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Jeffrey Willis | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Nov 6 2013 2:52 PM

Just curious but why doesn't logos offer AA publications? As I understand these are God (higher power) based. Admittedly I haven't read these books but have read excerpts and other things indicating God and Jesus are the foundation of recovery. Never been to an AA meeting either. Comments?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 6 2013 3:00 PM

Jeffrey Willis:
Just curious but why doesn't logos offer AA publications? As I understand these are God (higher power) based.

There are more "higher power" resources/books in the world that are NOT in Logos than those that are. 

Jeffrey Willis:
Admittedly I haven't read these books but have read excerpts and other things indicating God and Jesus are the foundation of recovery. Never been to an AA meeting either.

It would only make sense to include these resources if there were a market for them. 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 6 2013 3:06 PM

Jeffrey Willis:
Just curious but why doesn't logos offer AA publications?

I would like to see a collection of 12 step books in Logos. 

  • Alcoholics Anonymous
  • Emotions Anonymous
  • Narcotics Anonymous
  • any others?

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Jeffrey Willis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 6 2013 3:18 PM

Agreed but seeing as how one hits rock bottom with any addiction, and then turn to God (for the most part) for help, it would make sense for God related recovery programs in print to be offered by Logos. This assumes Logos has the rights to "electronocize" the books in question.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 6 2013 4:03 PM

Tyndale's Recovery Bible is a good one to add too...

Touchstone's devotional for men is a good one to think of too..

-Dan

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JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 6 2013 4:06 PM

It may seem controversial to some but I do not think AA books belong here.

They settle for a "higher power" rather than God Almighty.

God bless all those in recovery, however.  I will always be a recovering redeemed sinner.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 6 2013 4:10 PM

The Life Recovery Bible NLT - Tyndale House Publishers

Touchstones -- Hazelden 

I don't know of a lot of these the Bible is one for sure... I know that touchstones is not necessarily always Christian friendly but know of more than one Christian friend in various 12 steps who found it very helpful.

-Dan

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 6 2013 5:08 PM

JoshInRI:
They settle for a "higher power" rather than God Almighty

Didn't the original AA book say "God" instead of "Higher Power"? I don't know for sure. Also, wouldn't the original be in the public domain by now?

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 7 2013 2:15 AM

I respect what you are saying, but don't necessarily agree it is a reason not to have them available in Logos.  I would much rather see them refer to God and if older versions were available that did refer to God then those would be my preference.  They could be valuable for those involved in supporting or counseling someone working through an addiction either as a reference or if that person is participating in the actual program.  The person being hepled may not be a Christian and if they are not yet at are at a point of discussing God should we exclude helping them.  If for instance I had a friend who was not a Christian and not yet ready to bring God into mix gh, I'd value having these resources in Logos regardless of whether they refer to God or a higher power.  For those who feel strongly about the issue you raise, they don't have to add them to their library.

JoshInRI:

It may seem controversial to some but I do not think AA books belong here.

They settle for a "higher power" rather than God Almighty.

God bless all those in recovery, however.  I will always be a recovering redeemed sinner.

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 7 2013 5:59 AM

Disciple of Christ:

I respect what you are saying, but don't necessarily agree it is a reason not to have them available in Logos.  I would much rather see them refer to God and if older versions were available that did refer to God then those would be my preference.  They could be valuable for those involved in supporting or counseling someone working through an addiction either as a reference or if that person is participating in the actual program.  The person being hepled may not be a Christian and if they are not yet at are at a point of discussing God should we exclude helping them.  If for instance I had a friend who was not a Christian and not yet ready to bring God into mix gh, I'd value having these resources in Logos regardless of whether they refer to God or a higher power.  For those who feel strongly about the issue you raise, they don't have to add them to their library.

JoshInRI:

It may seem controversial to some but I do not think AA books belong here.

They settle for a "higher power" rather than God Almighty.

God bless all those in recovery, however.  I will always be a recovering redeemed sinner.



We have this, this, this, and so on. This is not a complaint, from an apologetics stand point its great to have primary religious texts from outside Christendom. However in light of those outright non-christian books, why not an AA book that calls upon a higher power? Its less "dangerous" than the bhagavad ghita, the book of mormon, or koran - all of which exist in our Logos ecosystem.

Its not as though Logos targets people who do not already know where they stand, and in so doing would make the substitution in their own minds that their higher power is God. Were they to generate a Bible study, or a group based loosely around the 12 steps, then I am sure they would be capable of substituting higher power for God when they make their presentation, and on any hand outs they might make.

Lets face it, the standard logos user is more likely to be looking for a product like this to help others, than to seek help for themselves (though the latter is a possibility in this day and age).

All that said, I would prefer the older version that says "God" instead of higher power. Or better - a version that says "Jesus Christ". Why not pull in the public domain version, update it in house from a distinctly christian world view, and publish it through the in house brand?

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 7 2013 12:25 PM

JoshInRI:

It may seem controversial to some but I do not think AA books belong here.

They settle for a "higher power" rather than God Almighty.

Agreed, but to say more would not be appropriate on this forum.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 7 2013 2:17 PM

Super.Tramp:
Also, wouldn't the original be in the public domain by now?

I doubt it. Doesn't AA date from the Depression?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 7 2013 2:22 PM

JoshInRI:
It may seem controversial to some but I do not think AA books belong here.

I have no objection to Logos carrying them - I simply would not need them in my library. However, a few Logos users have sufficient frustrations to drive them to drink so maybe Logos ought to carry them.Wink

(It's okay. I already told myself to behave myselfBig Smile)

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 8 2013 9:18 AM

Jack Caviness:

JoshInRI:

It may seem controversial to some but I do not think AA books belong here.

They settle for a "higher power" rather than God Almighty.

Agreed, but to say more would not be appropriate on this forum.

There are two reasons I think these books can fit in at Logos;

  1. Many 12 step support groups meet in churches cross America.
  2. Many Logos resources do not acknowledge God. (Shakespeare, Harvard Classics, Perseus)

Logos Shakespeare related:

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Joshua Ellis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 8 2013 2:28 PM

The copyright status of the primary text for Alcoholics Anonymous (aka "the big book") is iffy, at least for the current (4th) edition. See http://anonpress.org/faq/239 for details. The core text (the first 164 pages) are generally considered to be in the public domain. The bulk of the book (some 400 additional pages) is a collection of testimonies, many of which are not in the public domain. That being said, the complete text of the book is easily located online, and it doesn't require too much effort to convert it into a Logos personal book.

There are a number of recovery-related books (Alcoholics Anonymous, The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, Narcotics Anonymous, 24 Hours A Day) that are available electronically in other formats. I think they'd make an excellent addition to Logos, along with Tyndale's Life Recovery Bible. . . the texts lend themselves to the type of study, highlighting, cross-referencing and note-taking that Logos excels at. I'm not sure how much demand there would be for them, though.

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