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Posts 3
William R. Baldwin Jr. | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009 10:14 AM
I just bought a Mac and the Logos Mac Engine. I am soooooooooooo disappointed with Mac for Logos. Logos should have never released the Mac version until it was 100% comparable with the PC version and from what I understand the fixes to make it comparable is a long, long, long way out. Did I say a long way out? I am researching the Accordance bible software for Mac looking to abandon Logos. Anybody have any experience, advice, thoughts on Accordance??
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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 23 2009 11:12 AM

WilliamRBaldwinJr:
I just bought a Mac and the Logos Mac Engine. I am soooooooooooo disappointed with Mac for Logos. Logos should have never released the Mac version until it was 100% comparable with the PC version and from what I understand the fixes to make it comparable is a long, long, long way out. Did I say a long way out? I am researching the Accordance bible software for Mac looking to abandon Logos. Anybody have any experience, advice, thoughts on Accordance??

William

This forum is owned by Logos. They do not look with favor on discussions promoting a competitor's product. Go to http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/ and ask your question. I—and many others—will be glad to respond to you there.

Jack

Posts 1145
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 23 2009 1:22 PM

To all: Ruben Gomez has a blog that is very helpful where he reviews Logos and other Bible software programs frequently.  William, you could check it out here:

 http://www.bsreview.org/blog/?s=Accordance

He also has a link for Logos for Mac tutorials here:

http://www.bsreview.org/blog/2008/12/logos-for-mac-video-tutorials.html

Posts 492
R. Mansfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 23 2009 3:25 PM
William, Jack is right. This is probably not the most appropriate place for such a discussion. I have both Accordance as well as Logos for the Mac. I use both, but Logos to a lesser degree. If you'd like to email me offline at RMansfield@mac.com, I'd be glad to have a discussion with you.

RMansfield@mac.com
http://thislamp.com 
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Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 23 2009 3:42 PM
William, the Mac version was released in response to existing users who requested a simple "reader" version be released. It was not done to make you happy or unhappy, it was done for existing users who kept asking.

I for one am pleased with the early release. I now do 99.9% of everything without having to start up Windows on my Mac.

As to your title of this thread and promotion for the other company....

No matter your reason for posting, I am always surprised at how easily Christians eschew the concepts of respect and courtesy when on the interest or when it serves their personal interest.

Truly truly sad.

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 1956
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 3:33 AM

WilliamRBaldwinJr:
I just bought a Mac and the Logos Mac Engine. I am soooooooooooo disappointed with Mac for Logos. Logos should have never released the Mac version until it was 100% comparable with the PC version and from what I understand the fixes to make it comparable is a long, long, long way out. Did I say a long way out? I am researching the Accordance bible software for Mac looking to abandon Logos. Anybody have any experience, advice, thoughts on Accordance??

If you search these forums, you will see a number of threads about Logos for Mac, the good, the bad and the ugly.

To summarize what these posts state and feedback from Bob (CEO), they put this version 1.0 out to give Mac users the ability to read use Logos in native OSX with the features that the majority of users use.  Logos for Windows is currently undergoing a major rewrite and rather than bring the Mac version up to the same capabilities of the current Windows version, they are focusing on small improvements to the Mac version 1.0 and working to release the next major Mac version out at the same time as the next major Windows version.

Aside from the desire to have it all today, I can appreciate this strategy and would rather the next major release of the Mac software to be in step with the Windows version rather than always playing catch up.

So we wait and see. Logos for Mac 1.2 is a whole lot better than 1.0, but lets also keep in mind that this is version 1.x and has been out less than a year. So in software terms, it is in its infancy.

If you can't wait, then the other product may be what you need. I like their use of a single workspace with windows in it and have pushed for a similar architecture (along with others) on this forum.  Unfortunately, most of the materials that I am currently using in my studies are not available in the other product and therefore, Logos, even with a Mac software package in its infancy, still wins out. Also, if I need to really go for it, I run Logos for Windows under Fusion to take care of the items that I need from time to time.

Posts 31
Justin Kooy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 7:08 AM

JoanKorte:

He also has a link for Logos for Mac tutorials here:

http://www.bsreview.org/blog/2008/12/logos-for-mac-video-tutorials.html

This is out dated.  Here is a link to the tutorials: http://www.macbiblesoftware.com/support/videos/

Justin K.

Logos Ministry Development

360-685-4441

Posts 3
William R. Baldwin Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 7:27 AM

Mr. Miller,

What I think is real sad is that you think you know what my motive is. Quite frankly my motive was not to promote another product, but to honestly and respectfully ask users for advice. My limited research has suggested that the "other" product was made specifically for Mac users. I knew nothing about this product until just a few days ago and my "interest" was looking for some direction from others. I am new to forums and I was told that under the Mac forum I would meet and talk with friendly people willing to help. But based on your comment to what you preceived was my "motive" that does not seem to be the case. I have been a PC user for many years and have just resorted to Mac. I invested a lot of my finances into Logos because I think highly of it but was never told when switching to Mac that it lacked some of the basic features that the PC version had, thus my frustration. Upon reading other posts it looks like others are frustrated as well. As I stated, my intent is not to promote another product as you preceived that I was doing. I was simply looking to Godly people for some Godly advice. What amazes and surprises me is how some Christians like to judge others without really knowing who or what they are all about. I now get it. Don't make any inquires that may offend some under a preconceived misconception of the writer for fear that they may be judged unfairly. I understand now that this is not the place to ask for advice. Thanks anyway, I will now refrain from writing future question for fear I might offend someone. That is truly truly sad. As to the other posts, I appreciate your honest and friendly comments and directions that you have given me. I will never talk about the "other" product again on this forum. 

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 8:11 AM

WilliamRBaldwinJr:
Don't make any inquires that may offend some under a preconceived misconception of the writer for fear that they may be judged unfairly. I understand now that this is not the place to ask for advice. Thanks anyway, I will now refrain from writing future question for fear I might offend someone. That is truly truly sad. As to the other posts, I appreciate your honest and friendly comments and directions that you have given me. I will never talk about the "other" product again on this forum. 

Hi William,

                   I really think this is a misunderstanding. You being new to the forum & having been advise to ask question/seek help from the forum, which you did. I do know some have asked for info about Bibleworks/ the "other product" and have received helpful info in the Newsgroup before it turned to the forum, but in such a way that was not promoting any of the other products. Usually one get the reason why it is best to stick with Logos & why in the long run Logos for Mac would be a worthwhile investment. I am not sure why the world is going Mac crazyBig Smile

Writing sometimes is not a helpful medium of communication b/cos one may misunderstand your motives. That said i don't think you should take such a drastic step of not asking anymore question. We all do make mistake that is why pencils have eraser or computers have delete keys.

Regards Brother, no offence was meant – i do know the CEO & Logos are looking seriously into making Logos for Mac a great product. So my advice is be patient, in the long run you may be glad you did not give up on Logos.

Ted

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 5
Steve Bramham | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 9:13 AM

I used LOGOS for many years until I finally took the plunge to a MacBook Pro. I did run VMWare Fusion for a while so I could still access my LOGOS and BibleWorks software. 

I ordered Accordance and installed it on the Mac but didn't really care for it at first. But the LOGOS for Mac engine just didn't do what I was used to doing with LOGOS under Windows. (Not ready for prime-time)

I went back and gave Accordance a closer look and now use Accordance 100% of the time. Still have LOGOS for Mac but haven't used it in over 6 months now.

Accordance just works the way I want it to work.  There is NO going back....

 

Steve

 

 

 

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 9:19 AM
WilliamRBaldwinJr, you wrote, "Mr. Miller, What I think is real sad is that you think you know what my motive is. Quite frankly my motive was not to promote another product, but to honestly and respectfully ask users for advice"

If you want to know what the benefit of Logos for Mac is... ask here. Someone will help.

If you want to make feature suggestions... post them here. Logos will respond (sometimes).

But... what you did write was this... "I am researching the Accordance bible software for Mac looking to abandon Logos. " Please don't make a second post pleading innocence. You did not ask for help about using Logos for Mac, you came and said, "logos for Mac sucks" "I want something better" "Someone tell me about this other product and give me a good reason to switch to it" That is just flat out rude behavior sir and your motives don't change your behavior.

Now, your second post, had you started there, is much more reasoned. If you are disappointed and want some advice about using Logos Mac, great. But reread your first post... you came in with all guns blazing against Logos for Mac and asking on advice on switching to another software program.


In regard to your hurt feelings about my Christian charity, you wrote, " I was simply looking to Godly people for some Godly advice. What amazes and surprises me is how some Christians like to judge others without really knowing who or what they are all about."

This of course was in response to my comment which reads, "No matter your reason for posting, I am always surprised at how easily Christians eschew the concepts of respect and courtesy when it serves their personal interest. Truly truly sad."

...I wonder, is there a "godly" way to use Logos and an ungodly way to use it? I digress...

Anyway, I stand corrected in one thing. instead of expressing my sadness in reading the content of your post, I simply should have asked you to demonstrate more courtesy to your host, Logos, when making posts. The owner, VP and employees are Christians--your brothers and sisters in Christ. And even if you hate their software because it does not meet your needs and was not released on your timetable; my only request is that you should show more respect for the people behind it when you post. Dear brother, I am not questioning your motives. I am not judging your heart. I am not questioning your faith in Jesus. I am suggesting a more tactful approach. I hope you can overcome your hurt feelings and accept my post as an offer of gentle correction.

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 9:24 AM
Steve, You have only made 2 posts on this forum and BOTH are talking about your switch to another program. If you found something that works better for your needs. More power to you. But those who are here, are interested in Logos not your personal preference for something else.

If there is NO going back, as you say, great. But please go and don't come back only to tell everyoe how much you prefer somthing else.

That is really rude and boorish behavior.

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 457
David Buckham | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 11:28 AM

Joe,

Amen and Amen.

all about Christ,
David

all about Christ,

David Buckham

http://thinkspurlove.blogspot.com

 

 

Posts 2745
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 1:34 PM

Joe Miller:
WilliamRBaldwinJr, you wrote, "Mr. Miller, What I think is real sad is that you think you know what my motive is. Quite frankly my motive was not to promote another product, but to honestly and respectfully ask users for advice"

If you want to know what the benefit of Logos for Mac is... ask here. Someone will help.

If you want to make feature suggestions... post them here. Logos will respond (sometimes).

But... what you did write was this... "I am researching the Accordance bible software for Mac looking to abandon Logos. " Please don't make a second post pleading innocence. You did not ask for help about using Logos for Mac, you came and said, "logos for Mac sucks" "I want something better" "Someone tell me about this other product and give me a good reason to switch to it" That is just flat out rude behavior sir and your motives don't change your behavior.

Now, your second post, had you started there, is much more reasoned. If you are disappointed and want some advice about using Logos Mac, great. But reread your first post... you came in with all guns blazing against Logos for Mac and asking on advice on switching to another software program.


In regard to your hurt feelings about my Christian charity, you wrote, " I was simply looking to Godly people for some Godly advice. What amazes and surprises me is how some Christians like to judge others without really knowing who or what they are all about."

This of course was in response to my comment which reads, "No matter your reason for posting, I am always surprised at how easily Christians eschew the concepts of respect and courtesy when it serves their personal interest. Truly truly sad."

...I wonder, is there a "godly" way to use Logos and an ungodly way to use it? I digress...

Anyway, I stand corrected in one thing. instead of expressing my sadness in reading the content of your post, I simply should have asked you to demonstrate more courtesy to your host, Logos, when making posts. The owner, VP and employees are Christians--your brothers and sisters in Christ. And even if you hate their software because it does not meet your needs and was not released on your timetable; my only request is that you should show more respect for the people behind it when you post. Dear brother, I am not questioning your motives. I am not judging your heart. I am not questioning your faith in Jesus. I am suggesting a more tactful approach. I hope you can overcome your hurt feelings and accept my post as an offer of gentle correction.

 

I have to fully agree with Joe. He just said what was right and I think many of us felt it the same way after reading the post Joe responded to.

I would encourage you William "not to judge day before the evening" as our Czech proverb says. We are, I think, not long time before the new Logos version will be launched. I think it will make both PC and MAC versions much more similar than now. I would strongly recommend to wait with all the conclusions to that day. I used many Bible softwares and I am still to find something better and more complex than Logos. Of course it is just my personal opinion.

Bohuslav

Posts 736
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 2:47 PM

I have to be honest. I "lurk" the forums, just as I did the newsgroup for years before. I cannot believe the criticism that this gentlemen has gotten for asking a question. First Jack comes out and speaks for Logos in stating that they do not look in favor on discussions "promoting" competitor's product... In no way did this guy promote Accordance or anything else! He simply asked for input in the correct forum filled with Mac users as a dissatisfied Logos owner, that cannot get what he needs out of the Mac Libronix platform. This, other than asking for input about another product is very common in the Mac forums and/or newsgroup posts.

Then Joe Miller is insinuating about the respectfulness and/or courteousness of William and talking about how truly, truly sad it is. Then after reading that this offended William, instead of addressing the offense goes on to misquote William with what Joe Miller wants to read out of William's post and gets on how rude he is, I have re-read the original post many times to be objective, but there was no disrespect or rudeness in that post. There is a frustrated consumer expressing himself on the forum of the business who he is a patron of.

Steve gets condemned because his two posts are about another product... Who really cares. Guess what this is a public forum that a business looking for a way to receive customer input; both good and bad; set up for not only the benefit of customers but of Logos.

If Logos did not want to here these comments they would have never set-up the forums, and a business that truly wants to grow, is going to hear a frustrated Mac customer, study their concerns and even check out the competition themselves to look at what the competition has for the Mac platform that they do not. That is how Logos will build the best bible study software package for not only Windows, but also Mac.

Be Blessed,

 

Frank

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 3:31 PM

FrankSauer:
There is a frustrated consumer expressing himself on the forum of the business who he is a patron of.

I hope i tried to be constructive. My reading of William is as yours, one who being frustrated was letting off steam & may not have expressed himself well. When i saw he had only written one post , i was willing to give him  the benefit of the doubt. Like i said in my post this is just a misunderstanding & William's subsequent response should be taken into consideration. In my line of work i have been trained to detect the difference between frustration & aggression( i may get it wrong), they both look alike but they are different.

Ted

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 10886
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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 3:54 PM

WilliamRBaldwinJr:

Mr. Miller,

What I think is real sad is that you think you know what my motive is. Quite frankly my motive was not to promote another product, but to honestly and respectfully ask users for advice. My limited research has suggested that the "other" product was made specifically for Mac users. I knew nothing about this product until just a few days ago and my "interest" was looking for some direction from others. I am new to forums and I was told that under the Mac forum I would meet and talk with friendly people willing to help. But based on your comment to what you preceived was my "motive" that does not seem to be the case. I have been a PC user for many years and have just resorted to Mac. I invested a lot of my finances into Logos because I think highly of it but was never told when switching to Mac that it lacked some of the basic features that the PC version had, thus my frustration. Upon reading other posts it looks like others are frustrated as well. As I stated, my intent is not to promote another product as you preceived that I was doing. I was simply looking to Godly people for some Godly advice. What amazes and surprises me is how some Christians like to judge others without really knowing who or what they are all about. I now get it. Don't make any inquires that may offend some under a preconceived misconception of the writer for fear that they may be judged unfairly. I understand now that this is not the place to ask for advice. Thanks anyway, I will now refrain from writing future question for fear I might offend someone. That is truly truly sad. As to the other posts, I appreciate your honest and friendly comments and directions that you have given me. I will never talk about the "other" product again on this forum. 

William

My main point in the response to your question was two-fold: (1) You will get a better analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of Accordance from the Accordance forum, or from Ruben Gomez (As Rich suggested) than you would from dedicated Logos users. (2) This forum does belong to Logos, and Bob has previously (in the newsgroups) his desire that we not use his forums to promote other software. It should be noted that before Bob posted that message the talk about Accordance had gotten out of hand (if anyone could believe that a thread would ever get out of hand Wink.)

Stick around, William, you will learn that we are really just one big, happy, loving family. Like any family, we sometimes irritate each other (in love, of course).

Jack

Posts 457
David Buckham | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 6:30 PM

Let's be honest...all of us.  Someone comes on a Logos Forum...designed to get information about Logos customer experience.  They want to share their frustrations or even concerns...who knows maybe their likes.  So they make their post.  How would you name the post?  Accordance 8?!?  Seriously. No, there is definitely no agenda there.

Just because Burger King says "have it your way" doesn't mean I get to go order Taco Bell Volcano Nachos.  Why go to Logos and ask about Accordance?  Like what has been said, if you want to learn about Accordance go to the Accordance site.  Maybe they do not have helpful forums there?  I have been there twice and never posted, nor do I intend to.  I have used Accordance and have a friend who swears by it.   

As far as the question that was asked in the original post, it was not a Logos question.  The question was an Accordance question.  Joe was right in saying foul, poor form.  But if you want an answer to that question.  Accordance is a good program.  It's not Logos.  I like and perfer Logos better.  I wish Logos for Mac was as feature rich as Logos for PC.  It's not.  We have hopes that it will be, but we don't know when...could be soon and it could be "a long way out" as you emphasized in your opinion.

As far as pointing out who has posted what and when, I think that is fair enough.  The Logos forum, and many other forums, allow you to see what other posts or recent posts have been made.  If someone wants to speak at the church I serve, or with a parachurch group I work with, we research them to make sure what they are doing and saying adds up.  If someone on the Logos forum does nothing but post pro Accordance comments and negative Logos comments, then there is an issue of credibility.  Like it or not. 

And as far as the Logos forum.  We are a family and we do sometimes agree and disagree freely with one another.  I jumped on Jack C about a month and half ago as I got tired of his overly stated opinion on the old NG and the new forums.  Sorry Jack (I did apologize before didn't I, if not, please forgive me).  I was harsh (and absolute) in my wording/rebuking of an elder brother in Christ.  You don't always complain about Logos:Mac!  

So William, Steve and Frank...welcome to Logos.  We will talk Logos...defend or complain.  If you want to talk Accordance, take it to the appropriate forum...maybe http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/.  

I have said this before...we are fighting (call it what you want) over BIBLE SOFTWARE!!!  How childish?  My son, who is five, does this when he says my FILL IN THE BLANK is better than your FILL IN THE BLANK.  I don't like this.  We are blessed to have options that benefit us as we serve the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

all about Christ,
David

all about Christ,

David Buckham

http://thinkspurlove.blogspot.com

 

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 8:57 PM

WilliamRBaldwinJr:
I am new to forums and I was told that under the Mac forum I would meet and talk with friendly people willing to help.

Welcome to the Logos forums! .......  Smile ..........I hope you don't shy away based on  your first encounter. I have really been blessed from my many "encounters" here. My fellow posters have: encouraged me, criticized me, educated me, humored me, humbled me, reprimanded me (justly & maybe unjustly?) and sharpened my skills. I have benefited much more than just in the use of Logos Bible software.  If you stick around you may have a different perspective down the road.

When I read your first post I thought, "Oh no. Here it goes...."  To put it in a worldly analogy, it is like walking into a biker bar and yelling "Harley-Davidson's are only for wimps." - and then expecting to get out of the parking lot in one piece.  After all, this IS a Logos forum.  Considering the fact that Logos has been PC-only based software for most of it's long history and most Logos users are still running it on PCs, you should not be surprised to find there are some snafus with the Mac based version. It should also not surprise you to find a pit-bull type of response to a perceived attack on everyone's favorite Bible software. While this forum may be open to the public, it is still privately owned by Logos. It is no different than your church (whatever the denomination) from barring someone from  preaching differing doctrines from the church pulpit.

WilliamRBaldwinJr:
invested a lot of my finances into Logos because I think highly of it but was never told when switching to Mac that it lacked some of the basic features that the PC version had, thus my frustration.

Frustration understood.   Angry   As part of the Apple Developer Connection and Microsoft Developer Network I learned a long time ago NEVER expect the first version of anything to be everything you want it to be. Another analogy: In 1954 when my present church built it's first building it was small. As the decades went by and the numbers grew so did the building. Four years ago We completed a 6 million dollar structure that is already close to capacity on Sunday morning. Logos Bible software is expanding the tent to include the Mac world. This is a good thing. Some Linux users would welcome expansion in their direction too. During any massive project there will be inconveniences and frustrations.  Remember you thought highly enough of Logos to invest a lot in it . Hopefully you will stick around long enough to see it was worth it.

If you must use different software to meet your needs, be thankful you have that choice. You will probably get friendlier responses criticizing Harleys in a Japanese bikers bar.... Beer  .....Are there any?? 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 24 2009 9:12 PM

Pastor Steve Bramham:

Accordance just works the way I want it to work.  There is NO going back....

 

Steve

And then Steve yells, "Harley-Davidson's are only for wimps."

Run, Steve, Run..!!  Devil

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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