CP: Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War

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This post has 14 Replies | 1 Follower

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David Bailey | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jul 22 2013 9:34 AM

The definitive account of the second Peloponnesian War is found in the writings of 5th century B.C. Greek historian Thucydides.  You can read an overview of his work and place your bid on the Logos CP page for History of the Peloponnesian War.

Granted, Thucydides is not a household name, unlike Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates. Nonetheless, Thucydides produced one of the best, if not the best, historic writings from ancient Western civilization. His History gives us a rare glimpse of 5th century B.C. Greece through the eyes of one man who lived through the subject of his work. His engaging writing style, scientific chronicle of events, political insight, and keen observation of human nature and conduct, together make Thucydides required reading in classical and modern studies of foreign policy and international relations, political realism, leadership, military strategy, war, and ancient literature and history of the Western world.

Words from the History:

“Athenians: Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.” – Peloponnesian War, Book 5:89

“Pericles: …for grief is felt not so much for the want of what we have never known, as for the loss of that to which we have been long accustomed.” – Peloponnesian War, Book 2:44

“Pericles: …the real disgrace of poverty [lies] not in owning to the fact but in declining the struggle against it.” – Peloponnesian War, Book 2:40

“Cleon: …ordinary men usually manage public affairs better than their more gifted fellows. The latter are always wanting to appear wiser than the laws, and to overrule every proposition brought forward, thinking that they cannot show their wit in more important matters, and by such behavior too often ruin their country; while those who mistrust their own cleverness are content to be less learned than the laws, and less able to pick holes in the speech of a good speaker; and being fair judges rather than rival athletes, generally conduct affairs successfully” – Peloponnesian War, Book 3:37

Regarding Thucydides and his work:

“Thucydides, when read…the way he intended, is revelatory… [He] created a remarkable equivalence between his text and the war…The Peloponnesian War is his war; his text is the Peloponnesian War. But it is also every war, fought again and again, over and over again, endlessly…To read Thucydides is to understand what is happening as it happens, to identify some order amid chaos, to watch ethical conflict… play out in real time, to grasp the perverted meanings of partisan slogans…as they emerge, to recognize recurring patterns of behavior, of states and their political leaders alike, and to see, beneath the surface, the self-interest that actually motivates them. On the evidence of history thus far,…we will continue to find rationales for declaring war…continue to listen to ambitious, patriotic politicians…continue to invade faraway countries,…continue to debate the policies and politics of war, to be divided against ourselves, and we will continue to commit atrocities on and off the battlefield. For a creature of such a nature, Thucydides is strong medicine, necessary medicine. Read Thucydides, and tell a few others to read him too. It may not save civilization, but it is humbling and humanizing, and that is perhaps the most we can ask.” -- Hunter Rawlings, President of the Association of American Universities

“The experience that we were having in the world had been experienced by Thucydides in his world already…in fact, his present had been my future…Whatever chronology might say, Thucydides’ world and my world have proved to be philosophically contemporary.” -- Arnold Toynbee, British historian

“The history of Thucydides differs from that of Herodotus as a portrait differs from the representation of an imaginary scene…I have no hesitation in pronouncing Thucydides the greatest historian who ever lived.” -- Lord Macaulay, British historian and Secretary at War

There are several good English translations of Thucydides available, and the Loeb Classical Library edition is one of them.  Place your bid in CP so that we can get this outstanding resource in digital Logos format.

David

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 9:57 AM

Thucydides is indeed available via the Perseus collection.  I do wish it were available in Greek, however; I imagine this will eventually happen, particularly with the advent of the Noet project.  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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El Toro | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 10:07 AM

Mr. Micawber:

Thucydides is indeed available via the Perseus collection.  I do wish it were available in Greek, however; I imagine this will eventually happen, particularly with the advent of the Noet project.  

The Loeb Classical Library edition of Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War (8 vols.), currently available on community pricing, includes the Greek text. In fact, all of the Loeb Classical Library editions include either the original Greek or Latin text with an English translation. To see all of the Loeb collections currently available, simply search "Loeb" at Logos.com as I've done here. We have several additional collections to list, but any bids to help move these collections along would be appreciated!

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 10:12 AM

I see, I guess I sort of dismissed the Loebs in my mind because I thought they were just scans of the old books.  My bad.  Indeed, I think you may have corrected me before on this...lol.

I will indeed bid on those, thanks!    

A few questions:  

  1. So they are indeed tagged and fully functional?  Or, rather, will be?  
  2. And presumably we can choose to see only the Greek side?
  3. So how or will these work with the Perseus collection?  And/or the Noet project?  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 10:28 AM

Mr. Micawber:

A few questions:  

  1. So they are indeed tagged and fully functional?  Or, rather, will be?  
  2. And presumably we can choose to see only the Greek side?
  3. So how or will these work with the Perseus collection?  And/or the Noet project?  

Dear Monsieur Micawber: 

  1. Yes, they are indeed sir. 
  2. Yes, they are divided up into volumes.  
  3. No idea, Mike will have to answer this.  For example, I have Homer from the Perseus collection - so how does the Loeb editions ad anything to these texts?  Are these the texts that will be in Noet?  Is Noet a package of all of these texts?  Confused, yeah, me too sir!  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 10:30 AM

See this thread to show the differences between Loeb and Perseus - http://community.logos.com/forums/p/70545/490971.aspx#490971

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 10:54 AM

Ah, great, thanks Bruce.  Smile  

So when Noet is available, whatever we purchase NOW will be taken into account for the Noet package?  Assuming, that is, that these are the first volumes to make up the Noet collection?  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 11:16 AM

Mr. Micawber:

Ah, great, thanks Bruce.  Smile  

So when Noet is available, whatever we purchase NOW will be taken into account for the Noet package?  Assuming, that is, that these are the first volumes to make up the Noet collection?  

I'm not 100% sure but I believe I read that dynamic pricing will apply.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 12:29 PM

No one has asked, so I will ask this question.

How do you pronounce the guy's name in English?  Click here for the American pronunciation...maybe someone can provide an audio byte of proper pronunciation in ancient Greek? Wink

David

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 12:32 PM

David Bailey:

No one has asked, so I will ask this question.

How do you pronounce the guy's name in English?  Click here for the American pronunciation...maybe someone can provide an audio byte of proper pronunciation in ancient Greek? Wink

David

I can indeed.  In fact, I was going to do that for the Noet video, where the pronunciation of Logos is, well, not quite right if we're talking Classical Greek as traditionally conceived (Athens 5th century)

HOwever, I have no idea how to do this.  I can record something easily.  But then what?  LOL?  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 12:57 PM

If you are using Windows 7:

1.Connect your microphone to your computer's MIC port (or USB port if applicable)

2. Click on Start menu

3. Click on Control Panel, select Hardware and Sound, select Manage audio devices

4. Choose the Recording tab

5. Select the microphone device that you have connected (mine says 2-USB Audio Device Default Device)

6. With microphone device highlighted (selected), click on Properties

7. Select Levels tab and adjust your recording MIC level

8. Select Advanced tab

9. Under "Select the sample rate and bit depth to be used..." choose 1 channel, 16 bit, 11025 Hz (Dictation Quality)

10. Click Apply

11. In Start Menu search bar, type in the word "recorder" (without quotes) and select the search result called Sound Recorder

12. This launches the built-in Windows recorder tool for sound bytes in .wav .wma format.

13.  Record your pronunciation and save the recording onto your desktop

14. Listen to it for quality check.  File size should be small.

15. If needed, adjust recording MIC level (see above) and re-record

16.  Post the final recording onto the Logos forum thread.

Hopefully this will work for Windows.  If you use Mac, someone else will have to provide the steps.

David

Smile

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 2:19 PM

David Bailey:
16.  Post the final recording onto the Logos forum thread.

Hey David, thanks so much!  That was very kind of you.  The thing is, I record all the time on all sorts of mac devices - no problem there!  It was this^ part, how to post it, that I was wondering about!  Yeah, I'm kinda dumb with stuff like this!  LOL!  Big Smile

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 4:43 PM

When you are ready to attach a file to your reply post, use the paperclip icon shown:

On a Mac, how large is 15 second sound bite?

David

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 4:53 PM

Depends how I set the quality - I just did it with fairly high quality and 15 seconds was 1.2 MB. 

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 22 2013 5:26 PM

Mr. Micawber:

Depends how I set the quality - I just did it with fairly high quality and 15 seconds was 1.2 MB. 

My attached picture did not show up because, apparently, this forum does not support GIF format?

then, use the Browse button to find your audio file; and then select Insert.

That is how you attach a file to your post on this forum.

David

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