Why is Zondervan sending me advertisements for the "other guy"?

Page 2 of 2 (37 items) < Previous 1 2
This post has 36 Replies | 0 Followers

Posts 5846
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 1:58 PM

Yes Logos is a great library system, but OThers have been doing mobile a lot longer and their apps do have advantages over Logos offerings. For me though with a significant investment in my Logos I'm very happy with the Logos for iOS app. 

Dan you are correct though that OThers do offer a different approach than the Logos mobile apps that is advantageous on some key points, and we should respect their efforts.  

Dan Francis:

Super.Tramp:
The real question is. why cam't those Olive Tree people get it right?

Yes cheaper prices, a passage guide that works offline on mobile devices, Olive Tree has really screwed up...

-Dan

Posts 100
N/A | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 2:33 PM

I would not call lower prices on outdated resources from the '70s (Bible Dictionaries are outdated if more than 20 years old) a bargain! Anyone can do that!
Logos offers current research resources, most resources have extremely few spelling errors (sometimes it matters, see for example the Göttingen Septuagint, the A-company version has more spelling errors, the Logos version practically none).

Would You all please stop saying the full name of a competitor as it's against the forum rules to do that! I have reported all posts that do that.

Logos is continually adding datasets and reverse-interlinear(s)(-)(editing-possibilites) that competitors don't have, but if You don't want them You don't need to pay up.

Each company has a different approach to making money. There has to be differences simply because the size of the companies and especially the size of the stores.

Regular Logos prices may be high, but if You are ready to wait long enough most resources You need will go on a sale. And very often the regular prices of individual volumes get slightly lowered.

Logos direct sales representatives try hard to make everyone feel special.

Since very long Logos has a multiple language interface, and subsidiaries in some countries such as Sweden (www.libronix.se) and some Latin-American country but I don't remember which one. At least the Swedish one continually offers resources that are not listed in the logos.com -store, and somewhat recently (at the end of the Summer) sold the most recent Bible versions for 67% off the regular price.

Logos is not always fast to work hardwarewise and downloadwise, but usually the ones who post their problems in the Logos 5 forum have around a thousand, sometime many thousand books so no wonder syncing and updating are a little slow, and how fast do You think offline searches would be if there was no indexing, even if the programmers would have used a different approach altogether? Everyone who has studied some programming know that indexing is necessary in these type of environments and with the datavolumes.

Why should Logos as a company have waited much longer launching L4 just to see whether there would be some new, more convincing technology? In the '00s customers had the right to expect that Logos reworks the software, as paying for resources funds the software too. It would definitely have been wrong to let them keep waiting a lot longer. Books continued to be released in L3 format for years, so those who had low-end hardware were free to keep using L3 around the turn of the decade.

Didn't the programming department at Logos deserve a relief? The path chosen for L4 meant slightly easier programming.

You can always demand better but that would have meant Logos would have had to try MUCH harder at an early stage in the end of '00's to find splendid programmers that would have been able to work in a harder developing environment than the one Logos actually chose.

(The CEO Bob has admitted that at some stage Logos would have started reaping the benefits of a different programming path than the one chosen for L4.)

L2 Catholic new; Used: ODCC L5 Reformed Silver L6 Full Crossgrade; L6 Chinese Bronze new; L6 Ancient Literature Feature Expansion Collection (25 vols.) new, no dynamic pricing. Before packs had 100 books incl. AYBRL new

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 2:39 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Yes Logos is a great library system, but OThers have been doing mobile a lot longer and their apps do have advantages over Logos offerings. For me though with a significant investment in my Logos I'm very happy with the Logos for iOS app. 

Dan you are correct though that OThers do offer a different approach than the Logos mobile apps that is advantageous on some key points, and we should respect their efforts.  

Dan Francis:

Super.Tramp:
The real question is. why cam't those Olive Tree people get it right?

Yes cheaper prices, a passage guide that works offline on mobile devices, Olive Tree has really screwed up...

-Dan

I do really like the Logos and their iOS Bible app too. It is just sad when Logos (not saying through any fault of their own) is unable to have prices matching others. Logos has a fabulous selection of books and often have many good deals along with a good desktop app with all the bells and whistles (making it a bit bulky but still usable).

-Dan

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 2:57 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):
Logos is a great library system, but OThers have been doing mobile a lot longer and their apps do have advantages over Logos offerings.

If all you want is a little mobile app I guess OThers will do.

I chose Logos for the ever expanding ;library. I have not been disappointed. I can download my whole library (almost) to my iPad for mobile use.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 3:02 PM

NÖ:
Would You all please stop saying the full name of a competitor as it's against the forum rules to do that!

No, it isn't! Accordance, Bible Explorer, Biblesoft, BibleWorks, Laridian, Olive Tree, Quickverse, WORDsearch...

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 3:03 PM

Deleted (duplicate post,for some reason).

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 5846
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 3:12 PM

Super.Tramp:

Disciple of Christ (doc):
Logos is a great library system, but OThers have been doing mobile a lot longer and their apps do have advantages over Logos offerings.

If all you want is a little mobile app I guess OThers will do.

I chose Logos for the ever expanding ;library. I have not been disappointed. I can download my whole library (almost) to my iPad for mobile use.

I choose Logos too and am not disappointed as I already stated, but I respect OTher programs do things different and some of those things can be desirable in a mobile app. 

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 5:11 PM

NÖ:

I would not call lower prices on outdated resources from the '70s (Bible Dictionaries are outdated if more than 20 years old) a bargain! Anyone can do that!
Logos offers current research resources, most resources have extremely few spelling errors (sometimes it matters, see for example the Göttingen Septuagint, the A-company version has more spelling errors, the Logos version practically none).

If anyone can do that why not Logos? And with the strong lexical information in ISBE REV makes it still quite valuable. Are you are saying the only Bible Encyclopedia worth buying now is New Interpreter's Dictionary on the Bible, because Zondervans re-release is mostly the 1975 version with new pictures.

-Dan

Posts 100
N/A | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 2 2013 5:29 PM

Because every company has their own approach. It has to be like that:

Dan Francis:
If anyone can do that why not Logos?


Yes:

Dan Francis:
Are you are saying the only Bible Encyclopedia worth buying now is New Interpreter's Dictionary on the Bible, because Zondervans re-release is mostly the 1975 version with new pictures


fgh, do You just have a slightly bad feeling in the pit of Your stomach that You've invested in Logos resources instead of spreading it out over multiple softwares? Or what is it? You are aware that linking to any competitor, be it a software company or one that has printed matter also like AZ, from here, affects Google searches so that people are more likely to find those competitors first, especially if linking to specific books? I've noticed A WHOLE LOT OF linking to AZ.

L2 Catholic new; Used: ODCC L5 Reformed Silver L6 Full Crossgrade; L6 Chinese Bronze new; L6 Ancient Literature Feature Expansion Collection (25 vols.) new, no dynamic pricing. Before packs had 100 books incl. AYBRL new

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 5:16 AM

NÖ:
You are aware that linking to any competitor, be it a software company or one that has printed matter also like AZ, from here, affects Google searches

You never clicked my link, did you? I didn't link to any competitor, I linked to a post where Logos' Vice President says it's perfectly all right to mention competitors with full name, provided you do it for a good reason. You have no right to come here and tell people they can't do what Logos has explicitly said they can do. 

As for Amazon, people link to them in Suggestion posts because it helps Logos (and other users) to know exactly what book they're asking for. From what I understand Logos likes it when we do that. Like I said, it helps them.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 171
Adam Rao | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 7:42 AM

Regardless of the prices other companies offer on products, here's what I can't understand – How is it that OliveTree has the New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible and Logos doesn't? Same goes for the New English Translation of the Septuagint. Logos is supposed to be the major player in Bible software, so... Why aren't these resources available for Logos yet?

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 8:08 AM

Well, I've had the oil-producing tree software for years  (don't want to break the NO forum policy). It's true I have trouble passing an IQ test, but OliveTree's UI's mystify me.  I had the WM one, which was a bit nutty with two sets of icons to click on and a constant battle with OL fonts. I downloaded the PC version and I've never understood it at all (plus lost access to my OL books!).  I've repeatedly tried but I just don't get their strategy. Then I got their iOS one and it's not a whole lot better. 

I'm thoroughly happy with the Logos iOS one.  Unfortunately 'price' matters and so I shop Arizona (I assume that's what AZ means).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 11:23 AM

Adam Rao:

Regardless of the prices other companies offer on products, here's what I can't understand – How is it that OliveTree has the New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible and Logos doesn't? Same goes for the New English Translation of the Septuagint. Logos is supposed to be the major player in Bible software, so... Why aren't these resources available for Logos yet?

It is called priorities.... New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible was also released last month in Accordance. For all I know Logos may be working on the NIDB right now.... but historically until Logos gets enough preorders placed they don;t start work. Now this is not always the case the Westminster Bible Companion went from "Almost there" to a release date, showing that this was a series was being worked on, I was told in an email that in fact the New Interpreter's Bible is being worked on and should be ready shortly assuming nothing comes up to delay it (I am reminded of one CP item that had a release date years back only to realize that so much more work was needed on it it went back to CP, so the best dates can be very wrong). Logos business model works well for them but it has it's limitations, also at times there may be wrangling about publications we are unaware of, for example (THIS IS PURELY HYPOTHETICAL) Maybe oxford demands 25% royalties for item "A" but Logos model is to only pay 20% because it is the premiere Bible Software out there they feel justified in that by generating higher sales for the item, now maybe company A, O, or W are willing to pay it. Also in some cases a publishers may well say it is out in software B, we have no interest in pursuing it elsewhere (or software B has an exclusive contract on it).  Now I seriously doubt NETS is exclusive to OT and Logos has recently brought hundreds of OUP titles to Logos, why this was not one of them I can not say, anymore than I can say why the Oxford Bible Commentary was not brought back even though it is already in Logos format from a previous partnering. Logos is doing their best but can only do so much at a time, it also is often bound to not sell some of it's books below a certain price (occasionally a good deal comes along where it explicitly says the publisher has allowed us to offer this price for the 2 weeks). As was pointed out above sometimes some companies may get offered a much better deal for whatever reason.

-Dan

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 11:48 AM

fgh:

NÖ:
Would You all please stop saying the full name of a competitor as it's against the forum rules to do that!

No, it isn't! Accordance, Bible Explorer, Biblesoft, BibleWorks, Laridian, Olive Tree, Quickverse, WORDsearch...

My momma used to wash my mouth out for using words like that!Zip it!

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 11:59 AM

Adam Rao:
hy aren't these resources available for Logos yet?

I do not know how closely Logos adheres to their plan but we have heard Logos will not proceed with publishing a resource until there are enough orders to break even, So to over-simplify things; there are not sufficient orders to proceed on some titles. Either Olive Tree has more orders or they will publish these works on the projected sales rather than orders.

Sometimes I wish Logos would break the rules…...

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 100
N/A | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 1:22 PM

I'm sure this entire thread is not for a good reason:

fgh:
You never clicked my link, did you? I didn't link to any competitor, I linked to a post where Logos' Vice President says it's perfectly all right to mention competitors with full name, provided you do it for a good reason.



It surely doesn't help the sales. Most people who want a specific book may want to do a Google search. What You are saying leads, just like I said, to that people buy the book from AZ either as Kindle or printed matter, either directly from AZ or from an AZ Marketplace seller. Making links non-clickable is the preferable option:

fgh:
As for Amazon, people link to them in Suggestion posts because it helps Logos (and other users) to know exactly what book they're asking for. From what I understand Logos likes it when we do that. Like I said, it helps them.

L2 Catholic new; Used: ODCC L5 Reformed Silver L6 Full Crossgrade; L6 Chinese Bronze new; L6 Ancient Literature Feature Expansion Collection (25 vols.) new, no dynamic pricing. Before packs had 100 books incl. AYBRL new

Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 5:26 PM

Unix and fgh need to play nice.

Page 2 of 2 (37 items) < Previous 1 2 | RSS