Community Pricing Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graeca and Latina

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Edgar Sherman | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Dec 14 2012 5:26 AM

These seem to be just new on Community Pricing. I was just notified of them today. But the recommended price ($250) for each is the lowest price option given. That is just a flat price, not community pricing. Is that a mistake?

Ed Sherman

Posts 846
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 5:38 AM

Community Pricing items have different lowest-price bids. E.g., one I looked at starts at $2 and another at $10. Probably due to the magnitude and cost of this set, Logos' formula for cost to produce divided by number of expected CP bidders led them to calculate that the bidding/price should start no lower than $250. Since ti starts at $250, people can bid as much as $1,050 for this set, since CP titles have 17 bid levels that increase the same amount incrementally - in this case, $50 per bid level.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 10306
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 5:47 AM

Hi Edgar, and happy to see your participation on the forum.

Regarding the Patrologiae, they do that periodically when they know the production costs are going to high. If they start out 'low', the bids multiplied times the number of bids never get near the total cost to produce (and the product doesn't get produced).  So, they started this CP higher (often they'll change the scale later, as they did with the Syriac one already).

Of course most people are like us ... $250 is not too affordable. So it's an definite issue for both customers and Logos as well.


Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 6:09 AM

Edgar Sherman:
the recommended price ($250) for each is the lowest price option given. That is just a flat price, not community pricing.

There is no 'recommended price' for CP's, really. It shows as $250, simply because that's what most people have bid. That's exactly how Community Pricing works. Sometimes the community bids high, sometimes they bid low, sometimes they bid in the middle.

As for lower options, consider how many volumes these are, how large those volumes are, and how much work needs to be done on them, and I think it's unrealistic that Logos would be able to produce them for anything lower than this. Even $250 is so cheap that it will likely take many years to get enough orders to cover the production costs. Those who can afford it and really want them should bid higher.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 846
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 6:33 AM

What I found amazing was when I first got the text message or email for this product, the opening/lowest CP price was $650. I debated long and hard about that (well, not too long), and decided to click $650 anyway because I could always change my mind later and the price could drop, too. But as soon as I clicked on $650, the price instantly changed to $250. I realized I hadn't signed in yet, so when I did and went back to the page, it showed $250 as the minimum/suggested bid price. So I congratulated myself on having saved $400 in less than 10 seconds (which equates to saving $2400 a minute = $144,000 per hour, which is way more than I've ever made per hour at any job I've had), and bid for the set.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 2
Edgar Sherman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 6:50 AM

Thanks everyone. I understand it the community pricing better now!

Ed

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 6:53 AM

Eric Weiss:
What I found amazing was when I first got the text message or email for this product, the opening/lowest CP price was $650.

Which proves my point that it was the community that set the $250 price, not Logos.Smile

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 300
JPH | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 6:56 AM

Eric Weiss:
which equates to saving $2400 a minute = $144,000 per hour, which is way more than I've ever made per hour at any job I've had

that's what i'm talkin about...

Posts 846
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 7:15 AM

fgh:

Edgar Sherman:
the recommended price ($250) for each is the lowest price option given. That is just a flat price, not community pricing.

There is no 'recommended price' for CP's, really. It shows as $250, simply because that's what most people have bid. That's exactly how Community Pricing works. Sometimes the community bids high, sometimes they bid low, sometimes they bid in the middle.

As for lower options, consider how many volumes these are, how large those volumes are, and how much work needs to be done on them, and I think it's unrealistic that Logos would be able to produce them for anything lower than this. Even $250 is so cheap that it will likely take many years to get enough orders to cover the production costs. Those who can afford it and really want them should bid higher.

The 18-volume Part 1 set languished for a long time for $399. Then it suddenly changed to $90 about January 11, 2012 (as my Order Page shows) and it's STILL there. It could well be that $250 bids will keep this set out of production for a few years; maybe we'll see it in 2016. Or the fact that they're now promising the entire set may mean that they've done considerable work on it and we could have it by the end of 2013 if there are enough bids.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 1606
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 7:23 AM

To me it looks like they are sort of throwing things out there to see if they stick.  These are historically important collections, but will be expensive.  Logos has tried a portion of it by Pre-pub.  They have tried a portion by Community Pricing.  Neither flew.  Now they are trying again by dreaming big.  It will be tough, but it would be nice for them to be there.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 7:55 AM

Eric Weiss:
The 18-volume Part 1 set languished for a long time for $399. Then it suddenly changed to $90 about January 11, 2012

$399 was on prepub, before they moved it to CP.

Kenneth McGuire:
These are historically important collections, but will be expensive.

These forums are full of people who happily pay $250 for a dozen or less NT commentaries, all of which say pretty much the same as the hundreds of commentaries they already have. $250 for the Patrologia isn't expensive. $500 or $750 isn't expensive either for that matter. There are, of course, lots of people who can't pay $250 for anything, or only for the absolutely most essential, but if we leave those out of the picture, people who see these sets as expensive either don't have the language skills to justify the cost, or they value Patristic and Medieval writers very low compared to the more modern ones they do spend their money on. Objectively there's simply no way to see less than $1.50/volume as expensive. 

Kenneth McGuire:
Neither flew.  Now they are trying again by dreaming big.

Like I said in another thread: the success of these will depend very much on how much effort they spend on expanding the Catholic/Orthodox userbase, especially among priests and academics.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 1606
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 8:24 AM

fgh:
Like I said in another thread: the success of these will depend very much on how much effort they spend on expanding the Catholic/Orthodox userbase, especially among priests and academics.

Your point about what people will spend money on is valid.  Admittedly I am not Roman Catholic, but I remember looking at how FEW patristic classes were offered at the Pontifical College Josephinum (in Ohio).  The secular clergy in the Roman Catholic Church, IMHO are overworked and a bit underpaid with many other demands on their money and time.  The younger ones really would not have any more Latin than anyone else.

However, in the Religious communities, the original languages seem to be quite highly valued.  I would think that is where marketing should be focused.  But then again, this is the view of an outsider...

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

Posts 645
Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 14 2012 8:26 AM

fgh:

These forums are full of people who happily pay $250 for a dozen or less NT commentaries, all of which say pretty much the same as the hundreds of commentaries they already have. $250 for the Patrologia isn't expensive. $500 or $750 isn't expensive either for that matter. 

True, but the commentaries are in English! Most people simply wouldn't have enough use of these to justify the cost. Having these in Logos would revolutionize the market for them I think, though, so let's hope they make it happen somehow. 

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 5:30 AM

All I have to say is, if Logos can do this it would be a major advance for Christian scholars everywhere.  The word "revolutionary" is often abused; but here I think it would be aptly applied.  Go Logos!    

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 16 2013 7:38 AM

So is there any update on this?  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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