What do you love most about L4?

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This post has 16 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 407
Ray from Faithlife | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Sep 5 2013 4:22 PM

We want to create the best products we possibly can, and we'd like to know: what features, resources or programs do you love about L4 that are causing you to balk at upgrading to Logos 5?

RD3

Logos Marketing | ray.deck@logos.com

Posts 47
JD | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 5 2013 7:53 PM

L5 cons:

1. Hundreds of reported bugs, including the incorrect wheel of BWS and some font limitations (if true).  That's unacceptable from an academic point of view.

2. Inability to have a mirror copy of L5 on XP machines.

L4 pro:

3. L4 runs like a Ferrari on a logical eight-core hyper-threading processor and 128GB SSD.

L6 "what if":

5. Honestly waiting for L6 that should be a professional 64-bit app that sells itself instead of selling sermons...Big Smile

Posts 1088
William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 6 2013 5:40 AM

Janusz Dubiel, BA, BTh, MA, MATh:

L4 pro:

3. L4 runs like a Ferrari on a logical eight-core hyper-threading processor and 128GB SSD.

It would be nice if there was a way for you to test and go back if you didn't like L5 (maybe there is, I'm not sure), but from my personal experience--and that of many others on this forum--L5 is a performance improvement over L4. I was getting frustrated with the performance of L4 on both of my machines (an older Mac and a newer Windows machine)--to the point that I loathed having to do anything substantial (e.g. change scripture references in linked panels). But now I'm a happy user of L5 on both of those machines.

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 6 2013 5:58 AM

RayDeck3:
what features, resources or programs do you love about L4 that are causing you to balk at upgrading to Logos 5?

To be honest if I had realised that the Learning Hebrew and Greek DVD set would be rendered obsolete by the upgrade I may not have bothered. I guess this means that I miss the resources that the methodology taught in the DVDs rely on. Given that this product is registered to my account I think, with hindsight, that the Logos 5 installation routine should have included a warning.

My major criticism of the Logos upgrade process is that there tends to be a lack of clear information on what is changing and the implications. I know for example that handouts are not part of 5 or new users but remain available for those of us who upgraded. This was much worse when we went from 3 to 4 where core features were missing but at least 3 and 4 could coexist on a single system/user account.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 411
Ken Shawver | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 6 2013 2:49 PM

I have done every major upgrade up to L4 since I started using Logos. I went through the growing pains of L4, spent time as an Ambassador (in a flat economy) tauting L4 even with it's issues knowing Logos would iron them out.  I thought about upgrading several time upgrading my L4 Platinum but none of the base products have resources that I would use - regardless of the price per book breakdown - and can't see spending the cash on a bunch of items I am not necessarily interested in or would use. As for the Minimal Crossgrade, I don't expect it for nothing, but again there is insufficient resources for me to even justify my "special" price for the crossgrade. Considering that L5 has the Sermon Starter included (again) after it was missing from L4 and I purchased it when I was using Libronix (what I refer to as L3)...I feel a bit burned by the whole process.

Not to say I don't think Logos is great, to me it is and is invaluable...but I am being more expense minded and yes more leary about upgrading to the latest and greatest. I feel burned and a bit jaded as to the release...especially since the L4 Minimal Crossgrade was less than L5.

So to answer the question...What do I love most about L4? I have it setup to the way I work. I am comfortable with it. It's paid for, and I don't think L5 is in my best interest from a financial standpoint. If Logos had provided some of the items we had had on L3 prior to L4 and then lost...along with a more reasonable crossgrade. I might take that step. Not at the present time.

In Christ,

Ken

Dell Studio 1555; 15.6 True Life LCD; Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 2.20 GHz, 2M Cache, 800 MHz FSB ; 500GB 5400 HDD; 8GB RAM, Win 10, Chrome 70

http://wiki.logos.com/

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 6 2013 3:12 PM

  

RayDeck3:
... do you love about L4 that are causing you to balk at upgrading to Logos 5?

L4 hasn't completed an Index cycle in years, i see indexing problems are still present on L5.

Got tired of wading through the development cycle with L4 and am not interested in working through the cycle with L5. i prefer to use L4 to do actual study, rather than fuss with code that may or may not work.

i am poor and don't want to invest more $ in L5 at this point. Eventually hope to get a faster PC with the $ so that L4 will Index properly (right now it is also a matter of principle, L4 is the only app which crashes and does not Index. Got 2 versions of Office, Compilers, DVD generation tools, and many other high-end apps which run fine on this old Dell laptop. It is a shame that L4 needs so much horse-power.)

Also was turned off by the new packages which came out with L5.

Bottom line: i need to be busy studying God's Word and not chasing after other things.

QLinks, Bibl2, LLR, Macros
Dell Insp 17-5748, i5, 1.7 GHz, 8G RAM, win 8.1

Posts 9194
LogosEmployee

Ken S:

Considering that L5 has the Sermon Starter included (again) after it was missing from L4 and I purchased it when I was using Libronix (what I refer to as L3)...I feel a bit burned by the whole process.

The Sermon File Addin was implemented via Personal Book Builder in Logos 4. There are no plans to bring it back in the same form it existed in LDLS3. In 4.6c and later, you can import your existing LDLS3 Sermon Files into Logos 4. 

Sermon Starter Guide (in Logos 5) is unrelated.

Posts 411
Ken Shawver | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 6 2013 9:05 PM

Bradley, thanks for the clarification, unfortunately  it may be unrelated it was projected as such at least from my vantage point. Also as for the Personal Book Builder being the vehicle that the Sermon File Addin was implemented through in L4 is less than obvious and I will have to look at it to see if its functionality is equivalent.

Thanks for the feedback.

In Christ,

Ken

Dell Studio 1555; 15.6 True Life LCD; Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 2.20 GHz, 2M Cache, 800 MHz FSB ; 500GB 5400 HDD; 8GB RAM, Win 10, Chrome 70

http://wiki.logos.com/

Posts 9194
LogosEmployee

Ken S:

Also as for the Personal Book Builder being the vehicle that the Sermon File Addin was implemented through in L4 is less than obvious and I will have to look at it to see if its functionality is equivalent.

There is some information on how to create a Word Document with Sermon File features here: http://wiki.logos.com/Sermon_and_Illustration_Support

If you have LDLS3 Sermon File documents, you can type "import sermon files" into the Command Box in Logos 4/5 to convert those to the new Word document Sermon File format, which could provide a template for entering new sermons.

Posts 1669
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 7 2013 7:14 AM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
If you have LDLS3 Sermon File documents, you can type "import sermon files" into the Command Box in Logos 4/5 to convert those to the new Word document Sermon File format

I have seen this mentioned in the Forums and I have run that command  BUT I cannot "find" these newly "converted" files.

I would love to be able to look at them in order to learn further insights into Sermon File syntax etc

I am assuming that these are newly created .docx files?

-Have all of them been put into a "special" folder some place?

- or were they added to which ever folder contained the original [Word .doc "rtf] files? OR were the originals completely transformed so that they are no longer doc/rtf files?

Sorry to have to ask for such detailed instructions?

Regards, SteveF

Posts 9194
LogosEmployee

SteveF:

I would love to be able to look at them in order to learn further insights into Sermon File syntax etc

I am assuming that these are newly created .docx files?

-Have all of them been put into a "special" folder some place?

"import sermon files" will read the files in "Documents\Libronix DLS\SermonFile", convert them, and write them to "Documents\Imported LDLS3 Sermons". It will also create one or two new entries in the Personal Books tool in Logos 5: "Sermons of [Your Name]" and "Illustrations of [Your Name]".

(Note that LDLS3 supported a custom documents path through the Power Tools addin. "import sermon files" does not support this custom path; the files have to be in "Documents\Libronix DLS\Sermon File".)

SteveF:

- or were they added to which ever folder contained the original [Word .doc "rtf] files? OR were the originals completely transformed so that they are no longer doc/rtf files?

Are you referring to Word documents that were imported into the LDLS3 Sermon File feature? If so, these are not read by "import sermon files".

If you're still having problems, please create a new thread to discuss the issue and attach a log from running the "import sermon files" command.

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 7 2013 9:45 AM

I know a couple of pastors who did not go L4 --> L5, mainly because the cost-benefit ratio did not attract them (their views). From what I observe, they have already established a comfortable and effective work routine.

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 7 2013 10:14 AM

RayDeck3:
we'd like to know: what features, resources or programs do you love about L4 that are causing you to balk at upgrading to Logos 5?

I dare say there are two main reasons why people don't update:

  • They can't (old computer/OS).
  • They still don't know that it's free (because you bombard them with so many ads for expensive upgrades, that they never see the few, well-hidden, mentions of the free engine). 

Ken S:
I don't think L5 is in my best interest from a financial standpoint.

It's free. Smile

Lee:
I know a couple of pastors who did not go L4 --> L5, mainly because the cost-benefit ratio did not attract them

It's free for them too.Smile

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 7 2013 10:31 AM

fgh:

Lee:
I know a couple of pastors who did not go L4 --> L5, mainly because the cost-benefit ratio did not attract them

It's free for them too.Smile

It's their view. Though I think they knew that there was some kind of Logos 5 upgrade.

I do agree that the ad campaign for Logos 5 left some with a wrong impression.

Posts 2040
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 7 2013 11:05 AM

I've been a customer for a very long time, but my interest wasn't sparked until March 2012. A reason being that I was an Atheist for quite a while in-between, another reason was that when I became Christian again a little more than 2 years ago now I wanted only printed matter.

I'm not happy with the L5 base-packages and the Catholic libraries/base-packages. I had Original Languages Library and L4 Catholic Foundations. Upgraded to Bronze and Verbum Basic International.

I gave away L4 Catholic Foundations and Verbum Basic International to a poor person who is living on a disability income and has $7 left each month.

I tried out L5 Silver twice. And Verbum Foundations International once. One resource in it stands out in Silver as especially useful and expensive to get individually: The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, rev. ed. ($134.95, was $150 the previous time I looked).

The L5 Minimal Crossgrade has too many datasets. I don't desire it. It's pretty expensive. I don't think Logos can produce such a thing for a lower price, I just think Logos should lower the ambitions in L6 and put more effort into other things.

I miss the setting "Use Deuterocanonicals" in L4. I did set it when I still had the chance, so I guess it's still set.

The base-packages are the weakness of L5, all of them. I'm not very content with what I have, and even though what I've added sums up to many times more than the price of the base-packages I have, I'm not content with Bronze. I don't think any of the base-packages are good, and they are not good value as they contain a large part of secondary, less important, or low value books, and too much of things like commentaries, Bibles, Church History and interlinears. I would like an Anabaptist base-package. Have a look at: Do you use any other software besides Logos? to see what my areas of interest are.

I wouldn't mind if Logos drops the dynamic pricing for most base-packages much like how it used to be in L4. The first time when I saw the prices on the L5 base-packages I was baffled, they were so expensive! I told my girlfriend that I was glad that I got in while the L4 base-packages were available. That was just a few days after they were released. Later in November I started to think that the prices were OK since I had made a calculation that I would save a little if upgrading compared to getting the interesting resources individually. But since then I have noticed that I don't use all those "interesting resources" and some which I wished I no-longer want and even passed on them when, some of them were even on sale.

I am buying the Catholic Practicum DVD to see if there are any resources I would want, and then order them individually. I'll also get much needed instructions how to use the software. I'm not interested in any of the other instruction videos, and I wouldn't attend Camp Logos in person even if it was over here. A competitor also issues instruction videos with resource reviews added, but as I feel somewhat familiar with the "Protestant" resources offered by Logos and mainly look for new releases, I have not been interested at all to order that DVD, even when it was on a sale.

In my judgment, Verbum is a failure. It consists almost solely of very dated items. Many things that will probably be included in it can be purchased in advance on Community Pricing. One example of an improvement, is that I think RSV-CE should be removed and replaced with the RSV. See more about this in: NRSV with apocrypha, anglicised. Verbum should also drop:

King James Version: Cambridge Paragraph Bible
The New King James Version Bible (NKJV)
The New Living Translation (NLT)
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

The "Protestant" base-packages should drop: Douay-Rheims Bible, NCB, YLT.

I'm not pleased with the personalized offer emails! They seem to be taking into account previous, cancelled, pre-pub orders (for example Anabaptist and Mennonite Studies collection which I cancelled in early April 2013) and tells me that it can be pre-ordered. Even though I've taken the survey that was supposed to improve the offers, I still get a lot of offers such as The Works of Hegel (13 vol.). I didn't tick being interested in theologies. I also get offers such as The Daughters of St. Paul Counseling and Spiritual Growth Collection (12 vols.). I don't have many Catholic books in Logos. I can think of two that I have: Post-Reformation Catholic Thought and Piety, and The Ignatius Bible Second Catholic Edition. Is it taking into account the pastoral resources that I have from Bronze? I don't think I have almost any counselling or pastoral resources owned or in the wishlist.
Maybe the system is supposing that I want counselling products thinking that I'm a pastor or preacher since I've ordered so much? Or Logos sells those products easily or has a high profit margin on them? But when thinking about this the reason might be that I was somewhat specific when I filled out the survey.
One improvement has been that commentary offers have stopped since I didn't tick that in the survey. I do buy and read commentaries from time to time, I just don't want that many offers and I think Logos is focusing too much on commentaries. And some of them are as printed matter and one of them will be in another Bible Study software (just getting one volume from a set, cheaper than in Logos).

Which reminds me of the phone offers which I get sometimes when calling sales with a purchase. They seem to basically offer only commentaries and base-packages. I understand that Logos has high profit-margins on those so they have to try to sell a lot of those. It's just a bit frustrating. It's exciting to call. I'm just disappointed about the offers.

Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 11

Posts 411
Ken Shawver | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 8 2013 11:04 PM

fgh,

I have been using Logos long enough to know that the engine is and has always been free. That was NOT my point. I was fortunate to be part of the L4 Beta group, and initially I was in shock as were many at the changes from Libronix. After a good deal of work I saw the benefits and improvement. With that said, I am not disputing that their are additional improvements in L5, but the issues are that the marketing message for moving was not well developed to create a clear picture. Also, the changes to the base packages did not provide me any incentive to move to one of them. Although buying a base package is an awesome way to get many resources at a very good price per book, all they would have done was to provide a large number of resources I have no use for (since I am selective as to my studies).

Also the crossgrade was higher than on the L4 release and was also a factor.

 

Bradley was kind enough to tell me how I could get the equivalent of the Sermon File Addin from L3 and make use of it in L4. The problem I still see is that the work around is not really that sophisticated as I would expect for Logos. But that is a personal opinion and may only be mine.

Just because the new engine is available and the engine is free does not mean one needs to jump on the band wagon to have the latest and greatest.

In Christ,

Ken

Dell Studio 1555; 15.6 True Life LCD; Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 2.20 GHz, 2M Cache, 800 MHz FSB ; 500GB 5400 HDD; 8GB RAM, Win 10, Chrome 70

http://wiki.logos.com/

Posts 5495
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 9 2013 2:29 AM

What do I love most about L4?

That's easy...October 2009.

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

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