Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics

Daniel C. said:

Does LOGOS still sells Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics?

It seems that it is not being sold at this time.  See the discussion in this thread:

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/71015.aspx

It looks like it may become available again something later this year, but Zondervan has an annoying habit of initially releasing books in bundles.  We'll have to wait and see.

Check it out! We are now selling it again, but with boatloads of other popular Greek and Hebrew texts, at a fairly steep discount.

http://www.logos.com/product/32713/zondervan-biblical-languages-collection

Brandon Rappuhn said:

Check it out! We are now selling it again, but with boatloads of other popular Greek and Hebrew texts, at a fairly steep discount.

http://www.logos.com/product/32713/zondervan-biblical-languages-collection

Six months---hopefully we will not have to wait any longer than that for this bundle to be broken up.  I'm glad these books are in Logos, but Zondervan announcements lose their excitement by making things only available in bundles.  Most people will not want all of these books.

There does not seem to be any dynamic pricing for this bundle, yet. But someone who owns more existing works should confirm this.

Todd Phillips said:

Lee said:

There does not seem to be any dynamic pricing for this bundle, yet. But someone who owns more existing works should confirm this.

Isn't GGBTB the only one that Logos has published to date?  Also, if the resource is a new edition, Logos considers it a new work.

Logos does offer a discount for GGBTB.  Notice this statement from the product page: "Already have Greek Grammar beyond the Basics? Pre-order the collection without Greek Grammar beyond the Basics for $399.95 until June 20, 2013. Afterward, the price will return to $435.95.Click here to pre-order."

Brandon Rappuhn said:

Check it out! We are now selling it again, but with boatloads of other popular Greek and Hebrew texts, at a fairly steep discount.

http://www.logos.com/product/32713/zondervan-biblical-languages-collection

When this is released, will owners of the Galaxie version of Wallace's grammer be upgraded to the newer one for free?

Lee said:

Now why in Athens would anybody want to buy a whole boatload of grammars and workbooks?

Some guys would need it, maybe, but us hoi polloi ?

Well maybe if you are really into the languages. Also if you want to keep up your Greek and Hebrew after seminary. I'd love to have the Practico Hebrew Cards on Logos. I must admit it that this bundle has caught my eye. It is pricey but it looks like a great bundle.

Cheers,

ChelseaFC

Dave Moser said:

I'm really displeased with the direction Logos is moving with respect to bundles. It seems we have increasing numbers important resources locked away in prohibitively expensive bundles.

This is a step backwards for your customers.

It could be a publisher decision in some cases, rather than a decision by Logos marketing. We don't have all the details.

Lee said:

It could be a publisher decision in some cases, rather than a decision by Logos marketing. We don't have all the details.

Possible but unlikely. Logos' competitors don't seem to have this problem; so either Logos is terrible at negotiating with publishers or it's something Logos is doing intentionally.

Alain Maashe said:

Dave Moser said:

Lee said:

It could be a publisher decision in some cases, rather than a decision by Logos marketing. We don't have all the details.

Possible but unlikely. Logos' competitors don't seem to have this problem; so either Logos is terrible at negotiating with publishers or it's something Logos is doing intentionally.

[Y][Y]

Dave Moser said:

Lee said:

It could be a publisher decision in some cases, rather than a decision by Logos marketing. We don't have all the details.

Possible but unlikely. Logos' competitors don't seem to have this problem; so either Logos is terrible at negotiating with publishers or it's something Logos is doing intentionally.

It is a Logos policy, and they've commented on their reasons before. Often there are bundles that includes some very popular books, and some no-so-popular but still important books. If they split them up on pre-pub, only the popular books would make it into production. Bundling allows them to make more books.

Unix said:

I have to wonder what many of You think about: why they bundle several Biblical languages together? Do they think that students in long seminaries are the only current customers?

I do think it would have been nice to have a Hebrew bundle and a Greek bundle. This way if you aren't interested in everything you could have at least choosen your preferred language and it probably would of been at a lower cost..At the end of the day though, if you like it you buy it, if not then you'll wait till it's broken up to decide. It's really not that difficult, although this is the main points many people are making in the thread and that's okay.

Cheers,

 ChelseaFC

Tom Reynolds said:

If people are really not pleased with these bundles then they need to stop buying them - that's not happening so obviously the majority are voting with their credit cards and Logos would be silly to not continue this practice.

While I don't think that is it necessarily the majority of people, enough people are buying it to enable Logos (and Zondervan)  to continue the practice.

A practice that only makes sense when considered from a business perspective and cannot be claimed to be "for the benefit of customers".

Few here, need one package with resources targeted at different audiences and needs: those who only need "Greek tools", beginners, intermediate, and advanced students. 

It does not help that many of the resources are redundant and their inclusion in a single package does not make sense from a customer perspective. 

This is a reminder that the companies involved are businesses and not ministries (they know they have a few "hot" resources and they will milk it as much as they can).

I will stick with print volumes , from a stewardship perspective I cannot justify spending $400 for the 35 volumes when I only "need" 4-10 volumes. That and the fact that I would be encouraging the practice. 

Alain Maashe said:

from a stewardship perspective I cannot justify spending $400 for the 35 volumes when I only "need" 4-10 volumes. That and the fact that I would be encouraging the practice. 

[Y]

I wish they would offer the single volumes at a price similar to dead tree pricing (please apply generous academic pricing for those required to purchase) Then they could also offer the bundle at deep discounts for those who are interested in accumulating volumes. Some of us would prefer to pay $100-$150 for the 4-10 that we want and others prefer to spend the $400 for 35 (even though 3 of those "35 volumes" are only 4-page guides).

I realize that single volumes will become available in 6 months. So I will just wait for GGBTB to become available as a single volume purchase at that time. If I were taking a Greek II course this fall, I might not be able to wait for the bundle to break up.

Mitchell said:

True, but if they made it a habit (or even a policy) to split the bundles up immediately after publication, less people would go in for the pre-pub.

Deep(er) discounts on pre-pub bundles would prompt people to commit on them while lesser discounts on individual items would allow people who need a particular resource at a particular time (e.g. for a class) to buy just that item.

by finding the users who are motivated by urgency, commitments for high-demand products will allow Logos to recover their upfront investment quickly.

I decided to go with the bundle based on the substance of what's offered. How much is a couple seminary semesters of Biblical languages, before you buy the books? Most of what one does in school is read and study and memorize the textbooks information and then you go over it in class. You don't necessarily need all the classes, but you really do need the books. I realize it's a big chunk, but language study is a core skill for those who want to cut God's truth straight. 

Super Tramp said:

How come the "Upgrade" is being processed through Checkout instead of Pre-pub Quick Buy? Is the upgrade ready to download or are we paying in advance for a Pre-Pub? When is this expected to ship? When does my card get charged? Anyone know? I've got other Pre-Pubs in the pipeline and need to know.

I figured it all out everyone. The checkout is only the long version of the Pre-Pub order process. I always use Quick Buy so it looked different to me. If you order it you still have to wait on the ship date and your card is not charged until it ships. 

New thought: I have one good reason it might serve some well to order this "redundant content" bundle. Different students will have different results when using different learning materials. I myself have attempted to learn Hebrew 3x now with varying degrees of failure. Some of my homeschooled children will flourish with one text and struggle with another. If one does not work well I can try a different text and often overcome whatever issue they had with the subject. Depending on the pedagogical views of the texts in this bundle just about anyone should be able to get a handle on their target language. It is still cheaper than that "Rosetta Rock" software.

Mathew Voth said:

Has anything been said regarding how the audio & workbooks will be integrated within Logos? Will we just receive a bunch of mp3s, or will it go beyond that? 

Also, what will doing excercises in the workbooks look like?

Super Tramp said:

New thought: I have one good reason it might serve some well to order this "redundant content" bundle. Different students will have different results when using different learning materials. I myself have attempted to learn Hebrew 3x now with varying degrees of failure. Some of my homeschooled children will flourish with one text and struggle with another. If one does not work well I can try a different text and often overcome whatever issue they had with the subject. Depending on the pedagogical views of the texts in this bundle just about anyone should be able to get a handle on their target language. It is still cheaper than that "Rosetta Rock" software.

This bundle would be perfect for someone who:

(1) needs texts on Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic;

(2) is learning the languages (many of the texts are introductory level);

(3) needs these Zondervan texts for all three languages.

That's a whole boatload of assumptions. On the other hand, I can think of many people in different situations who would only need a few of these works. That's why these works were authored, published and sold separately in the first place. Unfortunately, they are not being sold at this granularity now.

Lee said:

This bundle would be perfect for someone who:

(1) needs texts on Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic;

(2) is learning the languages (many of the texts are introductory level);

(3) needs these Zondervan texts for all three languages.

 

That's a whole boatload of assumptions.

They are not far-fetched assumptions. I've heard the new trend is for doctoral candidates to have two foreign languages in addition to any classical languages. Multilingualism is very common among the higher educated. Familiarity with these languages is achieved with introductory texts like these. Fluency comes with further study.

This collection includes some of the most acclaimed texts in print. If your professor is not teaching from one of them, I'm sorry. And even if your education is limited to one pedagogical approach, you can bet your Greek professor is well versed in multiple texts. Aspire to surpass your teacher. 

Lee said:

Well ... I know what I need, and it sure ain't the whole boatload of it.

Someday my ship will come in. [:D]