I'm sorry to say it, but extremely disappointed in Logos software

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This post has 54 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 113
bryan jay | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 29 2013 12:16 AM

OK, after years of owning and using Logos software, I am completely exasperated.  This software has never worked well, and of all the software I have ever bought, it is by far the most expensive, the most problematic, and the most disappointing.

I have a brand new MacBook Air 1.8GHZ that should be plenty powerful to run Logos with no problem.  The software is sluggish and it crashes all the time.  I have followed the procedures on the support pages, but have seen no improvement.

I'm sorry to say this, but I will not recommend to anyone that they buy this software.  If people ask me about Logos (and they often do when they find out I have it) I will tell them not to buy it.  

These are not isolated or only recent issues.  I have been using Logos since Libronix and with each upgrade or new release I think things are going to be better and they never are.  I have thought many times of writing and expressing my frustration and have often just felt that others will do the complaining so I won't have to.  But today I decided to let my complaint be known.  If I were in management at Logos, I would want to know how customers feel about the software, so hopefully this will bring, if even in a small degree, some light on the fact that here is one more customer who does not like Logos software, as much as I would like to like it.

I will keep using it because of all the money, time, work, and resources that I have invested in my Logos installation.  I have years of notes that I can only access through Logos.  Most of my theological library is in Logos.  But I hope to never spend another dime on upgrades because I have zero confidence that this company can produce good software unless something radically changes.

sign me, one very frustrated customer

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 12:34 AM

I'm a PC user which is a quite different experience based on the forum posts of Mac users. It would be more helpful to Logos if you were a bit more specific about what causes your frustrations i.e. where should the put their resources if they wish to meet your expectations?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 113
bryan jay | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 12:52 AM

First of all, I can see from the number of your posts that you are not the type of user who minds investing time into thinking about and dealing with the software itself.  I think I am a more typical user in that I want to spend my time doing Bible study and reading books on Logos.  

My post was general because its purpose was not to diagnose the multiple problems with Logos software.  It is meant to let the engineers know that their Mac version does not work well in general.  I mentioned that the program bombs, but it would be more correct to say that it constantly hangs up.  This often occurs when I am trying to shut down my mac, or when I am bringing it out of sleep.  It also occurs almost every time that Logos tries to update itself.

The program is so slow that when I just need to find a Bible verse, I don't use Logos, but a website.  

My computer has probably already sent hundreds of reports to Logos, so I guess to be honest with you, I would like the engineers to address what those reports are reporting.  My expectations would be that the software could work more quickly and without hanging all the time, and that I could get it working well without having to spend money on an upgrade.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 6:50 AM

bryan, I have a lot of posts, but not as many as MJ. Plus, I agree with you, so I don't get a red star next to my cute picture.

I really don't think you'll have much trouble finding folks in the same predicament as yourself, on the Mac side. The Windows side works better, but Logos is a Windows company.

On the Mac side, there seems to be no-problem users, and then there's big-problem users. And Logos expresses little distinction on how to move the second group into the first. Many of the Mac developers for Logos live south of us across the Black mountains, and we kind of cringe at the criticism they take pretty regularly.

But bottom line, you shouldn't have to tinker with the software to try to use it. You're right.


Posts 113
bryan jay | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 9:04 AM

I understand that the mac software programmers are probably very nice people doing the best they can.  I just finally decided to post not to make people feel bad, but just to add my voice to what appears to be many mac users unsatisfied with Logos' mac version.  Like I said before, the company needs to hear this and develop a plan to improve the software.  Until it is actually improved, I will not recommend it.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 2:36 PM

bryan jay:
Until it is actually improved, I will not recommend it.

Perhaps you should try reading this post 547017.aspx. It addresses a coming fix for the type of problem you mentioned in one of your posts above. However, not all Mac users are unhappy with Logos. In fact, there are quite a few of us who report few problems. Those who experience problems have a choice—they can either complain that Logos does not fix the bugs in the Mac version, or they can submit bug reports and logs to become part of the solution.

I know that there are a few Mac users who are experiencing serious problems, but a series of posts saying this software is lousy, while refusing to provide specific information, helps no one.

Posts 5248
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 4:48 PM

bryan jay:

I understand that the mac software programmers are probably very nice people doing the best they can.  I just finally decided to post not to make people feel bad, but just to add my voice to what appears to be many mac users unsatisfied with Logos' mac version.  Like I said before, the company needs to hear this and develop a plan to improve the software.  Until it is actually improved, I will not recommend it.

As a long time mac user and mac Logos user (since Libronix 3.0 under virtual pc, right up to Logos 5 today). Now I did like the speed and the good mac interface of Libronix mac 1.2.2  but I am happy to have the power of Logos 5.0. Logos 4, for me anyway, was virtually nothing but disappointment, but I am doing quite well with 5. I am sorry to hear you are not happy but I do believe you are in the minority... It may well be a sizeable minority, but I think the majority of Mac Users are happy. I can appreciate your not recommending it, indeed I am a fan of Accordance due to it's speed and stability, but I can say I would not have a problem recommending Logos myself., I would encourage people to look at both applications and decide for themselves which will serve them best.

-Dan 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 5:58 PM

bryan jay:
My post was general because its purpose was not to diagnose the multiple problems with Logos software.  It is meant to let the engineers know that their Mac version does not work well in general.

What are the top three Logos items that generally need improvement on OS X ?

bryan jay:
Until it is actually improved, I will not recommend it.

Please elaborate on your top three irritants for using Logos 5 ?

Thankful for many Logos 5 improvements on OS X:

Full Screen => Logos 4 Mac Enhancements

Substantial Feature Parity => Improve Logos 4 Mac Feature Parity with PC

Dreaming about more, especially menu response => Improve Logos 4 Menu Responsiveness (longer than a second always feels slow to a human) and color customization along with completing accessibility for blind users:

=> Complete Access for blind users of Screen-reading Software

=> Allow each pane to have an individual background color 

=> Make hyperlink color more distinguishable from black and/or allow user to customize it

bryan jay:
The program is so slow that when I just need to find a Bible verse, I don't use Logos, but a website.  

Thankful for Logos Bible Book abbreviations => https://www.logos.com/support/windows/L4/abbreviations that can quickly navigate to a Bible verse.  Also Thankful for shortcuts so one click in Logos opens a Bible.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 6:37 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
What are the top three Logos items that generally need improvement on OS X ?

How about we keep things simple for Logos and just have two items instead of three: speed and stability. The issues are not nebulous or mysterious, they are experienced by most Mac users of Logos. Surely Logos knows the problems. They have been ongoing throughout the life of Logos on the Mac. From time to time things improve a little, and at times it degrades again. Back and forth. Very, very annoying.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 9:05 PM

Chris Roberts:
How about we keep things simple for Logos and just have two items instead of three: speed and stability.

Specifically, what are the slow things that adversely affect Logos use ?

Apologies: simple list of two items "speed and stability" translates to overall goals that Logos already has without providing insight to real world woes and anguish.

What's irritating about Logos 5 ?

For example, search has a menu to choose from Entire Library, Open Resources, Collections, and Series, which typically takes more than a second to appear.

A number of color combinations are difficult to read due to poor contrast: e.g. black or blue text on grey background.  Dreaming of customizable Logos color themes (similar to Windows personalization).  Also would like a command to quickly reset colors to default values.

Text size for Bible verse entry does not scale with resource setting so quick entry is unreadable while typing and pop-up text does not match resource text size.

When resources are downloading, can click X to close message at 1 % complete, but notify message across application reappears at 2 % complete.  Irony: notify message is easy to read.

Logos 5.2 algorithm for placement of new tabs when opening a resource seems a bit scatter-brained (several times have wished for setting to open search results in this panel).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 142
David Medina | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 29 2013 11:22 PM

I am sorry to hear about your problems. But my experience is exactly the opposite. I couldn't be happier.

While Logos is far from perfect - no software is - it is incredible how powerful, versatile and useful it is. Just to think the amount of information I have available and able to search almost instantly with results that actually help me to dig deeper… it blows me away.

I run Logos in a 2006 MAC Pro, a 7 years old computer running Lion, which is starting to show its age. Yet, Logos runs fine. I hardly have any crashes (every software I have ever owned - and I have been working in computers since 1979 - will experience crashes.)

I am not saying any of these to trivialize or negate your experience, but just to show you that your experience can be much better and that maybe you should contact support and have them help you. Computers are very complex machine and sometime we blame the software when it could be a hardware of another software causing a conflict.

As Dan mentioned, there are alternatives to Logos if you find that you cannot live with it. Accordance is one that while it lacks the sophistication of Logos 5, it is very good stable and fast. Yet, my favorite and top recommendation is Logos 5. 

I just hope it gets solve soon and you can enjoy the wonderful benefits of Logos 5. 

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 30 2013 12:43 AM

Dear Bryan Jay: You are not alone and, you are not wrong.

There have been times I just wanted my money back, this week is one of them-smile.

At other times, Logos runs "usably" on my mac. The iPhone/ipad apps are useless to me.

You are correct, you will not find any other mainstream program that is written for a mac that runs this inconsistently and/or poorly.
Logos is a Windows program ported to OSX , it is not written "for" OSX, that why we Mac folk find ourselves with a different experience than we are used to.

That said, at times, during some versions, it works decently, but you can never tell what the next update will do to it, thus, don't be an early adopter of the updates.

Suggestions:

1. Turn Auto-update off

2. Turn off all internet access to Logos.

3. log-in "offline".

4. repair permissions on your mac.

5. only allow yourself resource updates , do not get software updates until you see if they are working for most mac users, sometimes you have to skip a version.

These steps, given to me by others here on the forums, have helped me greatly in avoiding downtime.

Generally, I can do my work, not quickly, not smoothly, but functionally.

Hope this helps at least a small bit.

Posts 737
Armin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 30 2013 1:59 AM

As I mentioned in various other posts, I recently switched from Windows to Mac and am shocked at the difference. On Windows, Logos was fast and stable. It rarely crashed for me and I was a very happy customer. But my experience with Logos on Mac is the complete opposite: It is the buggiest software I have used in a long time, if not THE buggiest ever. I don't recall having been able to use Logos for 30 mins without crash. I posted many logs on this forum but since I never hear back from Logos, I wonder if they read them. It really is frustrating.

My problem, the endless sync-wheel-spin-CPU-hog crash, seems to be better if I run Logos without the Internet. However, I like the mobile Apps so to keep things synced, I need to start Logos on Mac three times for every study that I do: 1) start Logos with Internet and let the initial sync finish before closing it, 2) start Logos without Internet to do my study and close it at the end, 3) start logos with Internet to let it sync. 

I am contemplating installing a Windows environment on my Mac and run Logos on Windows. 

Armin

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 30 2013 2:09 AM

Dear Armin: Just call logos tech support. Cant wait in hope a Logos employee reads your posts and calls you.

Just call them, do a screen share and, for the most part, they will fix your issues. 

You should not be crashing that often, this issue is very fixable.

I would not even try loading logs on the forums, just call logos, they will fix this issue, you will be much, much happier .

Grace and Peace,

Posts 570
HansK | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 30 2013 2:33 AM

I am very happy with Logos. I run Logos5 on a MBP 2010 with a SSD card and 8GB mem.

I have more thans 11.000 books installed.

Never had major problems with the program. I do Bible Study, but also my Language Studies with Logos.

However, I must confess I never use the notes in Logos, but I use an external program for note taking (Devonthink and TheBrain).

MacOS Sierra / Logos 7 Collector's Edition & All Base Packages / Logos Now

Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 30 2013 10:19 AM

bryan jay:
I have a brand new MacBook Air 1.8GHZ that should be plenty powerful to run Logos with no problem.  The software is sluggish and it crashes all the time.  I have followed the procedures on the support pages, but have seen no improvement.

I have a "cheap" 400 dollar Toshiba satellite with logos installed on an external Seagate hard drive, Diamond base package with many additional resources has NEVER crashed or had any problems.

Posts 737
Armin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 3 2013 3:07 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

Just call them, do a screen share and, for the most part, they will fix your issues. 

I am currently traveling in a very different timezone so I don't get a chance to call Logos. However, I wonder what the conversation with Logos might look like if I called as the crash cannot be reproduced consistently. It most-likely won't crash when I call them. In another thread, Brad from Logos asked me to post logs. I did that but never heard back.

Armin

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2013 3:23 AM

Armin:
In another thread, Brad from Logos asked me to post logs. I did that but never heard back.

I cannot think of an excuse for this, so I sent an email to Logos stating this opinion.

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2013 6:42 AM
Why have I always wanted to sheer away from Macs?
Posts 10123
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 4 2013 7:40 AM

Bootjack ... it's not even the weekend yet.

But I'd agree. My little iPod was driving me crazy giving me no problems. Then I expanded my stable with a iPad Mini yesterday.  I was expecting mucho work but iTunes moved my little iPod over to my little iPad with narry a headache. Boy was I steamed.

What's even worse, is my new iPad Mini has my 1690's Go game at the exact position I left it on my iPod.  I just dream of the old MS days when headaches were real headaches!

I wonder if Mac people aren't aware they're supposed to be eternally beta testing when confronted with MS software.


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