Announcing New Logos Video Tools: Learn Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos

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This post has 153 Replies | 13 Followers

Posts 54
Dave Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 8:07 AM

I just have to say this resource is exactly what I've been looking for.

I didn't go to seminary right out of school, instead went to a Bible School that focused on "equipping you with tools for ministry". Which in hindsight translated to applying business principles to church. The church I met Jesus at was in a denomination not known for their theologians. 

I'm now in my 30s with a young family and a new passion for establishing worldview based on the Bible. I wish I had a 4 year degree to get into a seminary but at my family's stage I can't go to school but I want to learn how to leverage Logos to study the original languages and evaluate varying opinions from commentaries and lexicons.  

Logos software has given me a ton of tools but I don't know how to use them. A lot of the training I see online focuses on the what to do, not the how and why to do it if that makes sense. In other words don't tell me what the button does. But let me know when and why I'd use that button. 

Posts 52
LogosEmployee
Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 8:07 AM

Mark Barnes:

I too have ordered the pre-pub and look forward to using the product. To no avail, I nagged my language tutors at seminary to teach me grammar and concepts (which I must to understand) as opposed to vocabulary (which I can look up if necessary). This product looks like exactly what I wanted.

Nevertheless, I share the concerns of others that you're overselling this. It's possible this is a cultural thing, and non-Americans are more sensitive to it. Thankfully not all of us live in a country with billboards on every corner and live television sport constantly interrupted by advertising. As a consequence you don't always have to shout to get attention.

That made me smile. Most of the "regular" (non-pastors/students) thought the video was pretty dull :-) I will say that I have seen all the material that will be covered in this course, and how it is covered. These guys are bringing the goods. We are trying something here that no one else has ever done. So we understand the skepticism. It is the tech in Logos 4 that makes it possible to use the language without typical memory work.

Posts 5622
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 8:08 AM

TerryStump:

why dont i get any sound when playing the 3 videos? i rebooted and tried different brousers, etc.. thanx

No problem here.  Make sure you have sound in other programs on your computer--it could be a system problem (oh and make sure your system volume isn't muted Smile ).   The first thing I do when I'm having sound problems is go to the Sounds control panel and adjust the volume. If it beeps when I do that then I know it's not my system.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 709
Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 8:11 AM

Reuben,

Would you guys discourage or encourage ministers buying these videos to use in group settings in their churches?

I know there might be some fear that encouraging that would hurt potential sales but I suspect the opposite might actually prove to be true.

I'm not talking about buying one set and passing it around. I'm talking about allowing the purchaser to use his copy in teaching and training others.

{EDIT}

If an individual in the training became interested enough to want to "borrow" the videos, that person should obviously be required their own copy.

To me it should work like any other Logos resource that I use in my public teaching. I can display it publicly but I can't share the files with individuals.

What is the official position on this issue?

{/EDIT}

Posts 298
Kaye Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 8:19 AM

 

Reuben Evans:
I will say that I have seen all the material that will be covered in this course, and how it is covered. These guys are bringing the goods. We are trying something here that no one else has ever done. So we understand the skepticism. It is the tech in Logos 4 that makes it possible to use the language without typical memory work.

Reuben, I believe you.  While nothing is right for everyone and Mark is right about Americans and our "hype" advertising I think it IS what I need.  I can't take courses right now or spend a few years in Bible school to become a scholar capable of translating and teaching but I'm a good self-learner looking for ways to understand God's Word to ME and to let that shine to anyone around me.  I know the Holy Spirit can teach me anything...with no earthly tools needed...but I do want to show my willingness to put forth effort, too.

I'm looking forward to "the goods"!

Kaye

"But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."  2 Timothy 4:5 (NASB)

Posts 52
LogosEmployee
Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 9:07 AM

Russ Quinn:

Reuben,

Would you guys discourage or encourage ministers buying these videos to use in group settings in their churches?

I know there might be some fear that encouraging that would hurt potential sales but I suspect the opposite might actually prove to be true.

I'm not talking about buying one set and passing it around. I'm talking about allowing the purchaser to use his copy in teaching and training others.

{EDIT}

If an individual in the training became interested enough to want to "borrow" the videos, that person should obviously be required their own copy.

To me it should work like any other Logos resource that I use in my public teaching. I can display it publicly but I can't share the files with individuals.

What is the official position on this issue?

{/EDIT}

- Let me get back to you on that.

Posts 236
Bruce Junkermann | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 10:00 AM

Hey Reuben, Got the videos in my prepub list!  Looking forward to some very needed training.  I graduated from seminary almost twenty years ago and am embarrassed to say that my language skills are not what they once were.  I've spent most of my ministry in children's ministry where I have relied on publishers to provide material.  Disappointed with the depth of most material and convinced that children can grasp significant concepts if taught well, I've begun to write my own material for our summer discipleship ministry.   My hope is that these training videos will help me get the most out of the original texts so that I can be accurate in my exegesis and wise in my interpretation and clear in my application.  Thanks again for your efforts.  They are much appreciated!

Posts 52
LogosEmployee
Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 10:08 AM

BruceJunkermann:

Hey Reuben, Got the videos in my prepub list!  Looking forward to some very needed training.  I graduated from seminary almost twenty years ago and am embarrassed to say that my language skills are not what they once were.  I've spent most of my ministry in children's ministry where I have relied on publishers to provide material.  Disappointed with the depth of most material and convinced that children can grasp significant concepts if taught well, I've begun to write my own material for our summer discipleship ministry.   My hope is that these training videos will help me get the most out of the original texts so that I can be accurate in my exegesis and wise in my interpretation and clear in my application.  Thanks again for your efforts.  They are much appreciated!

That'll preach! now you just need a poem :-)  And I can't agree with you more on exegesis in children's ministry. I found that teaching children (and special needs) from my own exegesis forced me to distill the text to its essence, it forced me to have an even better handle on the text in order to explain it in the simplest way possible. I do know that there are some ministries who are trying to "beef up" kids ministry material.  

 

Posts 52
LogosEmployee
Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 10:29 AM

Russ Quinn:

Reuben,

Would you guys discourage or encourage ministers buying these videos to use in group settings in their churches?

I know there might be some fear that encouraging that would hurt potential sales but I suspect the opposite might actually prove to be true.

I'm not talking about buying one set and passing it around. I'm talking about allowing the purchaser to use his copy in teaching and training others.

{EDIT}

If an individual in the training became interested enough to want to "borrow" the videos, that person should obviously be required their own copy.

To me it should work like any other Logos resource that I use in my public teaching. I can display it publicly but I can't share the files with individuals.

What is the official position on this issue?

{/EDIT}

Russ,

Thanks for asking. Here is what I came up with

"It is a single user license. We can't stop someone from projecting it, but for best results it should be on the student's machine.We will be offering packages for classroom use in the future. Before anybody lays plans they should use the product and gain familiarity with it themselves."

So it is designed to be purchased by the individual students like a textbook. Then they have it for reference and review. My hunch is that if students didn't have their own copy they would get frustrated quickly by not being able to rewind and review. So it is not being sold as a license for 1 per class, rather 1 per student. It looks like there will be some type of bulk discount for educators in the future.

hope that helps!

Posts 709
Russ Quinn | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 10:56 AM

Reuben Evans:

Russ,

Thanks for asking. Here is what I came up with

"It is a single user license. We can't stop someone from projecting it, but for best results it should be on the student's machine.We will be offering packages for classroom use in the future. Before anybody lays plans they should use the product and gain familiarity with it themselves."

So it is designed to be purchased by the individual students like a textbook. Then they have it for reference and review. My hunch is that if students didn't have their own copy they would get frustrated quickly by not being able to rewind and review. So it is not being sold as a license for 1 per class, rather 1 per student. It looks like there will be some type of bulk discount for educators in the future.

hope that helps!

Thanks, Reuben.

I am glad you guys are producing this material.

Will the educational discount be available for groups of students in church small groups?

Or will actual academic enrollment be required?

Posts 52
LogosEmployee
Reuben Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 10:59 AM

Russ Quinn:

Reuben Evans:

Russ,

Thanks for asking. Here is what I came up with

"It is a single user license. We can't stop someone from projecting it, but for best results it should be on the student's machine.We will be offering packages for classroom use in the future. Before anybody lays plans they should use the product and gain familiarity with it themselves."

So it is designed to be purchased by the individual students like a textbook. Then they have it for reference and review. My hunch is that if students didn't have their own copy they would get frustrated quickly by not being able to rewind and review. So it is not being sold as a license for 1 per class, rather 1 per student. It looks like there will be some type of bulk discount for educators in the future.

hope that helps!

Thanks, Reuben.

I am glad you guys are producing this material.

Will the educational discount be available for groups of students in church small groups?

Or will actual academic enrollment be required?

Well, we haven't come up with the classroom pricing for this product yet, but typically academic pricing is only for academic users. But I'll double check to for you.

Posts 298
Kaye Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2009 1:27 PM

I see we have made it to "Under Development" status.  Awesome! Cool

"But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."  2 Timothy 4:5 (NASB)

Posts 1
LogosEmployee
| Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 12:29 PM

I've posted on the forums before, so I hope this goes in the right place!

The way to correctly frame what the courses are about is to firmly grasp that their goal is not to produce people who can translate Greek or  Hebrew, but to give people the ability to UNDERSTAND and EVALUATE. Briefly, our goals with the video tools are (1) to inform people  how to understand grammatical and lexical discussions in commentaries, articles, sermons, etc. with respect to Greek and Hebrew; and (2)  to be able to use Hebrew and Greek tools with enough proficiency that they can evaluate what they've read or heard in a commentary.    Frankly, with enough practice, I'd hope people could feel confident to answer questions that commentaries avoid or don't devote much  attention to (we've all had that frustration with commentaries). Achieving these goals doesn't require memorizing vocabulary or forms. You  could even go without the alphabets, but we recommend them in the videos since the alphabet makes a few more tools accessible.

I should probably relate a bit of my own experience so you understand this rationale. I actually had Greek syntax three times in my  classroom career - once as an undergrad and twice in two different seminaries. I never got to anything that resembled what goes on in a  good commentary. We spent a lot of time in syntax courses wondering if that genitive was objective or subjective, and whether this aorist  was gnomic or something else.  It was like filing paperwork. No syntax teacher I ever had asked or answered the simple questions -- the  questions everyone in the room wanted to discuss: So, how would I use that syntax observation/decision in a sermon?  Where did the  observation/decision take me in terms of meaning?  Does it affect how I think theologically?  It wasn't that my syntax teachers weren't good  scholars or teachers. They just had to get through the notes or the textbook. We're not interested in having people memorize the 16 (or 18  or 30+ or whatever) uses of the genitive case, depending on the book. While there is something to be said for knowing that many nuances  of the genitive exist, how that knowledge can be used homiletically is not self evident (i.e., it doesn't derive from knowing the grocery list).  What most pastors-in-training (and in real ministry) want from their language courses is to have a real feel for why Greek and Hebrew is  valuable for preaching. They don't see the point with producing their own English translation since they have many good ones. They won't  be writing a commentary. They just want insights into the text that they can transmit to their congregations. They want to feel secure that  what they are saying over the pulpit is rooted in the text. The traditional Greek and Hebrew classes one takes in the first and second year of  seminary just don't do this well, if at all. Yes, you would likely get to that good stuff beyond the second year, but many pastors-in-training  cease their language training after second year since the required courses are under their belt. Since they really haven't seen much payoff  after two years of investment (and with some, suffering), the motivation to use up electives somewhere else is powerful. This failure to  demonstrate usefulness at the first and second year level is why many seminary students opt for two year programs without language  coursework (and therefore why seminaries create those programs). Those programs and students are the target of these video tools (as well  as pastors who want a langauge refresher or who hope they get what they really wanted this time around). However, we hope that putting the  payoff up front -- showing users that Greek and Hebrew can really put meat into a sermon -- will stimulate more people to jump into  traditional courses with all their memorization.  

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 12:43 PM

I have studied languages in seminary, and I love the vision you have for this series.  It should be very helpful!

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 5:14 PM

Michael,

Thanks for the detailed explanation; that's just exactly what I'm looking for...I look forward to this series..

 

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 1145
William | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 11:42 PM

Thomas Black:

WilliamBingham:
I realize there is the payment plan?? but that option really upsets me. I just don't understand how administrative fees of 5.00 per month are actually needed. That seems steep.

It appears steep?  Really? 

Perhaps it appears steep if you're spreading a small purchase over 3-6 months

Yes, It is steep. Even steeper to drag the 160 out to 12 months. (if its even possible)

Thomas Black:
Even with 750,000 some odd users, Logos is a small company by global standards.  To make it "worse" only a small percentage of that group buy more books once they get their collection.  Of that group, only a small percentage take advantage of the pricing plan.  Granted: I don't KNOW what the real numbers are - I'm guessing based upon what I've read and understood from other semi-related threads and correspondence.

I would think more than a small percentage would add books as new books come out but maybe not.

Thomas Black:
But that translates into Logos, who is not a bank and not a financier having to hire a person or dedicate a person to making sure all of this internal billing, paperwork, follow through (and what happens to "bad debts"?) is taken care of for them.  This convenience for users like me who have (and are) using the payment program translates into someone who needs to eat and pay his or her bills, and thus requires a paycheck every week from Logos.  So while it may not cost $5 for a printout with your name on it, that person reading, filling, manipulating and working with the information in that printout needs to eat.  Beyond that, I'll almost guarantee that $5 is much less than what a credit card would cost you.

Well, using this in-house buying option produces "bad debt".  Maybe just remove the option altogether.  As I have thought about it more and performed some mathematical calculations I believe that removal of this option is the most stewardly thing to do with the Lord's money. 

Maybe I am thinking too much about the NO DEBT except the house kind of christians.  That would prevent sales as was attested to before the program was available.  

Win in worldly things but lose in spiritual things.  We have enough debt to God let alone other people.

William

P.S.  The Lord did provide.I forgot to ask for a weekly paycheck from one job and I just happened to find some stashed money.  I do stash money and "forget it."  Like Ron Popeal says set it and forget it.  Big Smile

 

 

 

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 16 2009 9:52 AM

William, Praise God you found the the funds! 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 16 2009 10:50 AM

MichaelSHeiser:
The way to correctly frame what the courses are about is to firmly grasp that their goal is not to produce people who can translate Greek or  Hebrew, but to give people the ability to UNDERSTAND and EVALUATE. Briefly, our goals with the video tools are (1) to inform people  how to understand grammatical and lexical discussions in commentaries, articles, sermons, etc. with respect to Greek and Hebrew; and (2)  to be able to use Hebrew and Greek tools with enough proficiency that they can evaluate what they've read or heard in a commentary. 

 

Dr. Heiser,

Thank you for producing this. It sounds perfectly suited for me. My Greek classes were 30 years ago and I never got a handle on Hebrew. I understand the concerns others have expressed about  the content not matching the depth of seminary courses. I am not a pastor or exegete but do enjoy digging deeper into my study of the Bible. I was blessed with getting Word Biblical Commentary recently and have found it richer in content than I recall from my previous exposure. I look at this product more as a guide to using the tools already available in Logos rather than a promise of mastery of the original languages. George Somsel (a local hero on the forum) has pointed out it takes years of diligent study to master Hebrew & Greek. I doubt I have that many years to devote so I will gladly settle for tools like this that open up a richer payoff  for my self-studies. This may prove to be the only language study instruction some lay-ministers have access to. Not everyone can go to seminary.

Matthew

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 187
Anthony Etienne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 16 2009 11:55 PM

Thomas Black:

WilliamBingham:
I realize there is the payment plan?? but that option really upsets me. I just don't understand how administrative fees of 5.00 per month are actually needed. That seems steep.

It appears steep?  Really? 

Perhaps it appears steep if you're spreading a small purchase over 3-6 months, but  keep in mind a few things...

Even with 750,000 some odd users, Logos is a small company by global standards.  To make it "worse" only a small percentage of that group buy more books once they get their collection.  Of that group, only a small percentage take advantage of the pricing plan.  Granted: I don't KNOW what the real numbers are - I'm guessing based upon what I've read and understood from other semi-related threads and correspondence. 

But that translates into Logos, who is not a bank and not a financier having to hire a person or dedicate a person to making sure all of this internal billing, paperwork, follow through (and what happens to "bad debts"?) is taken care of for them.  This convenience for users like me who have (and are) using the payment program translates into someone who needs to eat and pay his or her bills, and thus requires a paycheck every week from Logos.  So while it may not cost $5 for a printout with your name on it, that person reading, filling, manipulating and working with the information in that printout needs to eat.  Beyond that, I'll almost guarantee that $5 is much less than what a credit card would cost you.

 

I agree with you Thomas, this is a very good convience and the 5 bucks a month is not that big a deal. The interest on the credit cards are 8 times that or more per month.

Anywhoo I just ordered this along with the BDAG and the Hebrew Aramaic Lexicon; after watching all three videos...I realized I was learning some good stuff just watching. As I do not have any Greek or Hebrew language training, this will be a tremendous help to me...at least on how to use the tools related in my Scholars Library

Posts 1145
William | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2009 11:46 AM

Anthony Etienne:

I agree with you Thomas, this is a very good convience and the 5 bucks a month is not that big a deal. The interest on the credit cards are 8 times that or more per month.

Anthony,  A credit card would charge 40 dollars or more a month for this 160 dollar item?  You might want to check your figures again.

Respectfully

William

 

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