LOGOS PLATFORM is being sold as Catholic

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This post has 149 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 3:22 AM | Locked

As long as it's a good business decision, I'm happy for Logos to make a customized product for just about any group that wants to study the Bible. They could even offer "Atheos" for non-believer Bible study. :)

Posts 19197
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 3:26 AM | Locked

Sogol:

As long as it's a good business decision, I'm happy for Logos to make a customized product for just about any group that wants to study the Bible. They could even offer "Atheos" for non-believer Bible study. :)

Yes

Posts 285
Luigi Sam | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 3:32 AM | Locked

Ken McGuire:
It was not a statement that Mary is the co-redemtrix who has a status equal to her Son.  Rome has never officially said that.  Even in proclaiming the Immaculate Conception, it is stated that this is so in order that she may bear Jesus.  I admit that I think this was an over-reach to close off this debate about when and how God made Mary able to bear Jesus...

Hi Ken,

unfortunately:

1. you have gone off context of this thread.

2. you didn't address the quote that I gave about Mary at all which I said for people to look up on pages 63-64 of "The Catechism of the Catholic Chruch in english: 1882.d_1997-08-15- SS Ioannes Paulus II - Catechismus Catholicae Ecclesiae - EN.doc

(which was raised to validate warning labels, and later after consideration of Logos being denominationally neuteral, to aid believers (all of which are obviously denominationally sensitive) to have denomination categories with features to aid search results in an orderly and progressively maturing fashion. However this is off topic here. and responses of that nature should be addressed on the "General>Warning Label Request" Thread after reading the entire thread to see how it has progressed".


Your posts are welcome, but please re-read the opening post on this thread and then feel free to reply with:

1. vaild | does the opening post raise a valid concern? why?

2. invalid. | ""

Posts 1793
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 4:23 AM | Locked

My reply started with talking about how "non-denominational" is a myth.  You have a standpoint.  It shapes what you see. I then attempted to read one of the quotes you found objectionable within the context of Roman Catholic theology as I understand it, trying to show that it didn't quite say what you think it does as an example of how our standpoints shape what we see.  I stated that I fail to see the problem in what Logos is doing in trying to provide tools for different communities. I concluded with a dream of something I WISH were somehow in some bible software programs, but I have never seen...

I suppose I should specifically say "invalid," about your concerns, but I thought it was obvious...

When you're posts have alot of spilling, grammer an usage mistackes it unfortunately maks it hard to sees what u mean.  Is sees no reason to argue further.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 4:34 AM | Locked

MJ. Smith:

PS.

Josh:
a product created solely to advance Catholic theology.

Correction: the product advances individual Catholics' Bible study which is quite a different matter - one that all people who believe the Bible is the Word of God should support especially if they believe in sola scriptura as that should imply that any serious and honest study will lead to the truth.

Yes

 

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 4:37 AM | Locked

Luigi Sam:
This thread is to raise the issue that the Logos platform is being advertised and sold as Catholic. (Verbum latin for "the word")

Are you sure your name isn't Peter Celini?  I have my suspicions since you seem to have a fixation on Catholic publications.  You might say you're Luigi Linguini-brain.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 4:37 AM | Locked

Kelvin Niblett:

Rosie Perera:

Luigi, give it up. Why do you care? Why do you feel so personally injured by Logos's decision to market a particular rebranded version of their mainstay product for Catholics, who have been less reached by the product in the past than Protestants? You're sounding an awful lot like a 5-year-old child crying "It's no fair!" to his mother because his sibling got to play with his favorite toy, when there are still hundreds of other awesome toys to play with in the toy chest. Go enjoy using Logos and stop worrying about how it is sold to this or that market segment.

It is Logos's decision, they made it for business reasons, and they are not going to change it based on one individual's repetitive griping about it. Bob has already answered your concerns and he is not interested in changing in the ways you have suggested, or in responding to you again.

You are not being penalized or restricted or charged more in any way by using the main product called Logos, or by the newer Catholic customers having it branded Verbum for them.

So just give it a rest. You are sounding like a broken record, and we're all getting sick of this topic.

Well Said!!!

 

Yes

Posts 323
Doug | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 5:32 AM | Locked

This forum has become polluted with this garbage.  Why can Luigi not take the hint that NOBODY cares about this issue except for him?  Please give it a rest.  

Posts 2768
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 5:37 AM | Locked

Luigi Sam:

However Verbum re-labels and advertises the Logos Platform as Catholic software "for Catholics".

Verbum has been out for what - three month or so?  What other re branding packages will be released in the next ten years?

Have you considered that MAYBE it is an EXPERIMENT in fine tuning for a well defined group?

That if this Verbum EXPERIMENT works that MAYBE there will be other fine tuning for other well defined groups?

'Catholic' is a reasonably well defined group [there are cracks].  Comments in this forum have implied that some groups that have a fixed name are not as well defined so how does Logos fine tune a package for them?? [some of the comments were posted as jokes]

[[Also I replied to your reply to my question on cost in another thread]]

Posts 2768
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 5:39 AM | Locked

Doug:

This forum has become polluted with this garbage.  Why can Luigi not take the hint that NOBODY cares about this issue except for him?  Please give it a rest.  

And another stated "and we're all getting sick of this topic."

But we are still posting. 

Posts 2878
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 7:53 AM | Locked

SOLUTION PROPOSAL 3:  GET OVER IT!

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 23
Riley Pippen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 8:12 AM | Locked

Michael Childs:

SOLUTION PROPOSAL 3:  GET OVER IT!

 

Yes Yes

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 8:18 AM | Locked

This thread is so funny.

It wouldn't surprise me if 99% of the (religious) world is similar to Luigi. And 99% of (religious) history. And people think he's one of a kind.  In your dreams.

My question's the same as Josh. Actually, I'm even more fascinated with the pastors.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 990
David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 8:29 AM | Locked

Luigi Sam:

Your posts are welcome

Well your posts aren't. Do us all a favor and go away and take your bigoted views with you.

 

Posts 19197
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 8:33 AM | Locked

George Somsel:

Luigi Sam:
This thread is to raise the issue that the Logos platform is being advertised and sold as Catholic. (Verbum latin for "the word")

Are you sure your name isn't Peter Celini?  I have my suspicions since you seem to have a fixation on Catholic publications.

I've been wondering the same thing. These old tired arguments sound awfully familiar. But DMB is probably right...

DMB:

This thread is so funny.

It wouldn't surprise me if 99% of the (religious) world is similar to Luigi. And 99% of (religious) history. And people think he's one of a kind.  In your dreams.

Posts 2768
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 10:29 AM | Locked

Luigi Sam:

2. you didn't address the quote that I gave about Mary 

We do not need labels for any thing to do with "Mary" of Matthew 1:18 

Most everyone knows [or should know] that some hold her in very high regard. She suffered a lot so that her son could bring us salvation. 

Can you just imagine a seventy mile ride on a donkey while in your eighth month. And then delivering on the floor and not in a bed?

[[Am rebuilding my favorite PPB 1582 Bible and only have Matthew complete]]

If that bothers you then when you come across a resource that takes that stand then why not just skip that resource?

Long term use collections or hid it.  The best person to select the resources you should use is you. 

[[the text you refereed to has been addressed - Happy now?]]

Posts 33
Andrew Blye | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 10:34 AM | Locked

This is getting almost as interesting as the comments section on a Yahoo article. Hmm

Posts 5317
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 12:16 PM | Locked

Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, I would first like to apologize if my posts in the other thread came off as harsh or unfair. The need for specifically calling Logos Protestant seems pointless, I have read your arguments and still do not understand what you are hoping to gain by sticking a label on Logos base packages. As for the arguments being made as to the soteriological issues of Roman Catholics, no group can claim salvation of all it's members. The RC do have peculiar beliefs, but the teachings on Salvation in Christ is virtually identical today as you will find in the Lutheran or Anglican churches. Yes there are a small but vocal group of people who have unorthodox beliefs and I am sorry that some are raised in churches that refuse to teach the faith properly. Perhaps it has got worse since the last two Popes have done so much to undo the good of the Vatican II councils. That being said I honestly believe JP II and Ben. have a solid understanding of salvation in Christ, and have taught it and that can not be denied by anyone reading their works. I am very glad for everyone who has found the place where they feel closest to Christ and nourished by God's truth.

Love One Another

11 the message—This is not a command, as in the old system of the law, but an announcement of something good. The message announced to us from God is that we are to love our brothers in God's family, who are fellow children of God. 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother … Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous—Cain's murder of his brother was caused by envy and hatred of his brother's righteous life. Even then there was a clear division between God's children, those who chose to love and obey him, and Satan's children, those who deliberately defied and rejected God. 13 Marvel not—The surprise would be if the world did love Christians. the world—represented by Cain (3:12). hate you—as Cain hated his own brother enough to murder him. The world hates us because it can see the difference between our godly lives and its own evil. 14 we have passed from death unto life—This radical change is also described in Colossians 1:13. because we love the brethren—Our love does not cause us to have eternal life, but it is evidence that we already have it. We must each ask ourselves if we have this love; if we do, then we can be sure that we have eternal life, and that this will be publicly revealed when Christ comes. abideth in death—This is the condition we are all in by nature, and one who does not have love shows that he has not passed from death to life. 15 hateth—This is the same as "loveth not" (3:14); there is no middle ground. Love and hatred, light and darkness, life and death: if we have one, we necessarily lack the other. is a murderer—If we hate someone, we wish he were dead, and God sees the inner desire as equal to the outward act that would result from it. no murderer hath eternal life—This statement is in the present tense, not the future. He is spiritually dead now, for his hatred is proof that he does not have God's life. 16 he laid down his life for us—Christ's example shows us that real love involves self-sacrifice which, as 3:17-19 points out, must result in self-sacrificial actions. we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren—We do this by becoming truly concerned about the needs of our Christian brothers, and by unselfishly giving time, effort, prayer, and possessions to supply those needs. Such an attitude would result in actually dying for a brother if this were ever necessary. Our lives should not be more precious to us than God's own Son was to him. 17 whoso hath this world's good [life's possessions]—If we are to give our very lives for our brothers, we certainly should not hold back money or anything we own. seeth—not glancing casually, but deliberately beholding. shutteth up his bowels of compassion—in modern idiom, "closes his heart" (RSV). how dwelleth the love of God in him?—If we respond in love to God's love for us, we will put our neighbor's needs before our own comforts or luxuries. 18 Jerome said that even when John was very old and had to be carried to the church meetings, he continued to remind the believers of Christ's command: "My little children, love one another." The brothers grew tired of always hearing the same instruction, but John insisted that this was the command of the Lord (see John 13:34), and that if we could attain just this one thing, it would be enough. 19 hereby we know that we are of the truth—We will know that "the truth is the source from whence spring our thoughts, motives, and conduct" (Vine) when we love in deed and in reality. and shall assure our hearts—If we are demonstrating love by our actions, we will not constantly be wondering whether God will accept us. before him—We are always before the Lord, since he sees and knows our hearts. A confident assurance that God accepts us should be the ordinary, daily experience of the believer. --New Testament: Based on the Classic Commentary of Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown.

Love is the only answer and it truly is enough.

 

Dan

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 12:49 PM | Locked

Dan Francis:
The RC do have peculiar beliefs

It is to be hoped that the RC do have "peculiar beliefs" as the Baptists, the Methodists, etc also have peculiar beliefs.

peculiar (pɪˈkjuːlɪǝ) adj  2 distinct from others; special  [c15: from Latin pecūliāris concerning private property, from pecūlium, literally: property in cattle, from pecus cattle] > peˈculiarly adv

Collins English Dictionary. 8th ed., Complete & unabridged ed. Glasgow: HarperCollins, 2006.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1518
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 4 2013 3:30 PM | Locked

MJ. Smith:

Josh:
If you're someone who believes that Catholic tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product created solely to advance Catholic theology.

If you're someone who believes that Catholic  Church of Christ tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance Catholic Church of Christ theology.

If you're someone who believes that Catholic  Finnish Lutheran tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance Catholic Finnish Lutheran theology.

If you're someone who believes that Catholic  Mennnonite tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance Catholic Mennonite theology.

If you're someone who believes that Catholic  Congregational tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance Catholic Congregational theology.

If you're someone who believes that Catholic  Presbyterian tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance Catholic Presbyterian theology.

If you're someone who believes that Catholic  Episcopal tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance Catholic Episcopal theology.

If you're someone who believes that Catholic  Assembly of God tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance Catholic Assembly of God theology.

If you're someone who believes that Catholic  Methodist tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance Catholic Methodist theology.

If you're someone who believes that Catholic  Unitarian tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance Catholic Unitarian theology.

If you're someone who believes that Catholic  Quaker tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance Catholic Quaker theology.

If you're someone who believes that Catholic  Jewish tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance Catholic Jewish theology.

I believe that covers my grandparents, parents, aunts & uncles, siblings and first cousins. Somehow, we can discuss religion with mutual respect. We don't need to wear name-tags with our denominational leanings. So please repeat for the 41, 000 denominations that Wikipedia refers to. I would hope it brings everyone a bit of humility.

From wikipedia: "Note: This is not a complete list, but aims to provide a comprehensible overview of the diversity among denominations of Christianity. As there are reported to be approximately 41,000 Christian denominations, many of which cannot be verified to be significant, only those denominations with Wikipedia articles will be listed in order to ensure that all entries on this list are notable and verifiable."

PS.

Josh:
a product created solely to advance Catholic theology.

Correction: the product advances individual Catholics' Bible study which is quite a different matter - one that all people who believe the Bible is the Word of God should support especially if they believe in sola scriptura as that should imply that any serious and honest study will lead to the truth.

 

No, this is not the same thing.

Logos is NOT currently promoting and advertising a product solely to advance Church of Christ, Finnish Lutheran, Mennonite, Congregational, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Assembly of God, Methodist, Unitarian, Quaker, or Jewish theologies. But Logos IS certainly doing this with Catholic theology. This has been clearly demonstrated.

 

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