Highlighting Request: The old circle and arrow trick

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Dec 24 2009 8:34 AM

I had requested this way back in the early beta days, but today seemed a good day to bring it out for public consumption and feedback....

I have a feeling this would work best in conjunction with the reverse interlinears but even so one of the most used markups in my paper bible is the old "Circle to arrow" markup.  (see the image).

I can conceive of this markup being tied to (a) the surface text as well as (b) the underlying interlinear text.  So that it would be available in all interlinear based bibles, including Greek/Hebrew.

It's not a very good example of how I would use the markup, but it demonstrates the markup.

Problem is there would need to be a way to mark "origin" and then "destination".  This would definitely be a two step markup procedure.

  1. Highlight "not"
  2. Click Markup (or ctrl+k if last used)
  3. Highlight "Double tongued"
  4. Click something else or perhaps Ctrl+k to finish the markup.
  5. Repeat for each additional arrow destination(?).

In that same thread, Bob responded...

Bob Pritchett:
I like this, but it creates some difficult UI problems.    It's "modal". Once you select the origin, you're in a "mode" where the next highlight is destination. How do you know you're in the mode? How do you get out of it if you want to cancel? How do we represent the origin if you haven't picked a destination? How do you use the same origin three times, as in your example -- by repeatedly selecting destination? Do we need to have a standard markup key, but when your markup was a "two-parter", use a different markup key for a destination?    What if you do two arrows from your origin, then come back tomorrow and want to add a third destination. How do you reselect the origin?    These aren't unsolvable problems, but they are complicated and do need answers. We can work on them, but I'd also love to hear your suggestions....
Finally, I attempted an answer of sorts to the UI problems....

 

Bob Pritchett:
I like this, but it creates some difficult UI problems.

I agree, but I think a workable sollution can be had.  I do not have a problem with it being Modal.  In know that you're trying to get away from that in L4 but this makes great sense to me. 

Here's a possible non-modal setup (for a related example see how Jing draws arrows).

  1. Select the circle and arrow markup from the list
  2. Click the first word which should have the circle around it (The circle appears and the pointer changes to an arrow)
  3. Drag (stay clicked)  the arrow to it's destination word.  The arrow should "snap" to each word it contacts so that it's easy to lock it in by simply releasing the drag.

That solution is not modal but has a few faults:

  • It's limited to ONE word, not a phrase, and sometimes I'm going to want phrases - on one or both sides of the link.
  • if the areas I want to connect are not  in the same screen, I have to be able to scroll - that's not easy.  It can work with a wheel mouse, but what about a touchpad? 
  • There is no cancel, it's just like every other markup.  You can highlight it and remove it though, just like any other markup.
  • It's also limited to only one arrow per markup.  So multiple arrows as my other example shows would require doing this three times.  IMHO that's not really a burden for me.

A modal solution could solve some of those faults but potentially introduces some additional complexity from the user's standpoint.

  1. Select the circle and arrow markup from the list
  2. Click the first word and drag to highlight the word or phrase that should be circled.
  3. The UI will "fade" or an overlay would appear, perhaps a tooltip that says, "click on arrow destination or ESC to quit"
  4. ESC would cancel the process.
  5. now you can scroll as far as you want (gen to rev if you care to) to locate the next phrase.  Note that when hovering over any text the arrow should appear to follow your progress as the above modeless method indicates.
  6. Click and drag over the destination word/phrase to anchor the arrow.
  7. the UI remains faded and says, "point to more text and ESC when finished." and continues to show another arrow.  In this manner you can perform a link like the one I've shown with three arrows.

Some observations to the modal method:

  • It's modal and L4 isn't really like that.  (But I think it's clear enough for even aunt Gertrude).
  • It works with touchpads.
  • um... I wish I could think of something else to say - but don't worry someone will.

Further suggestions:

  • The arrows should have a slight curve which "tries" to stay out of the way of other text.
  • The arrows should have some translucence so they don't block text.
  • I'm not concerned perhaps about varying line widths but the addition of a few colors would be great, red, yellow, green, puce (ok, well maybe not puce).  
  • If this was tied to interlinear data than the same arrows would appear in every version with interlinear data (ESV, NA27, NASB etc.)  That would be useful.

I can "see" both of these examples in my head and like them both, I wish I could figure out how to do a video mockup, but alas I'm left hoping my description is clear enough.

 

 

 

All of that presented, I'm bringing it here in hopes that the collective minds might come up with a good solution. 

Ideas?  Comments?

 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2009 9:10 AM

OK, I went ahead and created a video mock-up of this in action.  This is on screen magic, not the real program working, so don't ask where this feature is in L4 Wink

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2009 12:17 PM

Thomas Black:
Ideas?  Comments?

I like the idea. However, it is sufficiently unlike the other markup behaviors that I am not certain that Logos should go other without a series of similar needs. I say this because the sentence diagram tool provides an option to visually present the same information. That being said, I must also admit to not being a major user of Bible markups.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 237
Rick Ratzlaff | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 19 2010 6:58 AM

I'm not a programer but seems the MS Office suite is simply capable of this sort of thing where the line becomes an object of itself.

I'm just an unlearned layman who would love this trick on bible text as I study and read just like I do in my own personal old fasioned paper copie. Smile

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 6 2010 7:05 AM

Bump.  I really wanted this markup again today.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 6 2010 7:09 AM

Thomas Black:

Bump.  I really wanted this markup again today.

i liked it when you first mentioned it.  i just didn't add my comment.  I thought the same thing as MJ, regarding diagramming, but my visual orientation likes your suggestion better: the concept sticks better with me.  Also, if I am just reading and marking up, I don't want to to a diagram.  I just want to mark things up that I notice.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 6 2010 2:12 PM

Dan DeVilder:
Also, if I am just reading and marking up, I don't want to to a diagram.  I just want to mark things up that I notice.

I certainly can be easily convinced.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3780
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 6 2010 2:24 PM

I like it - as a Tablet PC user, I do this within OneNote regularly.  It would be nice to have it built into LOGOS.  One question to be addressed is whether it would carry over to parallel resources.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 6 2010 3:16 PM

MJ. Smith:

Dan DeVilder:
Also, if I am just reading and marking up, I don't want to to a diagram.  I just want to mark things up that I notice.

I certainly can be easily convinced

Gosh, Martha, that was easy.  Stick out tongue

 

.  . . i guess you didn't say you were convinced. . .  Embarrassed

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 2759
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 6 2010 3:52 PM

interesting idea, not sure I would use it.. but as pretty as a texas bluebonnet in spring, and just as well presented

this is how I currently deal with these type passages, maybe not as pretty as your lines, but may give you an idea..

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 6 2010 4:30 PM

DominicM:

this is how I currently deal with these type passages, maybe not as pretty as your lines, but may give you an idea..

I like this! Thanks for the idea.

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 3:59 AM

Not a bad workaround Dominic.  I may have to whip up something slightly less hard on my eyes though... :-)

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 4:11 AM

Thomas Black:

I may have to whip up something slightly less hard on my eyes though... :-)

I could help you with that :-)

Posts 2759
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 11:38 AM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! not the lime green again... Stick out tongue even your halo is feeling sick..

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 5744
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 12:21 PM

DominicM:

interesting idea, not sure I would use it.. but as pretty as a texas bluebonnet in spring, and just as well presented

this is how I currently deal with these type passages, maybe not as pretty as your lines, but may give you an idea..

Good compromise (well maybe not the colours), but would like to be able to do the old circle and arrow trick.  Diagramming tool could be used if I was doing something specific but not best option for general reading and markup

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 12:53 PM

DominicM:
your halo

 

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

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DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 7 2010 1:16 PM

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 1826
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 30 2011 11:00 AM

Bumping this up.

Thomas or any others, have you found a way that satisfies your needs on this type of mark-up? I use this in my paper Bible and was thinking today it would be nice to do in Logos 4, although I know that Logos has said it would probably be too difficult.

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 30 2011 6:38 PM

Rick, 

I have used Dominic's work around more than once - but I still want the ol' circle and arrow trick.

<party type="pity">

(sigh)  I'm sure it's not to be - alas for me - alas for me.

</party>

 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 1826
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 30 2011 10:46 PM

Thank you Thomas.

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