Logos software, the best software available for the Christian 1%.........

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Robert Hayes | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jul 10 2013 4:51 PM

When I started saving my money for Logos, I really wondered if what I was buying was the best way for me to go....I already had a library with hundreds of books, I have Calvin’s commentaries, most of his sermons, the John Owen collection, dictionaries, etc,etc......I have almost every Bible translation on the market, and I have a ton of books on Kindle and I Books.......Whatever I thought I was buying turned out to be not quite what I envisioned. I guess it was the technology drug, that addicts many today....Just had to have it.....Well, when your just able to afford to get your foot in the door, at the bottom package level, what you bought isn’t that great.......Plus, its difficult to learn how to do all things you need to master this technological beast .....However, Logos will be glad to let you attend their training seminars for hundreds of dollars more. I settled for buying two instruction manuals.....You can't say these folks don't have a mind blowing unlimited assortment of products to aid your study, but what average Christian could possibly use such vast resources, much less afford to buy them.......  Then along comes Logos 5....Whoopee, I can upgrade to the next level above where I'm at now for just another $350 bucks.....What a deal..And how am I going to learn how to work this new product? Let me guess?..........And that's the issue isn’t it? ....You get sucked into this system and its a never ending money pit, if you tried to play along with the program...But that's the design isn't it?  That’s what these folks really exist for....Its a business and just as tenacious as the secular world in pushing their stuff.......Next thing you know there will be a Logos 6, then 7, and on towards infinity, and all you need to keep playing along is more and more cash.....I'm old enough to remember this game decades ago when one of the best racketeers in the business world was Kodak.....Every year, they just happen to create another camera, another gadget you couldn't live without...And on it went, year and year, until the product you once bought way back down the line.......Well, that was obsolete and eventually you had a problem even buying film for your dinosaur.....So I’m not a big Logos fan, which should be obvious..I can’t use it anymore without feeling like a big dufas, who bought into a game he can’t afford to play, and who feels he’s being played to keep up with the Christian Jones’s.....So, Im cutting my losses, and bugging out....I will not be upgrading to Logos 5, in fact I doubt seriously I’ll be using Logos 4 on anything resembling even an occasional basis....I came, I saw, I was disappointed and I’m gone.......At some point I suppose I will hit the delete process and remove it all together......On well, its was only mon....nnn.nee....y... Oh, and they don’t give refunds, once you buy.......well you live and learn. Problem is I’m an old fashioned book guy. I have to hold it my hand, spread them all around on the table and do things the old fashioned way....I guess the moral of my story, is that the grass may be greener on the computer side of the fence, but it isn’t really necessary.....In fact, your life, your study and even your sanity  can be a whole lot easier and less complicated without all this supposed high tech stuff...

Posts 1880
Philana Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 5:08 PM

Hi Robert,

I'm sorry you feel frustrated in using Logos. I understand it can be expensive to purchase resources. Since one of the place provided for to get help with Logos is the forums, did you have a specific question you need help with.

Have you had a chance to view Mark Barnes videos or joined one of John Fallahee's free webinars? Also you might check out the wiki. Before giving up on Logos at least give the forum community the chance to help you by asking some questions. Have you posted any here? I couldn't find any, but I know things can affect users post count. Please post some questions, I have found the community here more than willing to help.

In Christ,

Philana

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 5:14 PM

Sorry that You were so disappointed! Perhaps You would like to know how to get rid of it? Well, there is a forum hosted by a Logos user: http://www.stilltruth.com ... by looking at the bottom of the page on the blog You can find the Register -link. Then post an ad.

Yes, it's important to be aware of that there are disadvantages too, with going Logos.

One major benefit with Logos, is to be able to carry most of Your library with You on a laptop or tablet. Until after I had made my first big Logos order (a decade after my initial purchase) I still used to carry a load of books to the library in a shopping bag on wheels. Well, the bag quickly broke down.

I've tried to encourage myself buying printed matter too. During 2013 for example by buying a nice bookshelf.

What would really help me would be to get my other similar old desk from Helsinki city centre, to over here (over a sea and I don't have a drivers license other than for moped, slow cars and pedicab) where I live. That way I could put the other desk in a room, and thereby have two rooms with desks and be able to allocate my time much better between low-priority posting on the Logos forums, and more high priority studying and reading through Logos books and making Logos searches and using UBS Handbook NT (<--which I got used) on Accordance.

I'll always be using both printed matter and the two Bible study softwares.

So, my major problem right now is to actually sit down and do all work.

Yes, it has cost me a lot of money to use Logos, but on the other hand if I would have bought much more printed matter and much less Bible study software I would have been very disappointed at the coverage of my library.

What is addictive about Logos, is that it's too easy to spend:

Robert Hayes:
I can’t use it anymore without feeling like a big dufas, who bought into a game he can’t afford to play, [...] I came, I saw, I was disappointed and I’m gone.......At some point I suppose I will hit the delete process and remove it all together......On well, its was only mon....nnn.nee....y... Oh, and they don’t give refunds, once you buy.......well you live and learn. Problem is I’m an old fashioned book guy. I have to hold it my hand, spread them all around on the table and do things the old fashioned way

Aply!
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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 5:25 PM

It sounds like you are really frustrated Robert and I wish that there was something that could be done to help.

It is true that Logos is not an inexpensive program and it can be frustrating for some. On the other hand many of us have found Logos to be an amazing tool that has reignited a passion for for study of God's Word. I am one of those people.

I used to have a physical library of several hundred books that I seldom use now because I am so sold on Logos. It makes Bible study so much easier and more convenient. I have given a large percentage of them away so that they can benefit others. I realize that I am very fortunate to own Logos and the books within the program and I pray that I will be faithful with that which has been entrusted to me.

Thanks for expressing your opinion but I would encourage you to not be too quick to push that delete button.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 5:27 PM

Unix:
What is addictive about Logos, is that it's too easy to spend

This is very true and each of us must guard against greed - even in purchasing books.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 5250
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 5:56 PM

For me I find Logos invaluable for my devotional studies.

On the plus side:

+Huge assortment of resources

+Stable program

+Passage Guide

+Numerous interlinears

+Good customer service.

On the  down side:

-Expensive packages (no starting package under a hundred dollars).

-While it is relatively stable is requires a fast computer and lots of memory to use it quickly.

-Resources often must be bought in groups and often more expensive than other programs or ebooks.

-Not all resources are available for mobile use.

-Non evangelical resources find a harder time making it to publication.

That being said I can not imagine not having Logos, it may leave much to be desired in some areas but I personally do not regret many purchases on Logos (a few older works have seemed over priced and been less useful than I had hope, but on that same subject I could have requested refunds for any of them). 

-dan

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 6:54 PM

Robert,

I understand how you feel, and have had to get control of my Logos purchases as well.  It is addictive. 

I don't particularly blame Logos.  It is my own greed for books.  Just as I don't blame the ice cream company for making me fat.  As James 1:14 says, "But one is tempted by one’s own desire, being lured and enticed by it;"  It is me, it is me, O Lord.  Standing in the need of prayer, Not Baskin Robbins or Logos.  I love books and ice cream! 

For me the lust for Bible commentaries and books is not reduced if Logos disappears.  I lust after plain ole paper books. 

I will pray that the Lord will lead you in whether to continue with Logos or not.  He will guide you.  Let the peace of God rule in your heart, and blessings on you, brother.  And I would appreciate your prayers for me.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 7:57 PM

Robert, I beg (a little) to differ. I grew up as one of the 'preacher's kids'. Went to Bible college and dumped in all. Got a CPA, worked high tech, and never layed eyes on the Bible again. Waste of time.

That was until I retired and accidentally went to church (to meet someone else). But the pastor was like my Dad, so I decided to put the Bible to the test.

I was lucky Logos had several resources that I could test with to see if the original languages had a predictive time-shift, and if the authors matched the presumed time periods, along with consistency checks.

That was 7 years ago. I've got unbelievable access, and it cost me a bit less than my son's first year in college.

I'm truly thankful for Bob's easy-going nature (the CEO). And I complain too much.

Plus I use eSword too. 


Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 8:23 PM

Robert Hayes:
Its a business and just as tenacious as the secular world in pushing their stuff

Logos is a business not a charity so it is a case of supply and demand. You do not have to buy their product, and I for one am glad they continue to improve their product and expand into other areas. Your complaint would actually appear to be centered less on Logos and their practices and more on your desire to have a static unchanging life. Books do not change once you buy them, they become reliable friends and you become comfortable with them. If you find peace with books that you cannot find with Logos then you do need to make a change.

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 8:40 PM

They do have a VERY generous return policy, but if its been longer than 6 months, then I don't see it happening.

Secondly, perhaps my age is a factor here, but I save a considerably amount of time looking things up simply by virtue of the search button. No more opening a book, finding the index, finding the topic or passage, turning to the aprorpiate chapter and page, and then starting to read.

With Logos its search and done.

Of course, I went a little bigger than the smallest entry level package. I wanted to make sure I had all the features of 4 when I bought it (for the second time, the first time was way back under L2), and more recently when I upgraded to 5 I went with portfolio and for similar reasons.

Being relatively young, and having worked in the technology field most of my adult life, I never thought to take a seminar - i thought "I will just figure it out as I go".

Most of which I was able to do - collections, the guides, and so forth.

The forums helped me realize the importance of tagging (a process I may never fully complete:( ), and keeps me posted on free items.

I've gained over a hundred books from Vyrso, and dozens (if you don't count the thousands in Perseus) from Logos- all FREE.

Community pricing is the primary way I have been expanding my library. Commentary sets that will costs hundreds later, for only 30$.

Any time I have had questions the people here on the forum have helped me out. Or else a quick phone call to Logos HQ will do the trick.

So in the end, its all in how you use it, or if indeed you will use it.

For me, its a no brainer to continue investing in my Library. Pastor needs tools, and if for a similar price, they are time saving, than in my book thats even better.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 8017
LogosEmployee

Robert Hayes:

Then along comes Logos 5....Whoopee, I can upgrade to the next level above where I'm at now for just another $350 bucks.....

Next thing you know there will be a Logos 6, then 7, and on towards infinity, and all you need to keep playing along is more and more cash.....

When buying an upgrade, you are paying for new content. If you don't want the new content, the latest version of the software is always available for free; you can download it here: http://www.logos.com/installation

Additionally, if you have a mobile device, you can access your library from your phone or tablet; again, with a completely free app.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 10 2013 10:30 PM

Robert Hayes:
What a deal..And how am I going to learn how to work this new product?

Thankful for Logos 5 adding many search examples:

Thankful for lessons learned using Logos 4 still being useful in Logos 5.

My favorite Logos 5 and 4 feature is visual filter highlighting so can see range of verbal expression in Greek, English, and Spanish.  Thankful for Logos enabling the sharing of highlighting and visual filters for free.  Wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Extended_Tips_for_Highlighting_and_Visual_Filters#Examples_of_visual_filters

Robert Hayes:
I guess the moral of my story, is that the grass may be greener on the computer side of the fence, but it isn’t really necessary.....In fact, your life, your study and even your sanity can be a whole lot easier and less complicated without all this supposed high tech stuff...

Finding a relevant article, chapter, or illustration in thousands of books takes some time to open book(s), scan the table of contents and/or indexes or flip through pages, and then track which book(s) had helpful page(s).  Challenge is when a table is overflowing with open books or a stack of books responds to gravity.

Thankful for God's Peace that passes understanding.

By the way, computers are still quite stupid since they only do what they were told.  Compared to a human, computers can add 2 + 2 mucho faster.  However, a computer cannot appreciate the glory of God.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2278
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 11 2013 1:31 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Compared to a human, computers can add 2 + 2 mucho faster.  However, a computer cannot appreciate the glory of God.

Very nicely put, KS4J. Thank you!

Blessings

Big Smile

Posts 263
Greg Corbin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 11 2013 1:54 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with Bruce.  Logos has been life changing and ministry changing for me. However, it is not for everyone and there are many who cannot afford it. Others just feel that it is too complicated to learn to use - although from Logos 4 onward I feel that reluctance has less credance. I encourage everyone who can afford it to invest in Logos. For those who feel they cannot, I point them to free and less expensive Bible software options - some of which are excellent. The marketing that Logos does can get annoying, however the reason I have a theological library of 1450 books on my laptop is because they are a company who makes a profit. In my opinion, they do a great job of walking that tightrope of business and ministry. It's not as easy as we might think.

Posts 688
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 11 2013 3:01 PM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):

Robert Hayes:

Then along comes Logos 5....Whoopee, I can upgrade to the next level above where I'm at now for just another $350 bucks.....

Next thing you know there will be a Logos 6, then 7, and on towards infinity, and all you need to keep playing along is more and more cash.....

When buying an upgrade, you are paying for new content. If you don't want the new content, the latest version of the software is always available for free; you can download it here: http://www.logos.com/installation

Additionally, if you have a mobile device, you can access your library from your phone or tablet; again, with a completely free app.

Yes Robert, remember that you can download the free engine and keep everything that you already purchased.

Give the link Bradley gave you a try. Logos 5 is fantastic and you will not have to spend a cent.

Jerry

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Burning Bush Ministries

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