We're doing some data collection in Marketing, and I'd like to know 2 things:
1.) Why did you upgrade to Logos 5? (what feature, resource, or program was most compelling to you?)
2.) How did you hear about it? (email, blog, forum, or smoke signal?)
Forum. The price was right. It was so good, I could not beat it with a stick.
Heard about the upgrades on the forum.
I got Verbum Capstone for less then the price of one of the sets within it. A Set that was on my wish list for years but that was too expensive. With everything else being 'free' how could I resist.[Saw that at least one other got it for half what I did - Thank you for Dynamic pricing]
1.) Why did you upgrade to Logos 5? (what feature, resource, or program was most compelling to you?) 2.) How did you hear about it? (email, blog, forum, or smoke signal?)
Because beta testers reported here on the Forum that L5 truly was "faster" than L4.
I heard from the forum as well. I was really excited about the new features and the deals being offered.
Forum is where I heard about Logos 5. I upgraded for the new features as the upgrade libraries were not that appealing to me. I had L4 Platinum plus many resources.
Also heard via the forum. I upgraded because the engine upgrade was free. (Maybe that doesn't count, but I don't own any packages, just lots of books.)
Forum. I love to have the latest version, new features and new look, and of course -timeline
I'll be the bad girl. I upgraded based on what sounded like great new features. Other than the roots, search help, and a bit more speedy, L5 hasn't fully delivered. Mixed up timeline events, Bible Facts still 2009-tech with maps mixed up, Biblical non-Sense Lexicon, and clause search in final design, I'm looking forward to L6.
Upgraded, due to forum. That was also a disaster (the packages fiasco). Net: Lost my OL package but it's faster.
Ok, everyone. Go ahead ... I deserve it.
Upgraded because I like to always have the latest stable version, for new features, bug fixes, performance. I was beta testing every new release on L4, but have moved into a stance of waiting for stable releases now due to time constraints.
I heard about it through the forums.
Ask a question like that on the forum and the answer to #2 is probably going to universally be "through the forum".
Net: Lost my OL package
Can you explain what was "lost"? The Logos 5 (or 4) upgrade shouldn't have removed any licenses to resources you already owned. (Some LDLS3 features were not included in the initial Logos 4 release; are you referring to that?)
Being a beta tester I got a smoke signal[:D] and stuck with it because of Topic Guide, Referents, Root Search & Interface improvements. Clause Search and Bible Sense have still to deliver what they are capable of.
Based decision to upgrade on what was being said about v. 5 in the forum and on the desire to stay current with the software.
We're doing some data collection in Marketing, and I'd like to know 2 things: 1.) Why did you upgrade to Logos 5? (what feature, resource, or program was most compelling to you?) 2.) How did you hear about it? (email, blog, forum, or smoke signal?)
L4 Mac was a dismal failure (for me) - hoped L5 would be improved (it has); still doesn't seem as solid a program as Libronix.
forum
I upgraded because i felt 4 was a lost cause, it had so many issues for me that I figured 5 would more likely have the problems solved quicker than a legacy version (I do realize that 4 is still under active development for bug repairs). I have been very happy with 5 and currently have virtually no issues, I am pretty sure I first heard about it on the forums and while i initially balked at the idea of paying for the upgrade since in my mind I never got a fully stable working 4 but i decided to go for it. I do remember blog posts and emails on it too.
-Dan
Verbum Capstone for less then the price of one of the sets within it.
A great deal on Verbum Capstone was part of it for me too...
(I do realize that 4 is still under active development for bug repairs).
This brings up a question that has been nagging at me. Ray, perhaps you could find out an answer and post it here.
I honestly don't understand why Logos Development wastes the time fixing bugs in both the old source tree and the new one. L5 should be both the bugfix upgrade path and the new features upgrade path from L4. It is not an entirely new UI like L4 was over L3. It made sense to keep fixing bugs in L3 while active development had moved on to L4, but it does not make sense to keep fixing bugs in L4 with L5 being actively developed since it is basically the same software, with just some new features added. I don't know of any other major software developer who keeps fixing bugs in parallel in an older version of their software (except if it's to fix major security flaws, like Microsoft sometimes has to do with its older versions).
Yes, I know there are still a lot of L4 users who haven't upgraded yet, but that's their choice. They are obviously happy with it and not concerned enough about bugs in it to want to upgrade. So why waste your time fixing bugs for them?
Since the L5 engine is a free upgrade, there is seriously no reason why anyone should want to keep L4 if they are experiencing bugginess. They should just upgrade to the latest engine, not expect bugfix releases of L4. And if it ain't broke, and they're happy with it, then let them keep using their existing version of L4.
When is this duplication of effort going to stop so the developers can be more focused on the current platform and moving forward?
Why did you upgrade to Logos 5?
Didn't really think I had a choice at first. Once the minimal cross-grade was available, I upgraded. The advertising on some of the new features (timeline, etc.) looked pretty good, so I wasn't willing to upgrade the engine without the minimum resources to get the new features. There have been enough improvements, bug fixes, added features, and user-voice suggested implementations that the upgrade was worth it even if I hadn't gotten the nicely advertised new items like the timeline. No regrets.
To be more specific for your marketing folks: I upgraded initially because of the advertised new features, but in hindsight I'm more happy about the non-advertised improvements than those that were most featured in ad copy. Day-to-day use of the software has significantly improved, in my opinion.
How did you hear about it?
All over the place; probably first hinted at in the forums, then officially in a Logos email, IIRC. There wasn't quite as much racket when L4 moved to L5 as there was when L3 moved to L4. But it was hard not to notice.
I hope as marketers your folks realize that asking questions like this in a very limited and restricted population like the forums will introduce significant bias into your results. Until you get a random sample from your whole customer population, I wouldn't recommend you draw any hard lines in the marketing sand.
(I do realize that 4 is still under active development for bug repairs). This brings up a question that has been nagging at me. Ray, perhaps you could find out an answer and post it here. I honestly don't understand why Logos Development wastes the time fixing bugs in both the old source tree and the new one. L5 should be both the bugfix upgrade path and the new features upgrade path from L4. It is not an entirely new UI like L4 was over L3. It made sense to keep fixing bugs in L3 while active development had moved on to L4, but it does not make sense to keep fixing bugs in L4 with L5 being actively developed since it is basically the same software, with just some new features added. I don't know of any other major software developer who keeps fixing bugs in parallel in an older version of their software (except if it's to fix major security flaws, like Microsoft sometimes has to do with its older versions). Yes, I know there are still a lot of L4 users who haven't upgraded yet, but that's their choice. They are obviously happy with it and not concerned enough about bugs in it to want to upgrade. So why waste your time fixing bugs for them? Since the L5 engine is a free upgrade, there is seriously no reason why anyone should want to keep L4 if they are experiencing bugginess. They should just upgrade to the latest engine, not expect bugfix releases of L4. And if it ain't broke, and they're happy with it, then let them keep using their existing version of L4. When is this duplication of effort going to stop so the developers can be more focused on the current platform and moving forward?
I agree with you on this Rosie.
1) through the forums (as a beta tester)
2) I always go for a new version if available. There is always something good in the newer UI, bug fixed, some new features and - yes, also new databases.
I upgraded from L4 Platinum to L5 Biblical Languages. It's one of the most cost effective ways to get extra resources. The resources that most attracted me were the LSJ and NA28. However, I had my eye on Spicq's TLNT too.
[quote]
Logos.com website
I was able to upgrade to Logos 5 through becoming a Knox Theological student. They offered the full library along with the cost of tuition. I would have probably upgraded nonetheless, but it was nice to get a bigger library and the functionality of Logos 5 at a discounted rate.
CL
Why did you upgrade to Logos 5? Didn't really think I had a choice at first. Once the minimal cross-grade was available, I upgraded. The advertising on some of the new features (timeline, etc.) looked pretty good, so I wasn't willing to upgrade the engine without the minimum resources to get the new features[...] To be more specific for your marketing folks: I upgraded initially because of the advertised new features, but in hindsight I'm more happy about the non-advertised improvements than those that were most featured in ad copy. Day-to-day use of the software has significantly improved, in my opinion. How did you hear about it? All over the place; probably first hinted at in the forums[...]
Didn't really think I had a choice at first. Once the minimal cross-grade was available, I upgraded. The advertising on some of the new features (timeline, etc.) looked pretty good, so I wasn't willing to upgrade the engine without the minimum resources to get the new features[...]
All over the place; probably first hinted at in the forums[...]
I agree,
although there are some features in L4 that I miss (e.g. links from the exegetical summaries) and also I miss one resource that works in Libronix 3 in my old computer.
Was a beta tester for L5. Wanted the upgrade because of the speed/performance improvements over L4 Mac. Also wanted Clause Search & Bible Sense Lexicon. The Diamond upgrade also included almost everything in my Wish List for a very good price. I went through the "New to You" resources and added the prices of the items I would use. When that total reached 300% of the cost of the upgrade, my credit card started to throb in anticipation [8-|]
It was difficult to see the smoke from over 3,000 miles away, but I did not hesitate after smelling the smoke [:D]
I honestly don't understand why Logos Development wastes the time fixing bugs in both the old source tree and the new one
Aren't users of XP and Leopard (Mac OS 10.5) locked out of L5? Perhaps Logos has consideration for those who cannot upgrade for other reasons.
I upgraded because I wanted the newest release, and if I'm not mistaken, there were deep discounts available at the time, which I didn't want to miss out on. I knew I would want to upgrade eventually, so launch time discounts helped me make the decision. I also like the new features and speed. There were also some resources that I wanted, such as the Black's New Testament Commentaries, that were included in the package I chose (Gold).
I heard about it on the forums, as I browse through here at least once a day.
1.) Why did you upgrade to Logos 5?
Since I use Logos regularly, I wanted to have the new features. In practice, I've not found them useful often.
2.) How did you hear about it
Forums.
As a committed long term user would upgrade anyway.
More interesting question is why I chose the upgrade path I did? Answer is that an upgrade that I had been considering was made much more attractive financially.
Yes, I know there are still a lot of L4 users who haven't upgraded yet, but that's their choice
I suspect that some would argue that it is not their choice because Logos 5 does not work with XP, see comment from the support FAQ below...
A: Logos 5 uses a new version of Microsoft's .NET Framework, or "Mono" for Macs. You must have Windows Vista SP2+ or Apple OS X 10.6+ to use these frameworks. You should contact your computer manufacturer to see if your computer qualifies for any Operating System upgrades in order to download Logos 5, or use Logos 4 instead.
Personally I think that it reflects well on Logos that they have shown a high level of commitment to version 4, and 3 for that matter, but I would agree that once XP is no longer supported it would be a logical time for Logos 4 to be 'stabilised'.
I upgraded because I received a good price on the package I was seeking and I always upgrade whenever.
I believe I heard about it through email and the forum. Glad I did.
I honestly don't understand why Logos Development wastes the time fixing bugs in both the old source tree and the new one Aren't users of XP and Leopard (Mac OS 10.5) locked out of L5? Perhaps Logos has consideration for those who cannot upgrade for other reasons.
If I understand Rosie's argument right, she doesn't suggest quitting Logos 4 availability, just the parallel work on bugs etc. Or am I mistaken?
I honestly don't understand why Logos Development wastes the time fixing bugs in both the old source tree and the new one. ... When is this duplication of effort going to stop so the developers can be more focused on the current platform and moving forward?
I honestly don't understand why Logos Development wastes the time fixing bugs in both the old source tree and the new one.
...
I think you (dramatically) overestimate how much time we're spending on Logos 4.x. There have only been two minor releases this year (4.6b and 4.6c), and it's been six weeks since the last 4.6c SR. The amount of time spent by Logos development on Logos 4 is very small.
And source control systems may have improved a lot since you last used them. We use git, and fixing a bug in the Logos 4 branch and merging it into the Logos 5 branch is trivial.
So why waste your time fixing bugs for them?
There are some Logos 4 customers who literally cannot afford to purchase an upgrade to Logos 5 or to buy a new (non-XP) computer to run the free Logos 5 update. They still deserve to have bugs in Logos 4 fixed. (We're not going to keep polishing Logos 4 until all the bugs are fixed, of course. But some bugs need to be fixed.)
Or, some customers have purchased a Logos 5 upgrade, but still have a Windows XP notebook that run Logos 4 that they sync with. We have chosen to invest time in Logos 4 to keep sync working for that customer. (Logos 4.6c was essentially all about sync v2: http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.6c.)
Finally, without minor maintenance releases, Logos 4 wouldn't be able to read some new resources sold at logos.com. It's cheaper to release small updates to Logos 4 that allow it to read new books, than to develop a system that tracks which resources are not Logos 4 compatible, displays that on the website, but still have to field customer service calls from Logos 4 customers who didn't read the fine print and bought the resource anyway.
If you are still using Microsoft XP than you can't upgrade to L5. There are some like my daughter who would like to upgrade to L5, but until she finishes college she can't afford a new computer. Logos is still restricted by the successes and failures of Microsoft.
Huh? I thought L4 ran on XP? Plus defective product is still defective (presuming continued XP-ers support).
Maybe we're saying dump the XP-ers so we can get more 'stuff'!
EDIT: Just saw Wayne's entry; agree.
-----
Bradley ... I was referring to the label. Like on our Eurovan it says 'Camper'. That's major, major when passing another Eurovan.
Ah. Sorry, can't help you there.
I upgraded to L5 primarily because of the additional resources available at a considerable discount (a number of these resources were on my wish list). The new databases were also a factor in my decision to upgrade.
Via the forum.
I heard about the upgrade from the website and the forums. I upgraded in order to have all of the new features. I also received almost 500 new resources by upgrading from L4 Platinum to L5 Platinum. Even without factoring in the new features, I paid less than $1.50 per (new) resource.
I'm part of the Logos (only?) crowd & have been since 1994. So I heard about L5 via email, forum, & probably smoke signal. ;-)
Why'd I upgrade? I didn't at 1st for L5 itself, until the minimal crossgrade pricing was announced. At that point, I did cost tradeoffs to try to get back to Platinum (where I'd been in L4), but the price point packaging excluded me. Best I could afford was a combined crossgrade + upgrade to Silver.
I can only afford to dedicate an average $300/year for books (= Logos, excepting only 2 books, the last 5 years) out of my TOTAL budget for ALL professional expenses.
Hope this helps.
Rosie People who have bought 4 deserve a program that functions and not everyone who has 4 can upgrade to 5, yes it is a small group, but they are out there.
-dan
Thank you Bradley. I appreciate your explanation.
Upgrading the software is a no-brainer if your OS supports it (it's free!). The best L5 features are the small, free ones, in this order::
Of the paid features, I use the the Sermon Starter Guide more than any other paid feature (which I thought I would hate, but actually love)!
Why did I pay to upgrade from L4 Portfolio to L5 Portfolio? Dynamic pricing was a key factor. I really feel Logos should make more of this. When a product switches to dynamic pricing, your sales reps ought to be emailing customers that have that product in their wishlist, and telling them that they'll now get a discount because of part owning products. I've bought several packages recently simply because they had dynamic pricing.
I upgraded because of the new data sets and functionality. I heard about the upgrade on the forums.
Soli Deo Gloria,
Randy
And Maybe it was the XP-ers that kept Logos alive so you could have what you have.
And Maybe they spent so much on Logos in the XP days [and since then as many new resources still run on L3 and L4] that they can not afford to buy a new machine.
[[Disclaimer: I use Logos 5 / Verbum but I still have L3 up and running on an XP machine [I don't use it very often]]]
I've often wondered the same thing.
1) I updated because of root searching and some of the other new tools. I upgraded my package because what was included was stuff I really wanted and the price was unbeatable.
2) I heard about this through the beta program, which I track on these forums.
I heard about it via the forums.
I upgraded for the new features and believing that newer means better efficiency, not for new resources
In the crossgrade, I was not happy to go from L4 Platinum to not even having all the resources in L5 starter. I wonder what that does for an upgrade one day to L6. As it stands now, I forget about the packages in the future and just keep doing cross grades from now on.
1. Upgraded to Logos 5 for the new functions, Clause Search and others. Also the Minimal Crossgrade to have the new data sets. And last some new resources,
2. By the Forum and www.logos.com
1) For the new resources; nothing specific, sum total
2) Website first, then followed the forums.
I hope the upgrade to Logos 6 includes a bunch of resources [:D]
I didn't upgrade to L5 for the same reasons I didn't upgrade to L4 - there wasn't anything I wanted as it relates to the resources (they were/are not my theological cup of tea). I did get and use the free engine.
Forum
1)
I had bought the Good News Translation separately before L5 came out, but was able to return it. The pastoral material wasn't of value to me and still isn't. I will be studying theology and Gk in uni but it's improbable that I will go to ministry because that seems so demanding. Things like...
...added value. Hindsight: I save maximally $100, probably less since I would not have bought many of the books included in Bronze for the uni classes.I don't have the Minimal Crossgrade. I wish that when L6 and L7 come out, owners of L5 Bronze and Silver who don't have the Minimal Crossgrade won't be forced to buy it in order to upgrade to L6 and L7 whether choosing a base-package or an L6 or L7 Minimal Crossgrade!
2) I used to go to http://community.logos.com and noticed there was a new forum. Nowadays I go directly to http://community.logos.com/forums/77.aspx
