Old Testament Discrimination

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This post has 17 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 296
JC54 | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Dec 11 2012 12:36 PM

It might be my problem, but I feel like a new testament scholar has way more reason to be happy with a base package than a Old Testament scholar. I'll be honest I am neither of those, I am just a simple student with a deep love for the old testament.

My point is that Logos is focussing more on new testament than on old and the difference is pretty big. Has anyone noticed the difference in size in the new testament and old testament christmas bundles? it is huge. Please Logos give the Old testament a change, it is more than 2/3 of our bible after all.

Posts 5524
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 11 2012 12:50 PM

I love OT also Johannes.  Yes there is more in NT bundles than OT.  Might be reflective of what publishers came to the party with on the specials rather than a bias by Logos towards NT.  could also reflect past customer responses to sales with much greater demand for NT resources. I'm with you though and would like to see even more OT resources. In terms of commentaries I think Logos has made good progress in getting the balance  better over the last few years but still some room for improvement.  I don't ever expect the balance to be directly related to the size of the Testaments because the NT is the covenant which we live under - but the OT is very significant in fully understanding the NT so it should never be neglected.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 11 2012 12:55 PM

Johannes Hendrik Menkveld:
My point is that Logos is focussing more on new testament than on old and the difference is pretty big. Has anyone noticed the difference in size in the new testament and old testament christmas bundles? it is huge. Please Logos give the Old testament a change, it is more than 2/3 of our bible after all.

My field is OT, but I find it understandable that a company that caters mostly to Christians would place more emphasis on the NT.  Can you visualize a Christian who isn't interested in the NT?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 296
JC54 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 11 2012 1:01 PM

George Somsel:
Can you visualize a Christian who isn't interested in the NT?

agreed, although I do not think you should be able to find a christian not interested in the OT. Nevertheless, I would say that especially the higher packages (platinum and higher) will mainly attract more "professional" studying christians for which there would be almost the same amount of interest for OT and NT. 

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 12 2012 4:09 AM

Johannes Hendrik Menkveld:
Logos is focussing more on new testament than on old and the difference is pretty big. Has anyone noticed the difference in size in the new testament and old testament christmas bundles? it is huge.

But the Hebrew L Bundle is much larger than even the Greek XL Stick out tongue:

(I think they must have counted every Qumran fragment separately to get to that number, though.Big Smile)

Joking aside, I agree with you. I was shocked when I first discovered that in spite of having hundreds of commentaries, I was essentially dead in the water when it came to the 'Fifth Gospel': Isaiah. I think I had a NAC volume, and that was about it.

There's no shortage of old Evangelical stuff, but we sorely need more Jewish, Patristic, Catholic, Orthodox, and Academic OT resources.

But Navarre OT downloaded around midnight and indexed while I slept, so at least I'm better off than yesterday.Smile

 

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Posts 5317
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 12 2012 10:37 AM

The most glaring omission in my mind is Apollos Old Testament Commentary. We have the NT volumes (Pillar Commentary citations often list them as part of the Apollos series). Yes it is only 6 volumes so far but we really should have it...

-Dan

Posts 579
Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 23 2012 9:08 PM

Dan Francis:

The most glaring omission in my mind is Apollos Old Testament Commentary. We have the NT volumes (Pillar Commentary citations often list them as part of the Apollos series). Yes it is only 6 volumes so far but we really should have it...

-Dan

Logos also does not have the Holman Old Testament Commentary (which I find surprising, since another Bible program [Quickverse] has it already. I USED to use Quickverse, but then I found Logos and converted!! [Which means I am a Logos proselyte]. When it comes to Hebrew and Greek studies, I found that other program absolutely useless.) Therefore, I see no reason why we can't have the HOTC as well as the HNTC. (I made other commentary series suggestions here)

Posts 5127
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 23 2012 9:35 PM

Andrew Mckenzie:

I don't ever expect the balance to be directly related to the size of the Testaments because the NT is the covenant which we live under - but the OT is very significant in fully understanding the NT so it should never be neglected.

Not to badger you, but the New Testament is not a covenant...it is an artificial demarcation that utterly confuses what the new covenant is. The clearest ennunciations of the new covenant are found in the Old Testament...er, the Tanakh.

That's why we should have more Tanakh commentaries, but I wouldn't hold my breath...

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Posts 5317
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 26 2012 7:59 PM

Caleb S.:

Dan Francis:

The most glaring omission in my mind is Apollos Old Testament Commentary. We have the NT volumes (Pillar Commentary citations often list them as part of the Apollos series). Yes it is only 6 volumes so far but we really should have it...

-Dan

Logos also does not have the Holman Old Testament Commentary (which I find surprising, since another Bible program [Quickverse] has it already. I USED to use Quickverse, but then I found Logos and converted!! [Which means I am a Logos proselyte]. When it comes to Hebrew and Greek studies, I found that other program absolutely useless.) Therefore, I see no reason why we can't have the HOTC as well as the HNTC. (I made other commentary series suggestions here)

Yes the missing Holman is bad, I bought it in Accordance quite a while ago. I find the HBC OT very good at times and disappointing at times, all series are uneven but i find it more so. Preachers commentary series is a fairly good series with a similar point of view to Holman. Over all If i had to chose one to purchase based on my use of both i would lean to PCS even if seemingly sometimes dated in some examples. That being said I am glad I have both.

-Dan

Posts 34
Daryle Froese | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 7 2019 2:04 AM

Just to add my thoughts on this old discussion, in my opinion, a glaring example of "OT discrimination" is the dearth of studies & resources in regard to the Hebrew Scriptures use of the Hebrew Scriptures (intertextuality within the OT).  I greatly appreciate the resources that have come out more recently in the field of OT/NT intertextuality but am so desiring to see the same kind of research done in the context of just the OT itself.  Hopefully this will arise soon!

Posts 5127
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 27 2020 4:03 AM

Daryle Froese:

Just to add my thoughts on this old discussion, in my opinion, a glaring example of "OT discrimination" is the dearth of studies & resources in regard to the Hebrew Scriptures use of the Hebrew Scriptures (intertextuality within the OT).  I greatly appreciate the resources that have come out more recently in the field of OT/NT intertextuality but am so desiring to see the same kind of research done in the context of just the OT itself.  Hopefully this will arise soon!

There are tons of Tanakh resources that are "available" for FL to provide in Logos, but you won't see many of them because there isn't enough interest. I'm talking about the real deep stuff. For example, the Shiphrut collection that is published by Eisenbrauns. I asked for it many times in the forum--got very little response. That series is loaded with ultra high-value prophetic topics, but the awareness of the value & need of such stuff is minimal at best. The publisher De Gruyter has TONS of titles of extremely high value (both OT & NT)...and the series withered and died on the Logos vine, so FL pulled it off the PrePub list. But hey, you could always decide to get a thirty-ninth devotional!

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Posts 3613
Milkman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 31 2020 6:41 PM

Can you recommend any books either in FL or otherwise about the new covenant being an artificial demarcation. Not too sure what that means but would be interested in finding out more.

mm.

David Paul:

Andrew Mckenzie:

I don't ever expect the balance to be directly related to the size of the Testaments because the NT is the covenant which we live under - but the OT is very significant in fully understanding the NT so it should never be neglected.

Not to badger you, but the New Testament is not a covenant...it is an artificial demarcation that utterly confuses what the new covenant is. The clearest ennunciations of the new covenant are found in the Old Testament...er, the Tanakh.

That's why we should have more Tanakh commentaries, but I wouldn't hold my breath...

mm.

Posts 21
Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 25 2020 7:22 AM

Milkman:
Can you recommend any books either in FL or otherwise about the new covenant being an artificial demarcation. Not too sure what that means but would be interested in finding out more.

I think he means New Testament is an artificial demarcation, not the New Covenant (as in Jeremiah 31) being the artificial demarcation.  

As I understand it, the "New" Covenant is a renewal of the Old Covenant but this time the Holy Spirit is the enabling Grace which allows those who accept it to obey it, in contrast to those who accepted the Old Covenant, and didn't obey it.  

HTH

Posts 21
Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 25 2020 7:31 AM

David Paul:
There are tons of Tanakh resources that are "available" for FL to provide in Logos, but you won't see many of them because there isn't enough interest.

Yeah, and that's not FL's fault but a sad reflection on where we are with Christianity today.  Maybe the growing interest in "Messianic Christianity" and "Hebraic Roots" amongst non-Jewish Christians is the beginnings of a correction?

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 8:15 AM

Genghis:
Yeah, and that's not FL's fault but a sad reflection on where we are with Christianity today.

I think the 'issue' is two-fold:

- The FL library is considerably heavier in source material for the OT, complete with layers and layers of scholarly opinions. There's lots of NT doctrinal volumes, but little source material discussion. Lots of mss's to look at. I suspect this is  to avoid offending the Logosian congregation. But it's short-sighted ... people still 'want to know' and the cosmos is happy to oblige.

- The current OT prepubs (some excellent hebrew) are dead in the water. I suspect we've reached the end of the OT customer-base.

So. Here we are.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 21
Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 11:33 PM

Quite agree.  A pity as all the NT writers had the OT in mind when they were referring to Scripture.  Consequently a full understanding of the NT is dependent on a deep understanding of the OT.

Posts 5127
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 5 2020 3:11 AM

Milkman:
Can you recommend any books either in FL or otherwise about the new covenant being an artificial demarcation. Not too sure what that means but would be interested in finding out more.

Not sure if I missed this or skipped it because I was busy at the time. To be clear, I said that the division of OT & NT are artificial, not old covenant and new covenant...although the differences between the covenants are not as stark as some think. As far as resources, I can't think of any that specifically make the case for OT & NT being artificial, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least a couple of Logos resources voiced that perspective. My take is based mostly on broad-spectrum study and conversations held in Tohraah study sessions over a span of years. The comment about this that I've heard voiced more than once is that the blank page found between the OT & NT in your Bible should be ripped out. Anyway, as I said, the clearest enunciations of the new covenant are found in the OT.

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Posts 3285
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 5 2020 5:03 AM

The problem is most Christians are not told the NT interprets the OT and is its fulfillment- already and not not, or better the inauguration  waiting for the consummation. There lingers because of some forms of study: the OT was for Israel and the NT for Christians, a lack of knowledge to encourage true believers to search all the Scriptures.

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