Announcing New Logos Video Tools: Learn Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos

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This post has 153 Replies | 13 Followers

Posts 106
Mark Martin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 8:40 PM

In response to the MP Seminars - This material fits in Camp 2.  I have attended L3 Camps 1 & 2 and just attended L4 Camp 1 in Nashville.  We didn't touch upon searching the originals.  Morris stated that this would be  L4 Camp 2 which is several months down the road before it will be developed.

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Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 8:53 PM

JackCaviness:

Reuben Evans:
hanks for your comments. I understand your concerns. And I think it is important what Dr. Heiser sys at the end of the video that "this is not meant to replace traditional Greek and Hebrew courses."

I did not say that the resource had no value. I have ordered it and intend to use it. However, the advertising implies that is it a replacement for traditional training. I received more than 15 hours of content in my first Greek course, and it was not all rote memorization. Beyond the first year, I recall little memorization, but I did have a great deal of application.

 

  • Over 15 hours of content taught by Dr. Mike Heiser and Johnny Cisneros using Logos 4. That is equivalent content of an entire college class!
  • Covers the tools you would get in three years of traditional Greek and Hebrew classes.

 

Thanks for ordering it, Jack. I hope it is a blessing to you. Make sure to let us know your thoughts as you go through it.  It sounds like you had a great experience in class and a prof that emphasized application. Others spend the whole of the first year memorizing vocab. and paradigms with almost zero application. So we hope to bring that application, or "pay off," as Dr. Heiser puts it, upfront.

I should point out that at the end of the video Dr. Heiser says, "Our ultimate goal is not that these videos replace traditional Greek and Hebrew courses..."

For those desiring to do translation work,  or sight-read this course will be a great intro, but not an end-all, be-all. I'm sorry if we communicated that. 15 hours relates to the number of hours in a typical 1 hour/ 1 semester college class. In that respect the volume of instruction is the same as if you took a 1 hour class. "Covers the tools you would get in three years of traditional Greek and Hebrew classes" refers to the Lexicons/grammars/reference works etc... (i.e. tools) that a student would be made familiar with over a typical 3 years of Greek (2 semesters of "Grammar", 2 semesters of Syntax and 2 semesters of Exegesis). 

 

Hope that helps to clarify things! and thanks again!

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Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 8:57 PM

Mark Martin:

In response to the MP Seminars - This material fits in Camp 2.  I have attended L3 Camps 1 & 2 and just attended L4 Camp 1 in Nashville.  We didn't touch upon searching the originals.  Morris stated that this would be  L4 Camp 2 which is several months down the road before it will be developed.

Mark,

I'm looking forward to seeing what Morris puts together in Camp 2! However he won't be actually teaching people things like, "What is the hophal stem in Hebrew, and how does it affect my interpretation of this passage?" and "What does a commentator mean when he talks about a 'Genitive of Means'?" Those are the kind of "nuts & bolts" of Greek and Hebrew we'll be covering in this video series.  

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 9:07 PM

Reuben Evans:

Joe Miller:

seems like a very good resource to help discern how Logos can be used for Greek study.

Reuben, how much of this is covered in the MP seminars? How much is unique to this video set?

Joe 

This content is 100% unique to this series of videos. 

Okay, thanks for that extra info. Yes

 

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Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 9:08 PM

Reuben,

I do hate to harp on this but please go to 2:40 in the introductory video....

"This may sound crazy but what I'm going to say next is sincere....After completing these videos with comprehension you will be at the level of a third year Hebrew or Greek student who was trained by traditional methods, all without memorizing anything....."

 

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Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 9:28 PM

Damian McGrath:

Reuben,

I do hate to harp on this but please go to 2:40 in the introductory video....

"This may sound crazy but what I'm going to say next is sincere....After completing these videos with comprehension you will be at the level of a third year Hebrew or Greek student who was trained by traditional methods, all without memorizing anything....."

 

Damian,

No problem. I see how that could be misunderstood. Dr. Heiser is talking about being at the level of a third year student as in regards to their abilities to use tools for exegesis and their understanding of grammatical/syntatical concepts. Which is the main reason students take the original languages. He wasn't meaning to imply that one would be able to sight-read the text without memorization. So my guess is that he took that distinction for granted, but he did say at the end that it was not a substitute for formal training if you desired to do the memory work that requires (and subsequently obtain the ability to sight-read.) I agree, It could have been clearer.

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 9:37 PM

Thanks Reuben.

Again, I know that my 3 years of Hebrew aren't the same as college level Hebrew - my first year was five days a week with an expected minimum of 4 hours a day homework.

I really think that what is being aimed for with this resource is a good thing and I'm sure I will learn better ways to use the resources at my disposal under Logos.

But, I'd encourage the marketing people to have a look at the material again and see if it's not appearing to offer more than is intended...  There are a number of places which appear to imply equivalence with 3 years of study (full stop). 

Anyway, that's enough from me on this matter. I look forward to this product's release and to whatever I'll be able to learn or re-learn by using it...

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Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 9:42 PM

Damian McGrath:

But, I'd encourage the marketing people to have a look at the material again and see if it's not appearing to offer more than is intended...  There are a number of places which appear to imply equivalence with 3 years of study (full stop). 

I'll have them take a second a look at it. Thanks, Damian.

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 9:43 PM

Reuben, will the series explore the use of the Cascadia tools?

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Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 9:52 PM

Joe Miller:

Reuben, will the series explore the use of the Cascadia tools?

 We will be doing training videos on using them that will up on the website for free. So this series will not cover them in-depth. But it will be at least several weeks before we see them. However, owning this series will help you tremendously as you interpret the information you get from using the Cascadia tools. Really, at least a basic knowledge of Greek or Hebrew is required to use the Syntax searching tools in Logos 4 effectively. I will be interested to see how people who have taken this course take to using the Syntax searching. It is pretty advanced stuff for just about anybody.

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2009 10:02 PM

Sounds good.  I really liked the look of the Cascadia tools during beta testing in Windows and I can't wait until I can play again in Mac.  

PS

If you need to hire some local talent to assist in the video production, let me know.  I have been building some on-line tools for a corporate client, but would rather do it for Logos. :-)

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Posts 1145
William | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 1:29 AM

When does this product get off pre-pub?  I really have no hope of getting it  at the 500 price. but am also really pressed for funds even with the 160 price.  I realize there is the payment plan?? but that option really upsets me.  I just don't understand how  administrative fees of 5.00 per month are actually needed.  That seems steep. 

Anyway, I am going to try to collect that 160....

(Please Lord, Let me have some time to figure this out.)

William

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 3:52 AM

Reuben Evans:
15 hours relates to the number of hours in a typical 1 hour/ 1 semester college class. In that respect the volume of instruction is the same as if you took a 1 hour class.

My school did not offer a 1 semester hour class. There were 4 three hour courses at undergraduate, and 2 semester hour courses at the graduate level. I was not aware that anyone offered a 1 hour course.

I watched the teasers, and I expect the course to be valuable. However, all the loud wailing and gnashing of teeth over the publicity surrounding the release of L4, I simply want Logos to be cautious about over selling the product. Unmet expectations is the greatest cause of customer dissatisfaction.

Posts 383
Stephen Thorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 3:57 AM

Will it ever be possible to get the material as two separate modules - i.e Greek and Hebrew?

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 7:03 AM

WilliamBingham:
I realize there is the payment plan?? but that option really upsets me. I just don't understand how administrative fees of 5.00 per month are actually needed. That seems steep.

It appears steep?  Really? 

Perhaps it appears steep if you're spreading a small purchase over 3-6 months, but  keep in mind a few things...

Even with 750,000 some odd users, Logos is a small company by global standards.  To make it "worse" only a small percentage of that group buy more books once they get their collection.  Of that group, only a small percentage take advantage of the pricing plan.  Granted: I don't KNOW what the real numbers are - I'm guessing based upon what I've read and understood from other semi-related threads and correspondence. 

But that translates into Logos, who is not a bank and not a financier having to hire a person or dedicate a person to making sure all of this internal billing, paperwork, follow through (and what happens to "bad debts"?) is taken care of for them.  This convenience for users like me who have (and are) using the payment program translates into someone who needs to eat and pay his or her bills, and thus requires a paycheck every week from Logos.  So while it may not cost $5 for a printout with your name on it, that person reading, filling, manipulating and working with the information in that printout needs to eat.  Beyond that, I'll almost guarantee that $5 is much less than what a credit card would cost you.

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Posts 142
James Macleod | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 7:19 AM

Stephen Thorp:

Will it ever be possible to get the material as two separate modules - i.e Greek and Hebrew?

 

I'm interested in this as well. I read Greek already but would be interested in the Hebrew by itself.

Posts 1
Terry Stump | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 7:53 AM

why dont i get any sound when playing the 3 videos? i rebooted and tried different brousers, etc.. thanx

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Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 8:00 AM

James Macleod:

Stephen Thorp:

Will it ever be possible to get the material as two separate modules - i.e Greek and Hebrew?

 

 

I'm interested in this as well. I read Greek already but would be interested in the Hebrew by itself.

Right now I don't know if we will split them up. However, the cost for half the package would be more than the Pre-pub special.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 8:02 AM

I too have ordered the pre-pub and look forward to using the product. To no avail, I nagged my language tutors at seminary to teach me grammar and concepts (which I must understand) as opposed to vocabulary (which I can look up if necessary). This product looks like exactly what I wanted.

Nevertheless, I share the concerns of others that you're overselling this. It's possible this is a cultural thing, and non-Americans are more sensitive to it. Thankfully not all of us live in a country with billboards on every corner and live television sport constantly interrupted by advertising. As a consequence you don't always have to shout to get attention.

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Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 8:02 AM

TerryStump:

why dont i get any sound when playing the 3 videos? i rebooted and tried different brousers, etc.. thanx

You may try to update your Flash plugin, or click the "YouTube" link in the corner of the video to try to watch it on their site. Does anybody else have this problem? 

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