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Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 8:27 AM

Butters:
The translation that most scholars prefer is the Lattimore translation

Since I neither read nor speak Greek, I'd say to Logos company, bring Richmond Lattimore's modern translations of Homer, The Odyssey and The Illiad, into its inventory!

Smile

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 8:29 AM

Well, if Stephen Daitz likes Rodney Merrill's translation then that's saying a lot:  http://www.amazon.com/The-Iliad-Rodney-Merrill/dp/0472033980/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375197856&sr=8-1&keywords=Rodney+Merrill+iliad

His blurb says:

"Other competent translations of Homer exist, but none accomplish what Merrill aims for: to convey to the reader-listener in translation the meaning and the sounds of Homer, coming as close as possible to the poetry of the original. Merrill accomplishes this virtuosic achievement by translating Homer's Greek into English hexameters, a process requiring not only a full understanding of the original Greek, but also an unusual mastery of the sounds, rhythms, and nuances of English." 

One thing to keep in mind, however, is that meter in English is accentual; and relentlessly so; while Homeric meters are syllabic.  And there's quite a chasm betwixt the two.  

Also, of course, Homeric has pitch accents and many other phonemic qualities that give the language a unique sound that cannot be rendered at all in English.  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 8:38 AM

David Bailey:

Butters:
The translation that most scholars prefer is the Lattimore translation

Since I neither read nor speak Greek, I'd say to Logos company, bring Richmond Lattimore's modern translations of Homer, The Odyssey and The Illiad, into its inventory!

Smile

I think that would be an excellent choice David.  However, you can learn Greek!  Lots of peeps like me are eager to help too!  I love teaching because it helps me learn.  Smile

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 8:57 AM

Butters:

I think that would be an excellent choice David.  However, you can learn Greek!  Lots of peeps like me are eager to help too!  I love teaching because it helps me learn.  Smile

Once you learn a few basics of Greek, I would recommend joining in the discussion at http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum/ and / or http://textkit.com/.  I'm sure you will find a number of persons there who are willing to mislead, er …help you.  I'm, of course, joking about misleading, but you should be careful about listening uncritically to others who are nearly in the same boat.  Get a good grammar such as Smyth and check everything.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 9:10 AM

edit:  whatever.  lol.  Smile

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 9:24 AM

Butters:

Whom are you addressing George? LOL? Smile

I've been reading Ancient Greek since high school; and read Classics at Oxford; so I'm fairly proficient and would be a fairly good and reliable teacher methinks.

I've already mentioned Smyth and quite a few other resources. Smyth, by the way, is a bit advanced for beginners to "check."

Did you read the thread?  Wink

Of course I was talking about you [NOT].  Wink  I'm talking about others who frequent the sites.  B-greek has monitors who are fairly proficient in Greek (I was slated to be one, but I didn't like the new format so I told them I wasn't interested).  I'm not sure what the situation is on textkit.  Like you I began with classical Greek and Homer (Greek major)—actually first a grammar course using Crosby and Schaeffer with readings from easy authors such as Xenophon then Homer and Plato.  Additionally, I had a NT professor in cemetery who was a real bug about being able to read the Greek so I got a couple more years of Greek there.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 9:28 AM

George Somsel:
Of course I was talking about you [NOT].  Wink  I'm talking about others who frequent the sites.  B-greek has monitors who are fairly proficient in Greek (I was slated to be one, but I didn't like the new format so I told them I wasn't interested).  I'm not sure what the situation is on textkit.  Like you I began with classical Greek and Homer (Greek major)—actually first a grammar course using Crosby and Schaeffer with readings from easy authors such as Xenophon then Homer and Plato.  Additionally, I had a NT professor in cemetery who was a real bug about being able to read the Greek so I got a couple more years of Greek there.

ah, I see.  My bad.  I haven't spent much time on Textkit - actually, now that I'm moving into Koine/NT, maybe I'll spend some time at that B-greek site.  Starting Greek with Xenophon would be tough-slogging methinks.  

Are there discussion forums on NT Greek here on Logos? Or groups, or whatnot?  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 10:15 AM

Butters:
 Are there discussion forums on NT Greek here on Logos? Or groups, or whatnot?  

B-greek is a forum where questions can be posed and discussed.  Textkit has some groups which attempt to carry on conversations in Greek (Hence my avoidance of them).  Textkit also has a number of resources available.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 276
Greg F | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 11:20 AM

Please add me to those who would like to see Plato and Aristotle in Greek Loeb editions. In fact, I'm kind of surprised they didn't roll these out at the very first: if you're going to promote Noet using Plato and Aristotle, why wouldn't you make the effort to scan and tag the Greek too?  I imagine a lot of the target audience for the new offer are people who are less interested in antiquated public domain translations (both of which I bought in CP) than they are getting access to the original language tools. 

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 11:35 AM

"Tertullian's question is still ringing in our ears."  I probably missed out on that one (due to deep-sixing him, after his disaffection with the Montanists ... the last group to truly understand the early church).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 2:18 PM

Butters:

George Somsel:
Considering the fact that we are getting other Loeb editions of Greek authors, I would be surprised if this isn't coming down the pike.

That's what I've been thinking George.  I mean, it's not like their obscure or anything and are likely to be left behind.  And yet, and yet....why aren't they in CP yet?  Huh?

Have the translators been dead long enough for them to be in Public Domain?

I haven't checked, but I kind of assumed that the reason we got another edition was that Loeb isn't PD yet.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 3:12 PM

fgh:

Have the translators been dead long enough for them to be in Public Domain?

I haven't checked, but I kind of assumed that the reason we got another edition was that Loeb isn't PD yet.

Not in all cases.  E.g. Plato's Republic has a 2013 publication date.  They might be able to use its predecessor, however, since I'm sure this wasn't the first translation.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 138
Michael Grigoni | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 4:43 PM

At the time we began listing the Loeb collections, we decided to hold off on the Loeb editions of Plato and Aristotle because we had just listed the Jowett edition of Plato's dialogues, and the Ross edition of Aristotle's works. I'm glad to know that there's interest in the Loeb editions, however. We'll keep that in mind, although I believe both were a case in which not all of the volumes are in the public domain.

If others are interested in seeing these in Logos/Noet, please let me know in this thread!

Also, it's good to know that there's interest in Lattimore's translations of Homer. I'll see what can be done.

Posts 9578
Forum MVP
Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 5:00 PM

Thanks for chiming in and letting us know your thinking about this. I'm looking forward to seeing what you will produce in the future. Sounds exciting!

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 5:22 PM

Mike Grigoni:
Also, it's good to know that there's interest in Lattimore's translations of Homer. I'll see what can be done.

thank you Mike.

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 5:33 PM

Butters:
However, you can learn Greek!  Lots of peeps like me are eager to help too!

I've always wanted a liberal (arts) education. Gone are the days when the study of men (edit: and women) consisted of theology, mathematics, engineering, and the Western classics.

Learning Greek is an option, but unfortunately, I'm not able to invest in the time. Sad

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 5:51 PM

David Bailey:

Butters:
However, you can learn Greek!  Lots of peeps like me are eager to help too!

I've always wanted a liberal (arts) education. Gone are the days when the study of men (edit: and women) consisted of theology, mathematics, engineering, and the Western classics.

Learning Greek is an option, but unfortunately, I'm not able to invest in the time. Sad

It doesn't take much time—only 23 hrs/day.  You get to sleep for an hour.  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 30 2013 6:58 PM

George Somsel:
You get to sleep for an hour.  Wink

If I were as young as you, George, I might be able to survive that schedule.

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...or not.

Tongue Tied

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 31 2013 10:11 AM

Greg F:

Please add me to those who would like to see Plato and Aristotle in Greek Loeb editions. In fact, I'm kind of surprised they didn't roll these out at the very first: if you're going to promote Noet using Plato and Aristotle, why wouldn't you make the effort to scan and tag the Greek too?  I imagine a lot of the target audience for the new offer are people who are less interested in antiquated public domain translations (both of which I bought in CP) than they are getting access to the original language tools. 

Very well said Greg - this has long puzzled me too.  Smile

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

Posts 466
Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 31 2013 10:15 AM

Denise:

"Tertullian's question is still ringing in our ears."  I probably missed out on that one (due to deep-sixing him, after his disaffection with the Montanists ... the last group to truly understand the early church).

Well, he was the one who asked "What hath Athens to do with Jerusalem" and went on to argue that they have noting to do at all with each other; and that indeed philosophy was more or less not only incompatible with revealed scripture, but alas the work of demons.  

So, I'm not a big fan of his.  Smile

Nevertheless, the question itself has been a very fruitful one over the centuries. 

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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