 posts, all four of them advertising some other site or produce are in this category).

Step 2. Track our IP's - when it changes, challenge us with a Captcha. This means most of us will have to solve a captcha once a week or so (some as often as 1x in 24 hours). If you wanted to be really sophisticated, track our IPs by region - if I always log in from NC and Florida (and I do, as I live between both states), and suddenly, my account is logged in from korea, you know that something is up and it's captcha time. This would help some of the existing members who seem to have had their accounts compromised (only a few...)

Assuming you wrote your own forum software, the originators of Captcha (Completely Automated Public Turing Test To Tell Computers and Humans Apart) can - along with their free software - be found at captcha.net .

Thank you for your time, and sorry for going off topic.

Ken

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Comments

David Ames

I think it is on topic - There is one site that I drop in on every day or so that could use a captcha test for all posts. The spammers on that site have 90,000 posts each while the members are all under 150 or so.

Armin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438899#Comment_438899

Here are some more suggestions:

1) With a purchase, somebody gets an approved Logos Forum account and can immediately post there.

2) Without a purchase, the first 5 posts will not be posted immediately but have to be approved by a moderator.

Armin

Michael Kinch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438940#Comment_438940

Here are some more suggestions:

1) With a purchase, somebody gets an approved Logos Forum account and can immediately post there.

2) Without a purchase, the first 5 posts will not be posted immediately but have to be approved by a moderator.

Armin

I agree Armin. It is not likely that very many sincere individuals would be asking questions about Logos if they have not purchased any products. In that case they should call customer support who can answer their questions and suggest the products that meet their needs.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438940#Comment_438940

Here are some more suggestions:

1) With a purchase, somebody gets an approved Logos Forum account and can immediately post there.

2) Without a purchase, the first 5 posts will not be posted immediately but have to be approved by a moderator.

Armin

I'm not sure about "the first 5 posts", but otherwise this seems like a good suggestion. The poster must first (1 or 2 posts) be authenticated as one who will address the concerns of the forum before being allowed to post freely.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438985#Comment_438985

I am in favour of doing something like Amin is suggesting. Spam is always annoying but there seems to be even more of it lately.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438988#Comment_438988

Armin's idea is a good one.

But consider with me a moment another angle.

Imagine you are a recent purchaser of the software, and you are having a glitch. You've never posted to the forum before.

You have a sermon coming up on sunday, or a paper, or a test, or something where the functionality of Logos is hugely beneficial. Your very first post (or up to the first 5 as Armin suggested) would have to be moderated. Our moderators are busy - clearly, and understandably. If their reaction time to spam posts is ~6 hours (it is, and sometimes longer) then we can expect their moderation times on the new post to be comparable. I have no doubt that this would increase the work load of the moderators as well.

Which is why I suggest the captcha device for new members (and old ones under certain circumstances). It accomplishes the same thing (with the odd miss do to increasingly sophisticated attacks) and faster, with no drain on the mods time.

Another solution would be volunteer moderators... Perhaps giving the VIP's the ability to hit Delete on a thread. or a post within a thread.

In short - no extra work for the mods once its set up. Less to no spam for us, and new members can still expect the same speed of answer.

ALSO Captcha is free to use on a site. Who doesn't like free?

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438960#Comment_438960

It is not likely that very many sincere individuals would be asking questions about Logos if they have not purchased any products.

You never investigate things you contemplate spending hundreds of dollars on?

People who are thinking about buying Logos usually seem to turn up on weekends, and sometimes hours before a discount ends. Turning them away goes against the very purpose of these forums, and would likely lose Logos sales.

E-mail verification is better than captchas.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439012#Comment_439012

Email verification can still be done by a "bot".

Captchas are a lot more complicated for a computer to figure out. They depend upon our own pattern recognition abilities, something that has not fully translated into computers.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439016#Comment_439016

Email verification can still be done by a "bot".

Email verification by a "bot" still needs a valid email address and server connection. Also would allow Logos to add email for Logos product marketing.

Captchas are a lot more complicated for a computer to figure out. They depend upon our own pattern recognition abilities, something that has not fully translated into computers.

Found a reCAPTCHA project that is improving Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software => https://www.google.com/recaptcha/learnmore As OCR software improves, CAPTCHA becomes less effective for distinguishing between human and computer.

From a Logos forum perspective, CAPTCHA can become an irritant for a new forum user to post a question since CAPTCHA's are becoming more difficult for human readability.

Conversely, the spam advertising irritant is thread(s) posting about topics not related to Logos Bible Software.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439010#Comment_439010

Our moderators are busy - clearly, and understandably. If their reaction time to spam posts is ~6 hours (it is, and sometimes longer) then we can expect their moderation times on the new post to be comparable.

Our "moderators" are very busy, but not busy "moderating." I would be surprised to find more than 6 hours a day of "moderating." I do not believe SPAM irritates Logos half as much as it irritates forum users.

I have no doubt that this would increase the work load of the moderators as well.

I have no doubt either. Presently there is no work "load" because the problem is not being addressed aggressively.

Another solution would be volunteer moderators... Perhaps giving the VIP's the ability to hit Delete on a thread. or a post within a thread.

This is perhaps the only effective solution aside from hiring some full-time dedicated moderators.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439040#Comment_439040

Another solution would be volunteer moderators... Perhaps giving the VIP's the ability to hit Delete on a thread. or a post within a thread.

This is perhaps the only effective solution aside from hiring some full-time dedicated moderators.

This seems like a very good suggestion to me.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439045#Comment_439045

Another solution would be volunteer moderators... Perhaps giving the VIP's the ability to hit Delete on a thread. or a post within a thread.

This is perhaps the only effective solution aside from hiring some full-time dedicated moderators.

This seems like a very good suggestion to me.

Expanding More drop down list for MVP's so have option to require Logos review of a reply has been suggested, but has not been done by Logos.

[:$] MVP's are human and have made mistake(s) reporting thread(s) as abuse, which Logos has left available for public reading so the Logos threshold for hiding thread(s) is a bit different than Logos user community.

Keep Smiling [:)]

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439010#Comment_439010

Which is why I suggest the captcha device for new members

The only thing which Captcha insures is that there is a human behind the keyboard. It would do nothing to stop spam.

Jack Caviness

Institute a captcha for all new members to prevent robots from making spam

One problem with this suggestion: Most of the current SPAM posts do not appear to come from robots, but from an actual person.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439040#Comment_439040

Another solution would be volunteer moderators... Perhaps giving the VIP's the ability to hit Delete on a thread. or a post within a thread.

This is perhaps the only effective solution aside from hiring some full-time dedicated moderators.

I do not like this idea.

The best idea so far is to have a person validated his or her email.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439067#Comment_439067

One problem with this suggestion: Most of the current SPAM posts do not appear to come from robots, but from an actual person.

I have not seen one post that would lead me to believe it came from a real person.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439082#Comment_439082

One problem with this suggestion: Most of the current SPAM posts do not appear to come from robots, but from an actual person.
I have not seen one post that would lead me to believe it came from a real person.

I've seen several within the last week. Automated bots could be programmed to work as slow as human beings, and could probably be made to edit their posts (spammers here regularly do so to get links in) and to "learn" over the course of several trials how to post links into a forum that should preclude posting them in the firstplace (some html syntax seems to work, some not). But bot scripts wouldn't answer in a discussion that arose from the fact that Andy really is fast reporting them. And automated scripts wouldn't try to insult one poster who reported them with their next post, using information about that forum regular's place of home. That's human behaviour. Thus, captchas wouldn't help.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439129#Comment_439129

I've seen several within the last week. Automated bots could be programmed to work as slow as human beings, and could probably be made to edit their posts (spammers here regularly do so to get links in) and to "learn" over the course of several trials how to post links into a forum that should preclude posting them in the firstplace (some html syntax seems to work, some not). But bot scripts wouldn't answer in a discussion that arose from the fact that Andy really is fast reporting them. And automated scripts wouldn't try to insult one poster who reported them with their next post, using information about that forum regular's place of home. That's human behaviour. Thus, captchas wouldn't help.

I have not seen this happening. thanks for the info.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439146#Comment_439146

I've seen several within the last week. Automated bots could be programmed to work as slow as human beings, and could probably be made to edit their posts (spammers here regularly do so to get links in) and to "learn" over the course of several trials how to post links into a forum that should preclude posting them in the firstplace (some html syntax seems to work, some not). But bot scripts wouldn't answer in a discussion that arose from the fact that Andy really is fast reporting them. And automated scripts wouldn't try to insult one poster who reported them with their next post, using information about that forum regular's place of home. That's human behaviour. Thus, captchas wouldn't help.
I have not seen this happening. thanks for the info.

Yes, some of the spammer's posts border on intimidation and thuggery. They want us to know they can launch retribution for our protests. Bots don't express animosity.

Armin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439010#Comment_439010

But consider with me a moment another angle.

Imagine you are a recent purchaser of the software, and you are having a glitch. You've never posted to the forum before.

You have a sermon coming up on sunday, or a paper, or a test, or something where the functionality of Logos is hugely beneficial. Your very first post (or up to the first 5 as Armin suggested) would have to be moderated. Our moderators are busy - clearly, and understandably. If their reaction time to spam posts is ~6 hours (it is, and sometimes longer) then we can expect their moderation times on the new post to be comparable. I have no doubt that this would increase the work load of the moderators as well.

This is the reason why a purchaser gets an approved Forum account right away.

Armin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439129#Comment_439129

One problem with this suggestion: Most of the current SPAM posts do not appear to come from robots, but from an actual person.
I have not seen one post that would lead me to believe it came from a real person.

I've seen several within the last week. Automated bots could be programmed to work as slow as human beings, and could probably be made to edit their posts (spammers here regularly do so to get links in) and to "learn" over the course of several trials how to post links into a forum that should preclude posting them in the firstplace (some html syntax seems to work, some not). But bot scripts wouldn't answer in a discussion that arose from the fact that Andy really is fast reporting them. And automated scripts wouldn't try to insult one poster who reported them with their next post, using information about that forum regular's place of home. That's human behaviour. Thus, captchas wouldn't help.

I did see a few spam posts that made be believe that there really was a human person behind. But of course, it is impossible to know.

Armin

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439263#Comment_439263

[quote]I've seen several within the last week. Automated bots could be
programmed to work as slow as human beings, and could probably be made
to edit their posts (spammers here regularly do so to get links in) and
to "learn" over the course of several trials how to post links into a
forum that should preclude posting them in the firstplace (some html
syntax seems to work, some not). But bot scripts wouldn't answer in a
discussion that arose from the fact that Andy really is fast reporting
them. And automated scripts wouldn't try to insult one poster who
reported them with their next post, using information about that forum
regular's place of home. That's human behaviour. Thus, captchas wouldn't
help.

I wasn't aware of that - however that doesn't mean it isn't initially bots, or a bot/human hybrid.

So much SEO software out there, I would suspect at least one of those software packages is at fault. One of the black hat packages.

The cyborg theory would work like this: Bot posts, checks its posting finds the links not working, sends an error report, login credentials and url to the human at the helm. The human clicks the link, inputs the credentials (if necessary, likely there are cookies involved that eliminate the necessity of this step, but it depends on their timeout values and I digress) makes three clumsy attempts to fix the link - can't - searches the forum for help and in the process finds protest threads: trolling ensues.

The best bandaid is volunteer moderators (I suggested VIP's as the pool from which to draw, because they've been here the longest, and already seem to help control the flow of conversation, PLUS they are always online, Always... I've never seen a question go unanswered because a vip was offline - of course my frame of reference is only 4 or 5 months). The best cure is going to be some combination of captcha (we are still on the cyborgs radar, they will likely come back) and the first few posts being held in moderation. I can make a new email account in five minutes. Captcha (a web standard at other forum sites, including one I've run, and others I've moderated at) at account creation slows the process down. I suspect having to manually make a new account every time, instead of using a script, would in time resolve the problem.

Most sites do not do the first few posts are moderated system because of the impact on newbies.

If this was clearly communicated (*chuckle*) several times during the account creation process, and after posting if they are re-directed to a page that says their post is awaiting moderation, AND if the VIP's, or a mod that spent their whole day on the forums had the ability to allow posts to go through, then I think that system would be alright.

It would turn me away, if my first post was moderated and it took half a day to hear the answer. I would have done some googling, and found a forum where I can ask un-moderated questions (stilltruth or something like that would have more than likely came up).

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439356#Comment_439356

Even if you wanted to set up some sort of "in-kind" program where the volunteer moderators committed to a certain number of hours in a month, and at the end of the month, they get xx$$ worth of book credits. A britt, an aussie, and a north American ought to suffice on a trial basis... If each committed to two hours a day, and was offered either a credit towards new books, or else the opportunity to buy one item at cost (excluding base packages for the moment, since those seem to be the cash cow) under a certain price range... Everyone here is buying books any way...

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439362#Comment_439362

Or Even a book/product of the month for the future moderators...

Who wouldn't jump on that?

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439363#Comment_439363

How do you keep Spam down? Well, there's always Pepto-Bismol. [:)]

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439378#Comment_439378

How do you keep Spam down? Well, there's always Pepto-Bismol.

Not sure that would be enough. Though, I hear spam is pretty good fried crispy, and served with ramen (cooked, drained, mixed with corn).

My sister likes it fried with eggs o.O

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/439649#Comment_439649

My sister likes it fried with eggs o.O

I prefer it fried crispy and placed between two slices of bread with mayonnaise, onion, and Swiss Cheese [:D]

Since I cannot do this with forum post, I do not like SPAM delivered in this manner [:@]