Tim Challies Article - Is It Time To Move To Logos?

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JOSHUA DAVIS | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Sep 18 2013 6:30 AM

http://www.challies.com/articles/is-it-time-to-move-to-logos

I thought this was a very good article by Challies.  Your thoughts?

Posts 8666
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 6:43 AM

JOSHUA DAVIS:
Your thoughts?

Tim did a very nice job analyzing the comparisons between print, Kindle, and Logos in terms of utility and price differential.

His considerations of format stability were enlightening and fair as well.

All in all, a good article. In a way it's interesting to consider that I'm ahead of Tim Challies curve for once. :-)

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 2938
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 7:03 AM

Great articled.  I made the plunge. and most of my theological library is in Logos format.  No regrets about that.  That will remain so for commentaries band reference bookie, as long as they are available in Logos.

However, for no reference material - books I want to read cover to cover - I now buy at the best price, whether Kindle, epub, or paper 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 7:52 AM

I like his point that each new book in Logos increases the usefulness of earlier purchases. Very true. The comparison to adding memory to a computer is apt.  'Logos' really IS new territory for the relgious minded.  I never imagined 'Logos' in my younger Bible-college days.

But like Michael, though, 'cover to cover' now is PaperWhite. It's a pain though (looking up notes, references, etc).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 8:02 AM

Denise:
But like Michael, though, 'cover to cover' now is PaperWhite. It's a pain though (looking up notes, references, etc).
This is also my experience with PW.  I like it for reading. I hate it for footnotes.

Hopefully the Old PW will get the popup footnotes which are part of the new PW.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 3760
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 8:07 AM

JOSHUA DAVIS:

http://www.challies.com/articles/is-it-time-to-move-to-logos

I thought this was a very good article by Challies.  Your thoughts?

Excellent article! As an IS geek-turned seminarian in 1994, I made the switch to Logos at version 1.6. Since that time (book purchases in all formats), I think it'd be fair to say that (even including required paper purchase for seminary that were not then in Logos format), I've spent $7 in Logos for every $1 in paper FOR RESEARCH books. For devotional purposes? I still prefer paper. For reading for pleasure? This year I've made the switch to cheapest format (usually Kindle, on sale for $0--there are just too many free ones to choose from to make it worth spending money).

For the last 10 years (since seminary), I've spent $10 on Logos for every $1 in print.

Very good article especially when it describes the challenges of digital (unstable format & even functionality, over the long term--some users still bemoan discontinued features; license vs. own; & commitment to the technology to run Logos, not just the resources).

But I'd offer that Bible studies & sermons--while I spend the same amount of time (whatever time is available Wink, so I can't claim any time savings for "preparing one study or sermon")--are far richer with Logos than they could ever be without. Ergo, it's worth the cost.

 

Grace & Peace,
Bill


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Nate Smoyer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 8:41 AM

Thomas: I saw your comments on Tim's blog. Way to represent for the Logos MVPs!

Everyone else: be sure to give Tim some feedback on his blog post. I'm sure he'd be open to suggestions for future posts (and of course everyone likes to hear "nice article").

Oh and I almost forgot, thanks for sharing, Josh.

Follow me on Twitter @NateSmoyer

 

Posts 8666
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 8:54 AM

Nathan Smoyer:
Thomas: I saw your comments on Tim's blog. Way to represent for the Logos MVPs!
Thank you. Embarrassed

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 837
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 10:46 AM

I found it interesting how he examined Quality v. Quantity when building a Logos library.  Even though he raised some interesting points, I defy him (or anyone else for that matter) to define the following terms in his article:

1) "Junk" resources

2) "Excellent" resources

3) "Great" commentaries

4) "Mediocre" commentaries

Of course, the answer lies in how each person fills those highly ambiguous terms with meaning.  If I could borrow from Phil Johnson ... only me and my dog agree completely on the correct definitions.

Nevertheless, I think his suggestion to consider buying small and then adding "quality" resources as opposed to purchasing the mega-resourced-covering-all the-theological-bases base package is worth some reflection. 

To that end, I think Logos would be well served by adding small, highly focused, theological and/or denominational base packages. 

I would also welcome some sort of a trade-in program for some of the stinkers in my library (yes, I know that many would not be worth much because they were part of a large collection(s) originally, but still, even if they are only worth a couple of pennies in trade, they are more valuable being applied toward another resource that I can more profitably use).

 

JRS has left the building.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 11:21 AM

JRS:
To that end, I think Logos would be well served by adding small, highly focused, theological and/or denominational base packages. 

Are you aware of the bundles Logos provides

See http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=bundle+s&start=15 for some of these (these are the "Small" ones but they come in various sizes)

I don't know if there is a better way to access them on the website.

Posts 159
David Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 11:22 AM

Well-written, interesting, thought-provoking and balanced. As for myself, I'm a committed Logos man as far as my library is concerned. I also have quite a few theological books on Kindle (when not available in Logos), plus a small number of 'real' books on my shelf—I recently donated the majority (around 1200) of my 'real' theological books to a Bible school library.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 11:36 AM

JRS seems pretty defiant. 

But the idea of targeted bundles is a very good one. Especially in combination with iPad/tablet use.

Just to illustrate, a Church of Christ bundle that you could point to for fellow members would be REALLY good. I picked on the COC only because they're pretty specific.  Or similarly have one for Southern Baptist, etc. I'd assume one would have to ignore variation in the denomination itself.  Grit ones theogical teeth a bit.

But it SURE would ease the 'recommending' process for friends: iPad > Logos Package > done.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 837
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 11:52 AM

Graham Criddle:

Are you aware of the bundles Logos provides

See http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=bundle+s&start=15 for some of these (these are the "Small" ones but they come in various sizes)

I don't know if there is a better way to access them on the website.

I'll try it again ... my first response didn't post.

Thank you, Graham.  I wasn't really aware of them, per se, or else I had forgotten about them.  It's hard to keep up with everything Logos is doing!

 

Denise:

... Grit ones theogical teeth a bit ...

I don't advise it ... you'll wind up needing root canals and crowns.  Wink

JRS has left the building.

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Gabe Martini (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 5:44 PM

JRS:

I think Logos would be well served by adding small, highly focused, theological and/or denominational base packages.

Great idea! Smile

Product Department Manager
Faithlife

Posts 5321
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2013 6:14 PM

BillS:

Very good article especially when it describes the challenges of digital (unstable format & even functionality, over the long term--some users still bemoan discontinued features; license vs. own; & commitment to the technology to run Logos, not just the resources).

This is the last of my issues. I don;t think Logos is going anywhere and if they went out of business tomorrow.. If that happened I am sure that i could continue using it in a virtual machine till computers cease to exist. I have the New Oxford Annotated Reference Library that I still use and a virtual machine for it and a few other older mac Bible programs.

-Dan

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2013 5:41 AM

I appreciated reading the article too. Thanks for bringing it to our attention Joshua.

One thing that was a bit misleading to me was his comparison of costs. Here is what he said about the Pillar Commentary series:

If you want the 14 commentaries in the Pillar New Testament series (an excellent investment as you build a library around quality) you will pay $497.25 for the Logos editions or $461.92 for the printed editions (at Westminster Books).

It is true that this is the regular price but getting this series in an upgrade or on special is a very real option which many of us have done. This is not only true of this series but many others. That's why I'm such a believer in being patient for sales and fully participating in Community Pricing.

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Posts 171
Adam Rao | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2013 9:58 AM

I've already switched from paper to Logos for reference works except for my Old Testament Library and New Testament Library commentaries and my Abingdon products (including The New Interpreter's Bible, The New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, Abingdon OT Commentaries, Abingdon NT Commentaries). (There are a few others on my shelf as well: Dan Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics because it's not available separately yet; Philip Comfort's NT Text and Translation Commentary; my New Oxford Annotated Bible; etc.)

Logos is so close to providing pretty much everything I want and need. Split up a few bundles here and there (Sacra Pagina, for example); add OTL/NTL and the Abingdon products; and, voila – a digital library instead of a paper library.

One can hope, right?

Posts 408
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2013 4:12 PM

Good article, but he fails to mention that Logos also has discounts.  I didn't pay nearly the price for the PNTC that he quotes. If I recall correctly, it was at least $100 less than his print price. 

I've been a Logos user since July 12, 2006 and in that time I've accumulated nearly 5,500 resources (granted, about 1,200 are Persus books), but I honestly don't think I'll ever abandon print completely.  I prefer to "read" in print and "research" digitally. 

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 22 2013 10:11 AM

Erik:
I prefer to "read" in print and "research" digitally. 

Same here.

I like the fact that the author stated that we should focus on quality over quantity.  What Jim stated is what I did - I started with the OL package and purchased the books that I knew I wanted and used.

Posts 693
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 23 2013 9:34 AM

I thought I was fully on the path to shucking paper books for an all digital library, but then last week the local Christian coffee shop decided to sell out their book inventory at a 75% discount. It... was... too... good... a... deal... to... pass... up... Indifferent

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