Highlighting Request: The old circle and arrow trick

I had requested this way back in the early beta days, but today seemed a good day to bring it out for public consumption and feedback....

I have a feeling this would work best in conjunction with the reverse
interlinears but even so one of the most used markups in my paper bible
is the old "Circle to arrow" markup. (see the image).

I can conceive of this markup being tied to (a) the surface text as well as (b) the underlying interlinear text. So that it would be available in all interlinear based bibles, including Greek/Hebrew.

It's not a very good example of how I would use the markup, but it demonstrates the markup.

Problem is there would need to be a way to mark "origin" and then
"destination". This would definitely be a two step markup procedure.

Highlight "not"
Click Markup (or ctrl+k if last used)
Highlight "Double tongued"
Click something else or perhaps Ctrl+k to finish the markup.
Repeat for each additional arrow destination(?).

In that same thread, Bob responded...

I like this, but it creates some difficult UI problems. It's "modal". Once you select the origin, you're in a "mode" where the next highlight is destination. How do you know you're in the mode? How do you get out of it if you want to cancel? How do we represent the origin if you haven't picked a destination? How do you use the same origin three times, as in your example -- by repeatedly selecting destination? Do we need to have a standard markup key, but when your markup was a "two-parter", use a different markup key for a destination? What if you do two arrows from your origin, then come back tomorrow and want to add a third destination. How do you reselect the origin? These aren't unsolvable problems, but they are complicated and do need answers. We can work on them, but I'd also love to hear your suggestions....

Finally, I attempted an answer of sorts to the UI problems....

I like this, but it creates some difficult UI problems.

I agree, but I think a workable sollution can be had. I do not have
a problem with it being Modal. In know that you're trying to get away
from that in L4 but this makes great sense to me.

Here's a possible non-modal setup (for a related example see how Jing draws arrows).

Select the circle and arrow markup from the list
Click the first word which should have the circle around it (The circle appears and the pointer changes to an arrow)
Drag (stay clicked) the arrow to it's destination word. The arrow
should "snap" to each word it contacts so that it's easy to lock it in
by simply releasing the drag.

That solution is not modal but has a few faults:

It's limited to ONE word, not a phrase, and sometimes I'm going to want phrases - on one or both sides of the link.
if the areas I want to connect are not in the same screen, I have
to be able to scroll - that's not easy. It can work with a wheel
mouse, but what about a touchpad?
There is no cancel, it's just like every other markup. You can highlight it and remove it though, just like any other markup.
It's also limited to only one arrow per markup. So multiple arrows
as my other example shows would require doing this three times. IMHO
that's not really a burden for me.

A modal solution could solve some of those faults but potentially
introduces some additional complexity from the user's standpoint.

Select the circle and arrow markup from the list
Click the first word and drag to highlight the word or phrase that should be circled.
The UI will "fade" or an overlay would appear, perhaps a tooltip that says, "click on arrow destination or ESC to quit"
ESC would cancel the process.
now you can scroll as far as you want (gen to rev if you care to)
to locate the next phrase. Note that when hovering over any text the
arrow should appear to follow your progress as the above modeless method indicates.
Click and drag over the destination word/phrase to anchor the arrow.
the UI remains faded and says, "point to more text and ESC when
finished." and continues to show another arrow. In this manner you can
perform a link like the one I've shown with three arrows.

Some observations to the modal method:

It's modal and L4 isn't really like that. (But I think it's clear enough for even aunt Gertrude).
It works with touchpads.
um... I wish I could think of something else to say - but don't worry someone will.

Further suggestions:

The arrows should have a slight curve which "tries" to stay out of the way of other text.
The arrows should have some translucence so they don't block text.
I'm not concerned perhaps about varying line widths but the
addition of a few colors would be great, red, yellow, green, puce (ok,
well maybe not puce).
If this was tied to interlinear data than the same arrows would
appear in every version with interlinear data (ESV, NA27, NASB etc.)
That would be useful.

I can "see" both of these examples in my head and like them both, I
wish I could figure out how to do a video mockup, but alas I'm left
hoping my description is clear enough.

All of that presented, I'm bringing it here in hopes that the collective minds might come up with a good solution.

Ideas? Comments?

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Comments

TCBlack

OK, I went ahead and created a video mock-up of this in action. This is on screen magic, not the real program working, so don't ask where this feature is in L4 [;)]

0550.highlighterarrows.swf

MJ. Smith

Ideas? Comments?

I like the idea. However, it is sufficiently unlike the other markup behaviors that I am not certain that Logos should go other without a series of similar needs. I say this because the sentence diagram tool provides an option to visually present the same information. That being said, I must also admit to not being a major user of Bible markups.

Rick Ratzlaff

I'm not a programer but seems the MS Office suite is simply capable of this sort of thing where the line becomes an object of itself.

I'm just an unlearned layman who would love this trick on bible text as I study and read just like I do in my own personal old fasioned paper copie. [:)]

TCBlack

Bump. I really wanted this markup again today.

Friedrich

Bump. I really wanted this markup again today.

i liked it when you first mentioned it. i just didn't add my comment. I thought the same thing as MJ, regarding diagramming, but my visual orientation likes your suggestion better: the concept sticks better with me. Also, if I am just reading and marking up, I don't want to to a diagram. I just want to mark things up that I notice.

MJ. Smith

Also, if I am just reading and marking up, I don't want to to a diagram. I just want to mark things up that I notice.

I certainly can be easily convinced.

Floyd Johnson

I like it - as a Tablet PC user, I do this within OneNote regularly. It would be nice to have it built into LOGOS. One question to be addressed is whether it would carry over to parallel resources.

Friedrich

Also, if I am just reading and marking up, I don't want to to a diagram. I just want to mark things up that I notice.

I certainly can be easily convinced

Gosh, Martha, that was easy. [:P]

. . . i guess you didn't say you were convinced. . . [:$]

Rick

Bumping this up.

Thomas or any others, have you found a way that satisfies your needs on this type of mark-up? I use this in my paper Bible and was thinking today it would be nice to do in Logos 4, although I know that Logos has said it would probably be too difficult.

TCBlack

Rick,

I have used Dominic's work around more than once - but I still want the ol' circle and arrow trick.

(sigh) I'm sure it's not to be - alas for me - alas for me.

</party>

Rick

Thank you Thomas.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

have you found a way that satisfies your needs on this type of mark-up?

Discourse analysis formats 5 bullet items in 1 Timothy 3:8, including bold emphasis:

Wiki Logos Resource Reviews links to => Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament review.

Keep Smiling [:)]

DMB

I think you guys are just dancing around the problem. In Logos (and the prior Libronix 3), an area highlighting is followed by a tool-action (e.g. copying, highlighting, etc). To a large degree, this follows the tradition of word processors, which in-turn go back to 'type'-writers and further back to printer type-blocks. The programming decision occurs very early in the design of the UI.

In the PDF software I use, the tool selection comes first, followed by whatever type of mouse or keyboard action that follows (highlighting to copy, drawing boxes, putting in a note, etc). What's even more fascinating is that 'somehow' they can allow text highlighting on images (an algorithm sits under the image logically calculating its position in the image). Of course, circles, lines, rectangles etc are 'easy-going'.

These PDFs represent many of the same resources that Logos offers, so its easy enough to compare. And both are 'free'. Plus the PDF seems to easily remember where all the markups occurred. I've never seen it screw up all my markings.

Logos4 does violate its interface rule (selecting a tool/F-key first), likely for pastors/teachers, to draw all over the image, but on another system layer. Again, here the UI is reversed, with the 'tool' first selected, followed by the action (drawing). And of course, nothing is retained, it being sort of a software kludge.

Therefore, to do a line/circle, one would most likely need an icon to first tell the software the proposed action. And that just isn't going to happen, since it dirties up the pretty interface. Even a zoom icon is absolutely verbotin.

spitzerpl

the way I would like Logos to address the circle-arrow feature of its paper ancestor is through screen shots. When I come to a place that I want "advanced notation" for I hit a button, like F8 at present. This locks the display and allows me to draw on it. This display gets saved and an indication comes up that there is an advanced notation screen shot available whenever the passage I am viewing contains some of the verses that were marked up.

Either that or have a "google map" like view of each book in my library. This view would have preset and unchangeable column widths and page sizes but could be scrolled around just like Google Maps could. freehand notes could be drawn on top of it that would lock in place on the map. In the regular display of a book you can jump to the "google map like" view through right click>Visual book Map. Actually, rather then creating a view for each book I would allow the user to do this to save space. So the user would go to "tools", select "Visual Book Editor" and then select "create a new book map." they would select the desired resource and algorithms would generate the book map. It would basically turn the entire book into one large picture that could be zoomed in and out of.

David Leventhal

Bump.

This would be a really nice enhancement.

- DPL

Christian Girl

We totally need this! [Y]