How do I search the construction of two imperatives connecting with the Greek καὶ in Logos 5?
Hi, can anyone teach me how to search a Greek construction? I want to search the construction of two imperatives connecting with the Greek καὶ appeared in NA28 with Logos 5. Thank you!
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@V??M BEFORE 2 WORDS και BEFORE 2 WORDS @V??MDaniel Shangguan said:Hi, can anyone teach me how to search a Greek construction? I want to search the construction of two imperatives connecting with the Greek καὶ appeared in NA28 with Logos 5. Thank you!
2 words was somewhat arbitrarily chosen to allow for an intervening word as in Mt 5.29.
To translate the symbols,
- @ indicates that you are specifying something regarding the morphology of the word (even though no word is specified).
- The "V" indicates that a verb is desired
- The question marks indicate that I have specified nothing regarding tense or voice
- The "M" indicates that the form is to be imperative
The drop-down form will guide you through it.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George, thank you so much for your prompt reply. This is really helpful. I had tried "@V??M BEFORE @V??M AND kai," but didn't figure out how to add in "BEFORE 1/2 WORDS." And, thanks for the tip that I should consider the situations about intervening words as in Mat 5:29.
Just tried to finish a Greek grammar research homework. I appreciate your help. Thanks!
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And, George, do you know if I can try to do this search in syntax search? I have tried, using someting like this: word 1 (imperative) + word 2 (kai)+ word 3 (imperative), but it showed nothing. I feel syntax search is too complicated for me.
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Daniel Shangguan said:
And, George, do you know if I can try to do this search in syntax search? I have tried, using someting like this: word 1 (imperative) + word 2 (kai)+ word 3 (imperative), but it showed nothing. I feel syntax search is too complicated for me.
.Ask Dave Hooton. I have yet to successfully complete a sytax search.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Daniel Shangguan said:
And, George, do you know if I can try to do this search in syntax search? I have tried, using someting like this: word 1 (imperative) + word 2 (kai)+ word 3 (imperative), but it showed nothing. I feel syntax search is too complicated for me.
.Hi Daniel
Does this give you what you want
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George Somsel said:
And, George, do you know if I can try to do this search in syntax search? I have tried, using someting like this: word 1 (imperative) + word 2 (kai)+ word 3 (imperative), but it showed nothing. I feel syntax search is too complicated for me.
.It is quite complex but can give more meaningful results in terms of grammatical significance, so based on Matt 5.29 I constructed the following:
The separation is dependent on the two clauses either side of the conjunction, rather than an arbitrary number of words. Graham's solution means that the words must follow one another.
You can compare the results of George's text search with this and decide which is the more useful.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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After hovering mouse on some Cascadia items in Matt 5:29, noticed Clause has verbal mood so constructed a Syntax Search:
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Graham, yes, it did work. First time I successfully complete a syntax search! The result is the same as that of morph search (@V??M BEFORE 1 WORD και BEFORE 1 WORD @V??M). This syntax search says 54 results (in 52 verses) and the morph search says 162 results in 52 verses. The times of result are different because they have different things to count as result. However, I have a question. I used the method below to try to perform the search. What is the wrong with this method?
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Dave, this is an eye-opening experience for me. It is sort of complicated, but I figured out and performed the search. It did come with more results including those that should be considered, like "Take the child and his mother and flee to Egypt." Thank you. This is the first time that I performed a complicated syntax search. And I tried the following alternative, what is the difference?
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Hi Keep Smiling, thanks a lot for your input. What you suggested is exactly the alternative method I came out with Dave's suggestion. I asked him about the difference of these two syntax searches. With this kind of search method, it brings out more results (229 results vs. 190 results).
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Hi Daniel
Daniel Shangguan said:yes, it did work. First time I successfully complete a syntax search!
Glad it worked
Daniel Shangguan said:However, I have a question. I used the method below to try to perform the search. What is the wrong with this method?
If you look at the way the sentences are structured you show that there are ways of refining the search criteria "into the clause" and then there are ways of adding extra components to it.
So an example below from the first hit from the search:
The search I suggested allowed for a verb followed by the conjunction followed by the verb (so moving down vertically through the structure)
If I had wanted to refine the conditions (more in line with what Dave showed) then I could have specified Clause - Verbal Function - Verbal Phrase etc. So left-to-right (which is what your search was doing) provides more fine control.
Hope that makes sense - and hope that someone else can provide a better explanation[:)]
Graham
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Graham, now I see. Yes, that is the way it designs to search and analyze the constructions of the Greek clauses in Cascadia Syntax Graphs of the NT. Reading the constructions in Cascadia Syntax Graphs of the NT helps me understand the way they designed it. Thanks. This is a lesson I have learned!
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Daniel Shangguan said:
Reading the constructions in Cascadia Syntax Graphs of the NT helps me understand the way they designed it.
Personally have learned to look at Syntax graphs when building a Syntax search. For grins, created a Syntax search for sentences that have two imperative clauses, which have a kai connection between them.
Matching Skip Levels is checked for Clause 1 to allow Syntax search match of verbal clauses anywhere in a sentence.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Daniel Shangguan said:
It did come with more results including those that should be considered, like "Take the child and his mother and flee to Egypt." Thank you. This is the first time that I performed a complicated syntax search. And I tried the following alternative, what is the difference?
A Verbal Clause (KS4J) and a Verbal Function (within a clause) both reflect the characteristics of the main verb in the clause, so you can choose to define a verb at the level you think appropriate. The Clause level will give more results when there is a hierarchy of clauses around the main verb e.g. Matt 5:24 "leave .. and ... go".
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Keep Smiling, Dave, Graham, and George, you guys are so nice. It is the first time that I have asked question in the forum. You guys are so helpful and knowledgable. Thank you for helping me. God bless!
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Hi Daniel
Please feel free to come back with any questions you may have regarding the use of Logos software
Graham
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