V5 - Is it worth the cost?

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This post has 61 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 10
Mike Parks | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jan 26 2013 11:01 AM

Hey everyone,

I like to keep my logos up to date, but $255.06 seems over priced for an upgrade (silver). Give me the skinny; is this new version worth that much?

Thanks,
Mike

 

Posts 25
Ram Teodosio | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 11:08 AM

I am a new Logos user, so my opinion may not mean much. From what I understand, there are several features that were enhanced from L4 to L5 such as the Clause Search and other tools that were not available in L4. 

Based on what I have read, the only reason why many want to upgrade to L5 is because they are interested in the "new packages." So, if you are satisfied with your books, I hear there is "free" cross over to L5 coming in Feb. 

Personally, I am happy with L5. I use the Mac version and seems to be pretty powerful tool.  I am investing time to learning it (and I design software for a living). So, definitely, if you are into technology and efficiency, it may be worth it to you. Many LONG time users in the forum do not think its worth upgrading and are just waiting for the engine. 

I hope this helps. 

Posts 5013
Forum MVP
Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 11:14 AM

Mike Parks:

Hey everyone,

I like to keep my logos up to date, but $255.06 seems over priced for an upgrade (silver). Give me the skinny; is this new version worth that much?

Thanks,
Mike

There are multiple options available to you.

The cheapest is the free engine, which should be released sometime in the next few weeks or so. It won't include some of the new databases though.

The next option is the minimal crossgrade, which gives you all the new features and data sets, but no resources.

The next option is to upgrade your base package. In doing that, realize that the new base packages share the same name as previous ones, but that's about it (not the best move by Logos, and they acknowledged the mess-up).  In doing that, know that only Gold and above has all the new datasets, but Silver is a pretty good place to be too. The way I always decide on an upgrade, which upgrade, or not to upgrade, is I look at what I don't have that I would get by upgrading to a particular base package. Then I consider only those resources I want and believe I'll use. If the upgrade cost is less than I'd pay for only those resources (and if my budget allows), I upgrade to that package.

I always recommend base package upgrades, because they are always the most cost effective ways to buy resources. Of course, that only matters, if the resources you get are resources you'll use. We each study & use Logos differently, so your decision will be uniquely yours in most ways.

FWIW, I am currently on L5 Platinum (upgraded from L4 Platinum). I was ready to settle for Gold, but some unexpected money came my way, and I went for Platinum. I'm very happy with my purchase.

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 10
Mike Parks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 11:14 AM

The "free" crossover sounds great! Glad you mentioned it, I didn’t know that was available.

I looked over the new books, while they look good, I am not personally sold on it.

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 11:16 AM

Mike Parks:

The "free" crossover sounds great! Glad you mentioned it, I didn’t know that was available.

I looked over the new books, while they look good, I am not personally sold on it.

To be clear, the minimal crossgrade is not free (it's about $160). The free engine however, is coming out soon.

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 10
Mike Parks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 11:21 AM

That sounds great, I will wait it out Big Smile

Posts 662
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 2:13 PM

Hi Mike. Keep in mind that the new data sets and a few resources are a part of the Minimal Crossgrade. I viewed the MC as what would be a typical program's upgrade, so $160 seemed pretty fair.

Hope you the best with your decision.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 965
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 2:18 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

Mike Parks:

The "free" crossover sounds great! Glad you mentioned it, I didn’t know that was available.

I looked over the new books, while they look good, I am not personally sold on it.

To be clear, the minimal crossgrade is not free (it's about $160). The free engine however, is coming out soon.

The Minimal Crossgrade is required to give the resources to receive the full benefits of the new L5 capabilities. An upgrade to L5 Silver or higher also gives you all the capabilities of the L5 features.

I have been very pleased with the enhanced capabilities of the L5 engine. I have found it to be well worth the $160. I upgraded from L4 Platinum to L5 Platinum to get the additional new titles in the new base package.

You can watch the Mark Barnes video to see a great demonstration of the major L5 enhancements.

Posts 1094
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 2:29 PM

Edwin Bowden:
An upgrade to L5 Silver or higher also gives you all the capabilities of the L5 features.

Silver does not contain quite all of them. Gold and above contains the Bible Sense tool, Silver does not. You can, however, upgrade to "Silver" and then buy the Bible Senses feature very cheaply.

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Posts 15915
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 2:31 PM

Rick:
and then buy the Bible Senses feature very cheaply.

How?

Dave
===

Windows PC, Android phone

Posts 965
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 2:40 PM

Rick:

Edwin Bowden:
An upgrade to L5 Silver or higher also gives you all the capabilities of the L5 features.

Silver does not contain quite all of them. Gold and above contains the Bible Sense tool, Silver does not. You can, however, upgrade to "Silver" and then buy the Bible Senses feature very cheaply.

You are correct. I was having a senior moment. I knew it was Gold, but for some reason was thinking Silver at the moment.

Someone can upgrade to whatever base pkg they want. If it is less than Gold, they can upgrade with the MC and pay a customized price for only the additional datasets they are missing. Silver was lodged in my mind because many users upgraded to Silver and then were able to get the remaining datasets with a MC upgrade for only about $7.

Posts 1094
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 3:30 PM

Dave Hooton:
How?

It looks as if they have stopped selling it as a separate purchase. It used to be that you simply went to the upgrade page, hovered your mouse over the "Bible Sense Lexicon" and it gave a price (for me) of around $7 U.S. currency. If you hover over the books available in the packages it will say "Sold Separately" and give you a price. Bible Senses used to do that.

EDIT: I simply was not remembering how to do it correctly above. To get the Senses dataset in Logos Silver all that you have to do is purchase the Minimal Crossgrade.

Clcik on the "New to You" button and it will show that it is available.

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Posts 1094
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 4:24 PM

Edwin Bowden:
I was having a senior moment.

I think that we all have those moments. In my post above I could not remember how to get the Senses tool into silver.  Big Smile

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Posts 176
Phil Mills | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 5:23 PM

Is it worth the cost? For me the minimal upgrade seemed reasonable. I looked at this cost as simply supporting Logos. There is a cost to developing and maintaining software. The Bible says "the laborer is worthy of his hire." (Luke 10:17 looked up the reference using the competitor Bible product, I really don't know how to do a simple, fast, efficient word and phrase search in L4 or L5 and I didn't want to wait while Logos was loading.)

There is a downside to having many volumes. I got the Platinum back with Logos 4 beta edition. In retrospect I wish I had not gotten so many volumes. Most I will never use and these extra books simply slow the program down. Because of this experience, I didn't give any attention to upgrading to the latest Platinum. It would simply add many more unused volumes to my library. Of course, I could weed out the unwanted volumes, but that would take a lot of time. So I just leave it alone.

Each edition of Logos contains "bells and whistles" of marginal use for most people. I think the Senses tool is in this category. I tried it when I first got L5, but it reproducibly crashed the program. So I learned to avoid it.  I just tried it again to see if it is working and the program didn't crash. I am glad to see it working, but I doubt I will use it much.

There are so many little and big features in the program--if you know the how to use them. But things that I use seldom I generally don't even remember are available. The steps necessary to utilize these feature are usually forgotten. Then I can't remember how to do it or even where to find the directions for how to do it.

This is a very feature rich program, though there are a lot of features that will be used by just a few. Sometimes Logos seems to have feature bloat. You may want to simply continue L4 until the free L5 becomes available. The longer you wait the more stable the program becomes. Let the other users be the beta testers.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 26 2013 11:13 PM

Phil Mills:
The Bible says "the laborer is worthy of his hire." (Luke 10:17 looked up the reference using the competitor Bible product, I really don't know how to do a simple, fast, efficient word and phrase search in L4 or L5

FYI:

Posts 433
Tim Engwer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 27 2013 3:00 AM

I am very pleased with the upgrade!  I particularly like the added wealth of info at your fingertips through the additions to the passage guide and the new topic guide which include sermon outlines, Themes and Thematic outlines.

Posts 176
Phil Mills | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 27 2013 3:43 AM

Thanks Graham.

It's not that I don't know how to do that search, it is that the process is not simple, fast, and efficient.

In my opinion, in an effort to do everything, Logos makes it necessary to go through too many steps for a simply search. First, I have to start the program which means waiting for 45 secs (I just timed it) to get a blank screen up (much longer if it is not a blank screen, or if it is downloading updates, then indexing). Then I need to click on the search tool, then set the parameters of the search, and then type in the phrase including the quote marks. I can't do a simple search like this in under a minute. I can't leave Logos running in the background because it is too resource hogging.

For comparison I just timed this same search in the competitive program. The competitive program took only 3 secs to load! I then typed in the phrase without the quotes marks and the entire process took 6 secs.

Since simple searches is my primary use of a Bible program, I never do Bible searches in Logos. Why bother? It is simply not an efficient use of my time.

As I've said in the past, for me, Logos is really my Bible commentary study tool. The competitive program is the more efficient Bible study tool.

Posts 9086
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 27 2013 5:20 AM

Hi Phil

Phil Mills:
It's not that I don't know how to do that search, it is that the process is not simple, fast, and efficient.

Sorry - I misunderstood.

As I tend to have Logos open all the time, running a search like this works fine for me. I understand if you need to load Logos first that is a different story!

Graham 

Posts 71
Xegesis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 27 2013 5:36 AM

That is a great point Phil. I actually use google when searching for a verse because a lot of times I will know a portion of the verse knowing I might have a word or two messed up and google always finds the right reference. I will do that search in google even with logos open.

Posts 176
Phil Mills | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 27 2013 6:42 AM

Xegesis:

That is a great point Phil. I actually use google when searching for a verse because a lot of times I will know a portion of the verse knowing I might have a word or two messed up and google always finds the right reference. I will do that search in google even with logos open.

The amazing thing to me is that Bob, the owner of Logos, and the final authority, doesn't even see this as a problem. The reality is that without this quick search capability (either to quickly enter a reference, word, or phrase) I don't use the program more than occasionally, then find it cumbersome to use because I'm not using it all the time. This works as a vicious cycle.

This then makes me feel "guilty" for having spent all this money on something that I only occasionally use. I think it has cost me more than $30 per search, for the times I have used it! I probably don't use it once a month. Perhaps it is because I was conditioned not to use it. I was oversold the program when it came out as a beta and spent hundreds of dollars for Logos4 that was unusable (no print, no copy, no stability). So I got used to reading the forum's and not using the program except when I had to. That pretty much has not changed.

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