It's here - Fathers of the Church

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Aug 1 2013 11:06 PM

a mere 127 volumes http://www.logos.com/product/33665/fathers-of-the-church-series

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 1 2013 11:18 PM

Good for history buffs. I thought that we had most of this material in the Church Fathers series listed here: http://www.logos.com/product/5771/early-church-fathers-protestant-edition See that I still have a lot to learn. I have Ante-Nicene, NIcene and Post Nicene Fathers, along with a sprinkling of some other Church history stuff.

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 1 2013 11:36 PM

Definitely a compulsory acquisition for anyone doing stuff with the Fathers...

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 1 2013 11:57 PM

Lynden Williams:
I thought that we had most of this material in the Church Fathers series listed here: http://www.logos.com/product/5771/early-church-fathers-protestant-edition 

http://www.logos.com/product/28902/patrologiae-cursus-completus-series-latina 221 volumes

http://www.logos.com/product/28903/patrologiae-cursus-completus-series-graeca 167 volumes

http://www.logos.com/product/28982/patrologia-syriaca 17 volumes

are the full thing.

Fathers of the Church has some overlap with Schaff but is a much more readable translation, different editing and some different materials.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 2:07 AM

Lynden Williams:

Good for history buffs. I thought that we had most of this material in the Church Fathers series listed here: http://www.logos.com/product/5771/early-church-fathers-protestant-edition

Apart from what MJ mentioned, this edition includes a lot of the commentaries the Church Fathers wrote on books of the Bible. Unfortunately, those were generally omitted in the Schaff edition, and are probably what are of most interest to Logos users. Compare the writings of Origen, to just give one example, in the two editions. This series is really a great addition to Logos!

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Butters | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 2:11 AM

That a treasure trove!  Thanks!  

“To love means loving the unlovable.  To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable.  Faith means believing the unbelievable.  Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton

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David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 7:06 AM

MJ. Smith:

Thanks MJ.

I would like it better if Logos had broken up the offering into smaller pieces.  I do not know how prices are determined at Logos for this massive set, but using the average $12.29 per volume:

Fathers of Ante-Nicene Era:  $282.50

Fathers of the Post-Nicene Era: $171.97

St. Augustine:  $368.50

Greek Fathers of the Nicene Era:  $429.90

Latin Fathers of the Nicene Era:  $307.08

-------------------------------------------------

I don't believe the prices above would reflect the actual prices if Logos were to offer the set in smaller chunks. Some chunks may be weighted more or less than others.  I would be interested in several of the volumes in this massive set, but not all.

David

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 7:11 AM

MJ. Smith:
a mere 127 volumes

[My bank account says:] Ouch!

And Gabe who has promised that the Ancient Christian Writers are on the way as well... And the rest of the Popular Patristics...

I think most of us will need to start cutting everything non-essential out of our budgets.Geeked

MJ. Smith:

Almost. Not everything we have today was available in Migne's days.

Fr Devin Roza:
this edition includes a lot of the commentaries the Church Fathers wrote on books of the Bible. Unfortunately, those were generally omitted in the Schaff edition

How ironic: the Protestant leaves out the Bible commentaries, and the Catholics include them. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?Devil

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 7:26 AM

David Bailey:
I would like it better if Logos had broken up the offering into smaller pieces.

They have:

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 7:51 AM

fgh:
I think most of us will need to start cutting everything non-essential out of our budgets.Geeked

Ramen noodles, mac & cheese, hot dogs, gruel, nail soup, Pablum.........electricity?

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 8:05 AM

Super Tramp:
Ramen noodles, mac & cheese, hot dogs, gruel, nail soup, Pablum.........electricity?

Yes, except the electricity.  Need that to run a computer and monitor to use Logos. Massive yard sale plus watches, jewelry, copper, and spare tire.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 8:10 AM

Super Tramp:

fgh:
I think most of us will need to start cutting everything non-essential out of our budgets.Geeked

Ramen noodles, mac & cheese, hot dogs, gruel, nail soup, Pablum.........electricity?

Do you sell your first born or grandchildren? Which will give more money over the long run. Smile

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 8:13 AM

I have the perfect solution, sell a body part. Maybe a Kidney and a piece of brain. I don't use all of it you know. Big Smile

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 8:18 AM

MJ. Smith:

I am happy to see this series. It is so much more accessible now that we have English translations. I doubt I ever learn Latin well enough to read the originals. The price seems steep until you consider the page count (less than $.04 per page.)

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 8:27 AM

Super Tramp:
The price seems steep until you consider the page count (less than $.04 per page.)

I agree the best price per page (and per volume) is the entire set. The smaller offerings are higher in price.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 1:35 PM

For those of you who aren't interested in the Greek/Latin, or who don't mind waiting for the Patrologias, the following seem to be completely included in the Fathers of the Church Series (127 vols.):

Uncertain:

The following do not seem to be included in the Fathers of the Church Series (127 vols.):

However, Jerome and most, possibly all, of Clement are in the ECF, and Bede and Boethius are available separately.

Anyone who can see any reason at all why I shouldn't cancel/return all of these to save up some money? Is there a vastly superior translation included somewhere?

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 2:17 PM

fgh, those works/collections of which you speak seem to be the Loeb editions.  These Loeb editions are small handbooks that are primarily for classicists with the original language on one side and a fairly literal english on the other - as in translations that are great for checking your work in translating/reading the original, but not the smoothest english either.  The Loeb series offers a fine collection of greco-roman works, and includes some influential church fathers, even if that is not their focus.

The Fathers of the Church series spoken of in this thread is probably the most complete translation of the Fathers into English.  The English is rather clear to read...  If I may give an example from some admittedly dense hammering out of trinitarian language, Basil Ep. 8... (yeah - I have made a personal book of this)

To those who insolently charge us with the doctrine of three gods, let this be said: that we confess one God, not in number, but in nature. Now, everything which is said to be one in number is not one in reality and simple in nature. But, God is universally confessed to be simple and uncompounded. Therefore, God is not one in number. What I mean is this. We say that the universe is one in number, but not one in nature, nor is it something simple. For we divide it into the elements out of which it was formed, into fire, water, air, and earth. Again, man is called one in number. For we frequently say man. But he is not something simple, since he is formed of body and soul. We likewise say the angel is one in number, but not one in nature or simple, for we consider the person of the angel as composed of substance with sanctity. Therefore, if everything which is one in number is not one in nature, and what is one in nature and simple is not one in number, and we say that God is one in nature, how do they bring into our idea, number, which we banish entirely from that blessed and spiritual nature? For, number pertains to quantity, and quantity is added as an attribute of corporeal nature. Doubtless, then, number is an attribute of corporeal nature. Further, we have believed that our Lord is the Creator of bodies. Therefore, also, all number indicates those things which are assigned to have a material and circumscribed nature, but ‘aloneness’ and ‘oneness’ are indicative of the simple and uncircumscribed substance. Accordingly, he who confesses the Son of God or the Holy Spirit as number or creature unconsciously introduces a material and circumscribed nature. And by a circumscribed nature I mean one not only encompassed by space, but also included in the foreknowledge of Him who is to lead it from non-existence into existence, and consequently one capable of comprehension by the understanding. Now, everything holy which has its nature circumscribed and its holiness acquired is not unsusceptible to evil. But the Son and the Holy Spirit are the fountains of holiness from which every rational creature in proportion to its virtue is made holy.

Yet we, according to the true doctrine, do not say that the Son is either like or unlike the Father. Each of these expressions is equally impossible, since ‘likeness’ and ‘unlikeness’ are used in speaking of qualities, and the Divinity is not restricted by quality. However, admitting the identity of nature, we also accept the identity of substance, and we reject compositeness, since He who in substance is God and Father has begotten Him who in substance is God and Son. From this fact identity in substance is proved. For, He who in substance is God is consubstantial with Him who is God in substance.


Basil Letters vol 1. (n.d.). (pp. 23–24).

It includes some helpful footnotes, but no where near the extensive annotation of Early Church Writers series Gabe has promised.  In general, the translations seem readable.  Some may quibble about using the latinate term "consubstantial" for a Greek father - it seems to be translating for an audience that knows and understand the theological vocabulary of the Western church...

SDG

Ken McGuire

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 3:55 PM

Thanks, Ken. I have several Popular Patristics on paper, and I have a decent idea what Loeb looks like, but if I've ever looked at the other series, it must have been 20 years ago, so your comments help.

I wonder if anyone has made a chart of what writings are available in which series.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 2 2013 5:13 PM

MJ. Smith:

Fathers of the Church has some overlap with Schaff but is a much more readable translation, different editing and some different materials.

Speaking personally ... thanks everyone!  I truly appreciate the comments.  Very helpful.  ST's analysis of the value proposition is a big help.  I think MJ. has provided a very useful summary.  I'm in ... and will save up for the eventual publication. 

Smile

Fr. Devin, Thank you for your ministry.  Please know that we pray for you and your service to our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus.

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